Spartanburg Off-Topic

[Spartan]

It's a shame that the HJ going to a pay-only model. I prefer the subscription model adopted by The State, The Charlotte Observer, and the New York Times where you get X number of free articles per month and then you are forced to subscribe if you want more. I recognize and respect that industry has to have a revenue source to survive. It used to be that everyone payed for their newspapers and it was just part of life. Local news seems less important to a lot of people, but for me personally I see value in it. What's frustrating is for people like me, who no longer live in town, it is a regular source of information from home. I only read 10 articles or so per month from the HJ. Maybe a few more during football season... but obviously that isn't worth paying $120/year.

[westsider28]

Actually, it mentions in the article that you get 5 free articles per month.  And it actually begins February 4.  (I must've been distracted when I wrote my last post)  I think local news is very valuable, but the H-J hasn't done a good enough job with that to be worth it to me.  If this change can somehow lead to improvements in their local coverage (beyond HS sports, which I'm not interested in), then I'd pay.  Until then, I suppose I'll just chose my articles to view wisely.

[westsider28]

Music on Main is moving to the grassy area at West Main and Spring Street (near the Herald-Journal & Morgan Square) this summer.  The City is hoping the new location will have better access to restaurants & bars (more of them here than Denny's Plaza area) and attract more people.  The time has also been changed to 5:30 - 8:30 pm (from 6-9pm).

 

H-J article

 

This should certainly help the restaurants around Morgan Square.  That grass area seems like an awkward location, but Denny's Plaza was always awkward, too.  Music on Main attendees often seem to be people who don't otherwise come downtown, so maybe this new location will encourage them to frequent DT more often.

[westsider28]

I found a very interesting article on the Greenville Journal website about downtown apartments the comparison between Greenville and Spartanburg.  They go into a bit of history behind why Greenville's ahead of us (Max Heller, primarily).  It talks about how there's 600 apartment units coming online in G-ville versus fewer than 50 here.  It talks about jobs being the driver for apartment construction in Greenville, and how we can't get anything going, despite high demand (students) and almost 100% occupancy of existing units.

 

Johnson Development says they haven't built any apartments downtown due to lack of walkability DT (questionable) and a "tax code [that] cuts big breaks to single-family home owners and taxes commercial properties at a much higher rate."  The article goes on the mention the "chicken and egg" problem with DT development, and basically concludes that we need more business development DT.

 

Anyway, give the article a read.  And what do you think about the issues it describes?

[roads-scholar]

I found a very interesting article on the Greenville Journal website about downtown apartments the comparison between Greenville and Spartanburg.  They go into a bit of history behind why Greenville's ahead of us (Max Heller, primarily).  It talks about how there's 600 apartment units coming online in G-ville versus fewer than 50 here.  It talks about jobs being the driver for apartment construction in Greenville, and how we can't get anything going, despite high demand (students) and almost 100% occupancy of existing units.

 

Johnson Development says they haven't built any apartments downtown due to lack of walkability DT (questionable) and a "tax code [that] cuts big breaks to single-family home owners and taxes commercial properties at a much higher rate."  The article goes on the mention the "chicken and egg" problem with DT development, and basically concludes that we need more business development DT.

 

Anyway, give the article a read.  And what do you think about the issues it describes?

I think the below quote pretty much sums things up:

 

"But students are not jobs, and Greenville’s booming apartment business

is a reflection of available jobs in the downtown area – plus the

amenities the city offers to those who choose to live in the heart of

town and pay the rents that kind of attraction can demand..."

[Spartan]

That article is a little disappointing but I'm not sure if it's because of the way it was written or the interviews with Spartanburg leaders themselves. Is the best they can say really "we'll catch up eventually" ?? Jobs will come?? What a defeatist attitude!!!

 

The issue is way more complicated that that author makes it out to be. It's just not a simple as Greenville did X and Spartanburg did Y.

 

This is what really bugs me: the article discusses Greenville's strategy of building around key landmarks. They made a wise decision to locate an urban hotel (the Hyatt) several blocks away from the Peace Center- thus forcing people to walk between the two. That worked well. Now look at Spartanburg's old strategy that basically copied Greenville's, but poorly. Look at our hotel (the Marriott). Do you notice anything different about it and the Hyatt? Sure it's a nice hotel, but it is not designed for pedestrians. What other landmarks have we developed? 10 years later we have the Chapman Cultural Center... but is that really a major draw for the hotel? Can people really walk between the two- of course they can but what is there to see a long the way? The Montgomory building? The landmark approach simply doesnt work in Spartanburg.

 

Spartanburg finally did something right, and I'm extremely disappointed that nobody picked up on it- particularly from our leaders. Spartanburg is focusing on the built environment to make it a walkable place. As more buildings are approved in downtown Spartanburg, they have to meet the new urban principles established by the Urban Code. This will put buildings on the streets and retail in those buildings- effectively expanding the "main street" feel to other locations. This is not a quick fix, but over time it will create a great downtown.

 

Finally, college students are a proven market. Look at Clemson as a prime example of the depth of a college market. What Spartanburg actually lacks is a major college. People who attend Wofford have to live on campus the entire time. Every other college has a small on-campus or campus-adjacent housing, or - more importantly - a commuter based population.

 

I don't pretend to know all the issues in surrounding development in Spartanburg, but I think there is definitely a market for an urban apartment product in downtown.

[Spartan]

Also, comparing Greenville to Charlotte may not be the most apt comparison as it relates to Spartanburg. Charlotte is a top 20 market and the scale of development happening here just isn't the same (ie: Spartanburg has 50 apartment units being developed, Greenville has 600, Charlotte has somewhere near 3000.

 

The one comparison you can make is that in all cases, a more urban product is by far the most popular product. If you look at some of the projects in Greenville's downtown or anywhere within about 4 miles of uptown Charlotte. So, perhaps that is what they mean by "it will eventually come" to Spartanburg.

[drexel]

This past Saturday night I spent the night at the Marriott because my wife had a group of  ‘girls’ visiting from out of town. I was pleasantly surprised that every restaurant and bar I walked to was crowded. Planned on trying the Back Porch for the first time, but too many people at the bar. Delaney’s and Main Street Pub both were packed with good bands. The Marriott was extremely nice and an exceptional staff. The negative part was that the Marriott is too expensive (for me) and the walk down Church Street sucks and feels unsafe. I think that the city needs to invest in streetscape improvements on Church Street. Still also believe that downtown can support a new limited service hotel; considering our colleges, new sports venues, (Middle Tyger softball complex, Upward’s volleyball complex), plus our event venues like the auditorium, Barnett Park, and Indigo Hall. An $80 a night Holiday Inn Express or Hampton Inn would be a good alternative.                      

[barkmenton]

Anyone hunting for a 1917 fixer-upper house deal in Converse Heights? A house on our street, Lucas Ct., just went up for sale. Here is the link:

 

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/488-Lucas-Ct-Spartanburg-SC-29302/11822908_zpid/

 

I am on a mission to help continue the revitalization of our street and would be elated if someone purchased this house and converted it to owner-occupied. My wife and I bought our house on Lucas exactly a year ago. If you are from Spartanburg and know Converse Heights, you may view Lucas Ct. as the redheaded stepchild of the neighborhood. Contrary to popular belief, we have found Lucas to be a delightful street and microcosm within Converse Heights; many of the houses have been renovated in the past 5 years, and most of the homes are owner-occupied. The people in the neighborhood are great, it is the closest street in Converse Heights to downtown (this house is exactly 1 mile from Morgan Square), about 400 yards from the YMCA, and we have several young families with children on the street.

 

Since Lucas is not a through street, we have very little traffic. I assume the house needs work, but at this price, it is probably a great candidate for a 203(k) loan which builds the cost of renovations into the mortgage.

 

If you know of any young folks looking to renovate a house, find a house in district 7 that doesn't break the bank, or find an affordable place in Converse Heights, PLEASE spread the word! I would be delighted to discuss the neighborhood and introduce you (or the interested party) to some of the wonderful people on this street.

[Sparkleman]

The fact that it is a 1 bathroom is a killer. Folks in the "Heights" want at the very least 2 baths.

[westsider28]

The City has recently updated its Food Truck Guidelines to include several city-owned, pilot program trial locations for food trucks.  Here's a city PDF with the locations (scroll down) and a Google Map I made of the locations.  I know the Neue Southern Food Truck was at the Hub City Farmers Market this past weekend (wish I hadn't been out of town), but I think that may have been just a one-time event.  Anyway, I hope to see some food trucks serving at these locations soon!

[Spartan]

I'm glad Spartanburg is finally catching up to the 8-ball here, though it's unfortunate that most of these locations are not going to be very conducive to business. We have food trucks all over Charlotte, and they are very popular as most of them have gourmet chefs and offer amazing food at fairly cheap prices. I hope this pilot process goes well and that they expand to more locations throughout the city. 

[westsider28]

Next year's city budget will have $200,000 earmarked for future parks, trails, or recreation centers.  Predictably, each City Councilperson would like to see the money spent on a project in their district.  Some of the possible projects mentioned were: a park on the westside (perhaps at the DT airport), finishing the football field and parking lot at CC Woodson (an NFL matching grant for that expires at the end of the year), an activity center at Stewart Park (planned, but cut from the original budget), and expanding our trail system.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the money spent on trails & greenways (since I'm a runner).  What do you all think?

[Sparkleman]

I'd like to see the rail trail extended further south and north but its going to require some thinking as the RR tracks are active once you get to Country Club Rd. The north direction could run towards Barnet park and beyond.

[roads-scholar]

Next year's city budget will have $200,000 earmarked for future parks, trails, or recreation centers.  Predictably, each City Councilperson would like to see the money spent on a project in their district.  Some of the possible projects mentioned were: a park on the westside (perhaps at the DT airport), finishing the football field and parking lot at CC Woodson (an NFL matching grant for that expires at the end of the year), an activity center at Stewart Park (planned, but cut from the original budget), and expanding our trail system.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the money spent on trails & greenways (since I'm a runner).  What do you all think?

A park at the downtown airport was proposed a few years ago,  Seems like a no brainer to me.  But so does expanding the trails system.

[westsider28]

Just a quick note: Google has finally added high-resolution Street View to ALL streets in Spartanburg!

 

The imagery is from September 2012.  Now you can see views like this and this and this (and so on).

[gman430]

Well, it finally happened. I moved to Spartanburg right near USC Upstate yesterday. I should be fully moved in by the end of this week.

[hub-city]

Welcome to Spartanburg gman!

[Spartan]

Welcome to Sparkle City!

[westsider28]

CH2M Hill has donated thousands of Lockwood Greene's historic architectural and engineering drawings of many Spartanburg buildings to the Headquarters Library!

 

City article (w/video)

H-J article

 

It's great to now have these drawings accessible to the public.  I'm definitely going to check them out!

[Jael]

Anyone here using nextdoor.com? It's kind of a mashup of features like FB, Craigslist and Angie's List but just for a neighborhood. It's free, and they will verify your address. We're using it in Hillbrook to track lost pets, complain about the poor quality of the speed bumps and share plumber/electrician/etc recommendations.

If your neighborhood isn't using it yet, consider starting it yourself so that you have control. If you're going to start one, drop me a message, and I'll send you my code that will get both of us a $50 Amazon gift certificate when your new site gets out of the pilot stage.

[westsider28]

While Googling for historic Spartanburg maps, I stumbled across this USC Library digital collection of Sanborn Fire & Insurance maps.  There are several maps of the City of Spartanburg dating between 1884 and 1923.  There are also maps of other county towns. 

 

I've already spend way too much time looking at them, comparing them to historical photos, and comparing them to current Google maps to see what still exists today.  The 1923 one has many familiar buildings, but I really liked the 1884 one, too.  It's amazing how much Spartanburg has changed over the years.  But anyway, I thought some of you might be interested in checking out these maps.

[roads-scholar]

While Googling for historic Spartanburg maps, I stumbled across this USC Library digital collection of Sanborn Fire & Insurance maps.  There are several maps of the City of Spartanburg dating between 1884 and 1923.  There are also maps of other county towns. 

 

I've already spend way too much time looking at them, comparing them to historical photos, and comparing them to current Google maps to see what still exists today.  The 1923 one has many familiar buildings, but I really liked the 1884 one, too.  It's amazing how much Spartanburg has changed over the years.  But anyway, I thought some of you might be interested in checking out these maps.

Love this information!  Thanks for passing it along.

[Spartan]

What's really interesting to me is how much the street network has evolved. Even though we may think of it as convoluted and confusing today, it was much, much worse 100 years ago. It's fascinating to me how Spartanburg evolved with basically no plan whatsoever. Many towns (ie: Greenville, Columbia) had a grid layout and some sense of order.

[westsider28]

I don't want to overload the DT Development thread, so I'll put this here.  The City just posted a photo on their Facebook page of newly-installed, pedestrian-scale wayfinding signage for dining options!  The signs are on the corners of W Main & Daniel Morgan, W Main & Spring, Main & Church, and E Main & Liberty.  They look awesome!  Love seeing these small improvements that help make our city more walkable and vibrant.