Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[Henry_Ryto]

I just moved from a military base, and I can tell you that I would not be caught dead on a bus, but a train is a whole different story. Trains are so much more reliable and they just have a whole different (better) feeling than a bus. I really think that LR would catch on on bases, but the only problem is security with checkpoints and such.

The two biggest reasons given now for not using the express buses:

1. Getting stranded if you miss the bus.

2. Not being able to get home during the day in case of an emergency.

Neither would exist with light rail.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Henry_Ryto

[Henry_Ryto]

I wonder what role Portsmouth and Chesapeake will play in future light rail expansion. Some areas in Chesapeake and Portsmouth seem to be just a hop-skip away from Norfolk. You could also throw Southside Norfolk in the mix too. Some of the areas like Berkley and Campostella would be a straight shot from Norfolk's proposed 7.4 mile starter line. I'm just theorizing here.

Many of us are arguing for LRT to be run through the expanded Midtown Tunnel. Let's hope we win this one.

[VAGATOR]

Many of us are arguing for LRT to be run through the expanded Midtown Tunnel. Let's hope we win this one.

I can't see a new midtown tunnel without a lane dedicated to rail.

[rusthebuss]

Many of us are arguing for LRT to be run through the expanded Midtown Tunnel. Let's hope we win this one.

I think they are holding off because the proposed third crossing was suppose to have dedicated LRT lines in it. It would have connected the Naval Base to Newport News Shipyard. I'm just guessing.

[ace707]

The way you'd probably do that is to have a station outside the base gates that is the terminus of the public civilian system. Then you force a transfer across the platform onto the base system. Whatever security is necessary (swiping a military ID to get through the turnstile, etc) could be installed on the platform. This would be a coordinated timed-transfer so when the civilian train arrives and discharges passengers, the navy train (rhymes with gravy train.. hmm..) would be there already, waiting for the transferring passengers (no waiting for a connection). The only problem is that work stations are so spread out all over that base, how do you make sure the system efficiently meets desired trip ends? There would also have to be provisions made for how trains would share street space with aircraft, cranes, and other huge vehicles that are often seen driving down navy base streets!

At the San Diego Naval Base, their light rail runs parallel with the base with stops along the major gates. Think of a light rail going along shore drive with a stop at each base gate and you'll have a very close idea.

[Henry_Ryto]

I think they are holding off because the proposed third crossing was suppose to have dedicated LRT lines in it. It would have connected the Naval Base to Newport News Shipyard. I'm just guessing.

That will connect the Newport News and Norfolk lines, but not bring Portsmouth and Chesapeake on board.

[rusthebuss]

That will connect the Newport News and Norfolk lines, but not bring Portsmouth and Chesapeake on board.

Have you heard any change in Chesapeake on their feelings toward light rail? Last that i heard they didn't want anything to do with it. I think its critical that they too join in on the LR, at least Portlock and South Norfolk.

Portsmouth has been very mute on the LR. Haven't heard too much of their feelings on it. Henry have you heard anything about the city councils views on it?

[Henry_Ryto]

Have you heard any change in Chesapeake on their feelings toward light rail? Last that i heard they didn't want anything to do with it. I think its critical that they too join in on the LR, at least Portlock and South Norfolk.

Portsmouth has been very mute on the LR. Haven't heard too much of their feelings on it. Henry have you heard anything about the city councils views on it?

Chesapeake is transitphobic, period. Most cities have two Councilmen as their HRT Commissioners; neither of Chesapeake's Commissioners is a City Councilman. That shows how seriously transit is taken there. The only pending project in Chesapeake is a circulator bus from Robert Hall DTC to the Greenbrier area. (After that, both Route 15s would go to Robert Hall, instead of splitting as they now do.)

I've heard nothing out of Portsmouth elected officials on it. However, LRT would dovetail nicely with what they're trying to do with redevelopment. That's part of why extending LRT through the Midtown Tunnel is of critical importance.

Bus service in Portsmouth is pretty good Monday-Saturday during the day. Portsmouth's UCAC reps have been focused on evening and Sunday service.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Henry_Ryto

[rusthebuss]

Chesapeake is transitphobic, period. Most cities have two Councilmen as their HRT Commissioners; neither of Chesapeake's Commissioners is a City Councilman. That shows how seriously transit is taken there. The only pending project in Chesapeake is a circulator bus from Robert Hall DTC to the Greenbrier area. (After that, both Route 15s would go to Robert Hall, instead of splitting as they now do.)

I've heard nothing out of Portsmouth elected officials on it. However, LRT would dovetail nicely with what they're trying to do with redevelopment. That's part of why extending LRT through the Midtown Tunnel is of critical importance.

Bus service in Portsmouth is pretty good Monday-Saturday during the day. Portsmouth's UCAC reps have been focused on evening and Sunday service.

Is HRT trying to push the idea to Portsmouth city council? I would hope that with Portsmouth being as close and being similar to Norfolk that they would take LR serious at this point.

[Henry_Ryto]

Is HRT trying to push the idea to Portsmouth city council? I would hope that with Portsmouth being as close and being similar to Norfolk that they would take LR serious at this point.

You can't really "push the idea" without the tunnel connection.

[rusthebuss]

You can't really "push the idea" without the tunnel connection.

Yeah you are right about that. So with this HR transit authority, when would they build the extra tunnel for the Midtown?

[brikkman]

I just moved from a military base, and I can tell you that I would not be caught dead on a bus, but a train is a whole different story. Trains are so much more reliable and they just have a whole different (better) feeling than a bus. I really think that LR would catch on on bases, but the only problem is security with checkpoints and such.

That is interesting!

The only reason why I do not ride buses now is because they are subjected to traffic and it takes too long to get to point A to B without a transfer. As a matter of fact, I would ride a bus if I didn't have to stand in the rain and it would take me right to work. When I was a teenager, you needed to ride the bus to get to everything if you mother did not take you. This ideal demonstrates why public transportation does not work in this area in general - Will it change that, I hope so!!

Then we can get the great-grandmothers and fathers off the roads that cause congestion so that I can visit Hampton once and a while.

[urbanvb]

I think buses here used to be more widely used than they are today. My Mom grew up in Norfolk and used to ride the bus from Norview to her job DT every day.

[scm]

I wish I had as much faith as many of you in the "build it and they will come" idea regarding LR extension to NNS. There are some significant issues whose symptoms are the current low car pooling, van pooling and transit utilization rates of the NNS commuting population -- all in spite of significant monetary incentives ($110/month, tax free) to use van pooling and transit.

First is the cultural issue -- I spend 27 years in the Navy, and I recognize the cultural pressures to work longer hours than your boss if you want to get ahead. With a Pentagon tour under my belt, I will tell you that telling your boss that you have to leave at 5 because of your car pool or express bus is a perfectly acceptable excuse in the center of military Type A workaholics. People will offer up excuses such as "I can't go home mid-day if I car pool" (what about borrowing a car, taking a taxi. etc.? -- all things you would face getting from the Pentagon to the Woodbridge or Stafford P/R), when the real issue is that if I have to leave before my boss, I will be seen as a non-hacker. If there is a flag level committment in this population onboard NNS, then it will become just as acceptable here as it is at the Pentagon.

Second, and again, quite successful at the Pentagon, are structural incentives to use mass transit. The push there is because there simply isn't enough space to build more parking lots -- with almost unlimited land, no such pressures at NNS. But if there was again, a flag level committment to reserving most parking near the piers for van pools, you would be amazed at how popular van pooling would become. (I can just laugh when I think of the Command Master Chief walking past a van pool full of junior sailors, who just parked right next to the pier, while he had to walk three blocks). You could create van pool and transit only access lanes to the base, etc. One more example.

If I were king of HRT, until there was a flag level committment on the part of Commander, Mid Atlantic Region to commit to increasing NNS's multiple occupant vehicles and transit utilization -- a committment to transit, in all of its forms as the preferred method of commuting -- then any discussion of LR extension to NNS would be a back burner item. HRT will make a significant investment in this route -- a stop that has no potential for TOD, as an added disincentive -- on the "hope" that a sexier LR will get the NNS population out of their SOVs. To quote an oft used military canard, "Hope is not a strategy".

Edited August 8, 2007 by scm

[kvaughn]

I saw what looked like railroad ties on a truck on lower Granby this morning. Is lightrail construction being started soon???

[levarforever]

I saw what looked like railroad ties on a truck on lower Granby this morning. Is lightrail construction being started soon???

I don't know if it's started already. It seems too early, but you never know. I have no idea how engineers prepare for constructing a light rail system, however, according to the Virginian-Pilot, "If no objections are raised, local officials will sign a contract accepting $128 million in federal rail funding, and start construction this fall." Fall is just a few weeks away, so I'm looking forward to seeing something happen.

If I'm not mistaken, light rail should be running by late 2009 or January 2010. Reps Thelma Drake and Bobby Scott sounded pretty confident that light rail will become a reality, so there just might be some preparation going on for construction already, but I wish I could say for sure.

[urbanfan]

I saw what looked like railroad ties on a truck on lower Granby this morning. Is lightrail construction being started soon???

Construction cannot start till funding is realeased from congress. Which is still a few weeks away. Also, the portion of light rail that will run through downtown will not have rail ties. The track will be laid and encased in concrete to make a seemless transition for cars to drive over. Probably the rail ties are for the portion of existing rail track that is still used and runs out to Lamberts Point.

[vdogg]

The 4 bridges needed for the light rail project went up for final review before the design review committee yesterday. Also, the downtown station design went under discussion yesterday but hasn't entered preliminary review yet.

[New England Transplant]

They are already laying the rails, I think, on the renovated Brableton Bridge. If you drive by and look towards Peta you can see the rails being installed on the concrete.

[vdogg]

I don't know. Seems odd that they would be doing that already. They won't have funding in hand for another 30 days and it seems like they would have had to complete the design review process before progressing to that stage.

[cpeakesqr]

I don't know. Seems odd that they would be doing that already. They won't have funding in hand for another 30 days and it seems like they would have had to complete the design review process before progressing to that stage.

They're building a totally separate bride to carry light rail.

[brikkman]

They're building a totally separate bride to carry light rail.

Which bridges up the question: what are they doing on that side of the bridge. I do not remember them digging in metal sheets into the water (as if they are building an addition to the bridge) and laying piles on that closed section of the bridge....

Maybe Prep work for the additional bridge???

[ace707]

They are already laying the rails, I think, on the renovated Brableton Bridge. If you drive by and look towards Peta you can see the rails being installed on the concrete.

Brambelton won't have light rail running through it

[metalman]

Brambelton won't have light rail running through it

Light rail is parralleling Brambleton there. The light goes from The Hospital, crossing the street (by bridge or on street I don't know) they down to York St. stop and on.

Edited August 22, 2007 by metalman

[urbanfan]

Light rail is parralleling Brambleton there. The light goes from The Hospital, crossing the street (by bridge or on street I don't know) they down to York St. stop and on.

The light rail does not start at the hospital. I starts on the west side of Brambleton avenue across from the Hospital area. From there it travels parrallel to Brambleton and crosses the Hague via a new bridge which is being designed right now by Parsons Brinkerhoff (sp).