Renaissance Tower Development in Fayetteville

[strmchsr77]

It sounds like the project is still progressing. They are going to name the bar the "Brass Monkey" and the restaurant will be called "The Town Club." These were the names of the bar and restaurants that were in the Mountain Inn.

Here is some more info from the Morning News: Ren Tower Restaurant and Bar

[cowbreath]

It sounds like the project is still progressing. They are going to name the bar the "Brass Monkey" and the restaurant will be called "The Town Club." These were the names of the bar and restaurants that were in the Mountain Inn.

Here is some more info from the Morning News: Ren Tower Restaurant and Bar

That's good to hear something. My sentiments are still the same as the person who wrote this editorial: NWANEWS.com - Editorial on Renaissance

[OnDickson]

"We're 60 percent through the process", Nock said. Wow. At that rate maybe construction will start sometime towards the end of the decade.

Seriously, something still smells very fishy about this whole project (not to mention the Southpass project as well). It is important to note that both of these projects were the result of a form of partnership between the City of Fayetteville and Nock and partners. It is also important to note that after almost 2 years of work that both of these projects are nothing more than a bunch of hot air and pretty pictures on paper.

Honestly I wouldn't get too excited about this project. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled definitively that the 25 mills due the Fayetteville Schools are untouchable by this TIF district, this project becomes a lot less attractive to the developers. From the rumblings I hear, the only real planning going on is the planning for an exit strategy that will keep Nock and his partners from having to pay the contractual damages due to the city of Fayetteville. As one major downtown developer told me just last week while rolling his eyes "the holdup is due to financing, not fabric and drapes. They can blame it on Mariott until the bitter end, but this isn't Mariott's first rodeo--they know a thing or two about designing hotels and it doesn't take two years."

[Mith242]

Thanks for the info guys. I haven't been in town a bit and missed out on some news. Wish I had seen that pic in the paper everyone's referring to.

[strmchsr77]

Thanks for the info guys. I haven't been in town a bit and missed out on some news. Wish I had seen that pic in the paper everyone's referring to.

I have it on my desk, if I can I might try and scan it in and see if I can post it.

[mzweig]

"We're 60 percent through the process", Nock said. Wow. At that rate maybe construction will start sometime towards the end of the decade.

Seriously, something still smells very fishy about this whole project (not to mention the Southpass project as well). It is important to note that both of these projects were the result of a form of partnership between the City of Fayetteville and Nock and partners. It is also important to note that after almost 2 years of work that both of these projects are nothing more than a bunch of hot air and pretty pictures on paper.

Honestly I wouldn't get too excited about this project. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled definitively that the 25 mills due the Fayetteville Schools are untouchable by this TIF district, this project becomes a lot less attractive to the developers. From the rumblings I hear, the only real planning going on is the planning for an exit strategy that will keep Nock and his partners from having to pay the contractual damages due to the city of Fayetteville. As one major downtown developer told me just last week while rolling his eyes "the holdup is due to financing, not fabric and drapes. They can blame it on Mariott until the bitter end, but this isn't Mariott's first rodeo--they know a thing or two about designing hotels and it doesn't take two years."

I'm afraid I have to agree. There's no way interior design is holding this up. That said, if they were wanting to pull the plug on it, I can't believe they would accept a $20K per month bleed. I am confused. I don't believe the delay is caused at Marriott at this point--that much I am fairly certain of.

[cowbreath]

I'm afraid I have to agree. There's no way interior design is holding this up. That said, if they were wanting to pull the plug on it, I can't believe they would accept a $20K per month bleed. I am confused. I don't believe the delay is caused at Marriott at this point--that much I am fairly certain of.

It's just concerning that this group tends to produce nice designs but don't do anything. Reminds me of vaporware in the software world. OnDickson may have an insight into some issues again being in a good location to hear. So this is Nock's group right that is developing, aka Nock Investments. They have their hand in developing Southpass also, as well as the Lofts at Underwood. Alexander, his partner, is part of AMA real estate group (Amaregi website). I do think that Rupple Row was developed by them and it is very nice. Ruskin Heights developer Ward I think expressed some respect for thier intentions or desires. I just wonder what the hold up is. I'm afraid of what would happen if this doesn't work out. Obviously the city is getting the blame for demolishing the Mountain Inn site at high cost for this to get nothing back on the Renaissance. With the good rubbing going on with the major about these projects, he'll definitely get a bad picture. My main concern is the anti-development members of the city council being encouraged even more in their dislike of Coody (and urban density development) and the propagation of pimping Fayetteville to development.

Anyways, the best case scenario is probably that with the Renaissance, Cosmopolitan redesign, Lofts, Southpass, etc. (no longer including Dickson parking garage) we are seeing a delay because of too much responsibility at once but that it will get worked out eventually and we'll be happy with the end results. After signing on all these big projects, I assume the funding might have been there but the people to do the work weren't, and it is not as simple as adding more people to make the same deadline...double the people and double the deadline. Anyways there is probably more to it, and funding may not be there but they get the high profile projects to increase investors.

Ok, a lot said. Just build it so I can stop talking!

[cocothief]

I'm afraid I have to agree. There's no way interior design is holding this up. That said, if they were wanting to pull the plug on it, I can't believe they would accept a $20K per month bleed. I am confused. I don't believe the delay is caused at Marriott at this point--that much I am fairly certain of.

I have to disagree: with the idea that there is no way that Marriot is holding this deal up at this point.

Having dealt with "national brands" on real estate deals in the past, I know how those negotiations can go, and how a national can strong arm a smaller market developer.

Marriot doesn't NEED a location in Fayetteville. Pure and simple. They could do it now, or do it in ten years. To them, it makes almost no difference. There is very little incentive for a national brand to work diligently on making the needed changes and approving them. This process doesn't involve a couple of guys in suits, as much as it involves the bureaucracy of an entire large company. Construction documents reviewed by construction people, then reviewed by legal department, then changes requested, sent back to developer, reworked with architect, resent to corporate, etc etc etc.. These things can and do drag on for months.

By having a construction crane on site, the developer has shown their hand, so to speak, and its conceiveable that Marriot is using this to their advantagae to nickel and dime these folks into every spec they have on their wish list.

The developer NEEDS Marriot in order for this investment to work. Without them, the whole thing is likely scrapped or at least delayed a couple of more years.

As for interior design, I think that there are likely several structural items that are being addressed and negotiated over which don't really fall under what we traditionally think of when we say "interior design".

I think if you want to evaluate the probability of this process, start from the point that Marriot was announced as a tenant. That essentially reset this project back to square one. Then you can realistically see how long this deal has dragged on.

It does seem a bit unreasonable at this point, but I don't think its completely out of the ordinary.

[masons_dad1]

As for interior design, I think that there are likely several structural items that are being addressed and negotiated over which don't really fall under what we traditionally think of when we say "interior design".

I still think they're just undecided on which wallpaper looks best, which is really holding things up.

[strmchsr77]

Thanks for the info guys. I haven't been in town a bit and missed out on some news. Wish I had seen that pic in the paper everyone's referring to.

Alright, I finally made it back to my office. Here is a scanned copy of the future Fayetteville skyline with the Ren Tower. Sorry about the words from the back of the page, I don't think there is anything I could do about them.

[mcheiss]

Thanks for the pic.

This thing is gonna Dwarf the Cosmopolitan!!

[slyder1]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how many feet the Ren. will be? I know its 18 floors but was curious how many feet it will be. 200 ft. maybe?

[strmchsr77]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how many feet the Ren. will be? I know its 18 floors but was curious how many feet it will be. 200 ft. maybe?

I can't remember for sure but I did see a number somewhere it was over 200 ft, I want to say somewhere between 218-238?

[masons_dad1]

All I can say is that if this thing ever gets built it will leave Fayetteville wanting. The Ren will render even the nicest tall building in Fayetteville a homely dog. Hopefully there will be some drastic remodels taking place if the Ren gets built. If not the Ren stands to be the most awkward looking skyscraper in a town the size of Fayetteville.

[cowbreath]

All I can say is that if this thing ever gets built it will leave Fayetteville wanting. The Ren will render even the nicest tall building in Fayetteville a homely dog. Hopefully there will be some drastic remodels taking place if the Ren gets built. If not the Ren stands to be the most awkward looking skyscraper in a town the size of Fayetteville.

I think I'll welcome that awkward dilemna, but I don't think it will be too bad anyways especially with the angle of that picture being misrepresentative. Charlotte looked pretty cool when it added it's tallest (by far) building back in the early '90's.

[strmchsr77]

All I can say is that if this thing ever gets built it will leave Fayetteville wanting. The Ren will render even the nicest tall building in Fayetteville a homely dog. Hopefully there will be some drastic remodels taking place if the Ren gets built. If not the Ren stands to be the most awkward looking skyscraper in a town the size of Fayetteville.

Other taller buildings in the downtown area seem to be getting a facelift too. The Cosmo hotel has started renovation on the interior so hopefully they will start on the exterior this year. I would really like to see some renderings on that. Then the former EJ Ball Plaza has already started exterior and interor renovations and is moving along pretty quick. Maybe one of us will make it down there and get an update picture on it. If someone would just do something to Hillcrest Towers (I would rather it not be torn down, I don't want to lose a 12 story building out of the skyline).

[Mith242]

Thanks for the pic Colby. I'm really looking forward to being able to see that view. I do know the Cosmopolitan is getting a facelift but I'm still not sure how much they're going to do. I don't think the EJ Ball Plaza Building is having big changes either. I think they're mainly just adding that outdoor seating area I believe.

[strmchsr77]

Thanks for the pic Colby. I'm really looking forward to being able to see that view. I do know the Cosmopolitan is getting a facelift but I'm still not sure how much they're going to do. I don't think the EJ Ball Plaza Building is having big changes either. I think they're mainly just adding that outdoor seating area I believe.

I saw a few renderings of the Growth Group Building (formerly EJ Ball) and they had major changes for the entire building. Then over the past day or so, I heard something about them selling the building. So I don't know how much they are going to do and if there is a new owner or not.

[thewizard16]

I'm fine with the Ball building not undergoing MAJOR changes, but they need to at least replace the glass, or at least figure out a way to make it look less grimy.

[Mith242]

I wouldn't mind seeing major changes for it. It's just never done anything for me. But maybe I'm wrong about it. I thought I had seen them mainly just adding the seating area outside and just a few other minor details. But that was quite a while back as well.

But to get back on topic, has anything been going on at the Renaissance site? I have a feeling I already know the answer, but I guess I had to hope maybe something happened while I was gone.

[strmchsr77]

I wouldn't mind seeing major changes for it. It's just never done anything for me. But maybe I'm wrong about it. I thought I had seen them mainly just adding the seating area outside and just a few other minor details. But that was quite a while back as well.

But to get back on topic, has anything been going on at the Renaissance site? I have a feeling I already know the answer, but I guess I had to hope maybe something happened while I was gone.

Actually, when I drove by there earlier today I thought that I there was a little more dirt work underway. I did not look too closely so I might be wrong. It is probably just wishful thinking.

[Mith242]

Actually, when I drove by there earlier today I thought that I there was a little more dirt work underway. I did not look too closely so I might be wrong. It is probably just wishful thinking.

Yeah I figured. We'll be shocked one day when they actually get some beginnings of a structure actually up.

[mzweig]

Yeah I figured. We'll be shocked one day when they actually get some beginnings of a structure actually up.

Don't hold your breath. Something is wrong here. Believe me, Marriott doesn't want delays like this either. Why would they? How will they get management fees if there is no hotel? There must be a money problem. Only time will tell if I am right about this.

Mark

[Mith242]

Don't hold your breath. Something is wrong here. Believe me, Marriott doesn't want delays like this either. Why would they? How will they get management fees if there is no hotel? There must be a money problem. Only time will tell if I am right about this.

Mark

Yeah it does make you wonder. Surely you'd think Marriott doesn't do this with all their hotel developments.

[OnDickson]

Don't hold your breath. Something is wrong here. Believe me, Marriott doesn't want delays like this either. Why would they? How will they get management fees if there is no hotel? There must be a money problem. Only time will tell if I am right about this.

Mark

Something is definitely wrong here, and has been for a while now. The only rumors I've heard recently state that the only real work going on right now is the plotting of an exit strategy that will keep the developers from having to pay the contractual damages to the City of Fayetteville. Now that the Supreme Court has exempted the 25 mils for the Fayetteville School District, I fear this project may be dead in the water.

It is also interesting to note that the Southpass development--which is also another partnership between the City of Fayetteville and the Renaissance developers--has gone absolutely nowhere in almost 2 years, as well. Something definitely smells rotten here. I am just so thankful that the City rejected Nock and partners plans for the Walton Arts Center parking structure (which was another partnership with the city) based on the experiences at the Renaissance site.