SouthEnd High-Rise Projects

[Blue_Devil]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I would say until they get an anchor tenant this won't start.  However I am not sure why they dont start the 975 units of housing there.

https://www.falloncompany.com/projects/centre-south

They have actually been very active recently with some rezoning and work with the Dilworth historical group

[Norm2]

[DonkeyKong]

[KJHburg]

 2 towers of the heart of Southend the Ascent Southend apartment tower and the 110 East office tower. 

[Blue_Devil]

Wasn’t sure what thread to put this in but a lot going on in this picture 

[j-man]

I’m excited for this project but at the same time the roads and awkward shaped lots in front of this seem so odd. Will the businesses in front of this complex get redeveloped soon? 

Edited July 23, 2023 by j-man

[Blue_Devil]

3 hours ago, j-man said:

I’m excited for this project but at the same time the roads and awkward shaped lots in front of this seem so odd. Will the businesses in front of this complex get redeveloped soon? 

The Mr K’s was leased to crust pizza, but I thought the land was subsequently sold which is why they never started it

[ABCW]

The permit for Sandwich Max has been changed from "revisions needed" to "in progress" does that mean that the final design has been approved by the city and if so can we expect renderings sometime soon?

 

 

Never mind, I'm guessing it actually means that Sterling Bay have made revisions and are now awaiting approval of the revised set of plans? Anyone with more experience on Accela know the answer?

Edited July 24, 2023 by ABCW

[CLT Development]

2 hours ago, ABCW said:

The permit for Sandwich Max has been changed from "revisions needed" to "in progress" does that mean that the final design has been approved by the city and if so can we expect renderings sometime soon?

 

 

Never mind, I'm guessing it actually means that Sterling Bay have made revisions and are now awaiting approval of the revised set of plans? Anyone with more experience on Accela know the answer?

From what I understand Sterling Bay is currently on hold until market conditions change (i.e. construction prices). Despite that understanding, they will get their project approved so that its shovel ready when they feel comfortable starting again. One thing to really note however, apartment developers don't REALLY put out high gloss renderings of projects until they are closer to leasing them. There's little reason to market a building when its likely 30+ months from delivering. I don't expect renderings for this building anytime soon.

Edited July 24, 2023 by CLT Development

[kayman]

2 hours ago, ABCW said:

The permit for Sandwich Max has been changed from "revisions needed" to "in progress" does that mean that the final design has been approved by the city and if so can we expect renderings sometime soon?

 

 

Never mind, I'm guessing it actually means that Sterling Bay have made revisions and are now awaiting approval of the revised set of plans? Anyone with more experience on Accela know the answer?

I used to use Accela on daily when working in the land development planning sector while in the City of Atlanta. It means exactly what you're assuming.  Also NC land use law basically gives developers the right to release conceptual elevations whenever. This is contrary to GA land use law which requires everything associated with a land use permit application to become a part of the public record immediately upon application submission. 

[CTiger]

59 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

From what I understand Sterling Bay is currently on hold until market conditions change (i.e. construction prices).

I’ve heard this reasoning cited regarding a few developments delayed launches now.  Do these developers actually think construction costs are going to go down, or is it more of waiting for the lending environment to improve?  Or something else?  Could they be waiting on some of these big GCs to wrap up projects and have available labor?  
 

The reason I ask is because I work in a related industry and the analysis we have done would indicate that construction costs have leveled somewhat post-pandemic and this is probably just what it’s going to cost from now on.   I could see waiting on interest rates to improve or maybe to see if the demand is still there after some of these other projects are delivered.  

[CLT Development]

50 minutes ago, kayman said:

I used to use Accela on daily when working in the land development planning sector while in the City of Atlanta. It means exactly what you're assuming.  Also NC land use law basically gives developers the right to release conceptual elevations whenever. This is contrary to GA land use law which requires everything associated with a land use permit application to become a part of the public record immediately upon application submission. 

correct. You do not have to give so much as a sniff of what a building looks like any longer in the state of North Carolina. 

16 minutes ago, CTiger said:

Could they be waiting on some of these big GCs to wrap up projects and have available labor?  

Personally I think this is a big part of it. There aren't very many people in Charlotte that specialize in this type of product, its why you saw Samet winning so many deals in NoDa and South End. Now they are pretty much tapped out from what I've heard.

18 minutes ago, CTiger said:

The reason I ask is because I work in a related industry and the analysis we have done would indicate that construction costs have leveled somewhat post-pandemic and this is probably just what it’s going to cost from now on.   I could see waiting on interest rates to improve or maybe to see if the demand is still there after some of these other projects are delivered.  

Even projects that are financed are stalled, so its either costs or labor.

Edited July 24, 2023 by CLT Development

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, CLT Development said:

correct. You do not have to give so much as a sniff of what a building looks like any longer in the state of North Carolina. 

Personally I think this is a big part of it. There aren't very many people in Charlotte that specialize in this type of product, its why you saw Samet winning so many deals in NoDa and South End. Now they are pretty much tapped out from what I've heard.

Even projects that are financed are stalled, so its either costs or labor.

financing is so much more expensive at these interest rates and that is what stalling the starts.  Those who can get started will find themselves with less competition when they are complete.  These interest rates are affecting everything real estate from residential, to commercial to apartment towers to office buildings not being able to be refinanced.  

[kayman]

23 hours ago, CLT Development said:

correct. You do not have to give so much as a sniff of what a building looks like any longer in the state of North Carolina. 

Personally I think this is a big part of it. There aren't very many people in Charlotte that specialize in this type of product, its why you saw Samet winning so many deals in NoDa and South End. Now they are pretty much tapped out from what I've heard.

Even projects that are financed are stalled, so its either costs or labor.

Trust, I'll be doing some things in the coming years behind the scenes to undo that whack law in the NCGA.  The public will know what is being built because 1) it's in the public's interest and trust of government to know what is being built and 2) developers' should be transparent with the communities they want to build developments in. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by kayman

[CLT Development]

19 minutes ago, kayman said:

Trust, I'll be doing some things in the coming years behind the scenes to undo that whack law in the NCGA.  The public will know what is being built because 1) it's in the public's interest and trust of government to know what is being built and 2) developers' should be transparent with the communities they want to build developments in. 

And I, as a Charlotte-Mecklenburg Planning Commissioner will push to have at least elevations go back to being standard practice for public viewing.

[ABCW]

Was reading up on the UDO earlier and was just curious. What do you think is realistically the maximum height with bonus TOD-UC buildings can achieve?

[CLT Development]

1 hour ago, ABCW said:

Was reading up on the UDO earlier and was just curious. What do you think is realistically the maximum height with bonus TOD-UC buildings can achieve?

300' technically  but I've seen a 400'+ building drawn along South Blvd that might just test that. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by CLT Development

[Hushpuppy321]

Excited for the Growth of the Skyline down into SouthEnd but it’s not going to make a large impact (from further away) until we start getting into more of the 30 Story (350’) and taller buildings later into the decade.

[ABCW]

14 hours ago, CLT Development said:

300' technically  but I've seen a 400'+ building drawn along South Blvd that might just test that. 

Thats good to hear.  Also I should have elaborated more, I know that TOD-UC is typically 300' with bonus but is technically unlimited if the building is located within 1/4 mile of a mass transit station. Although the city lists the max height as unlimited, there are only so many ways to achieve bonus height which means that there is still a theoretical limit. I just wasn't sure if you are anyone else had a general idea of how far a developer could push that. Do you think said 400'+ building is probably about as high as one could go?

[CLT Development]

5 minutes ago, ABCW said:

Thats good to hear.  Also I should have elaborated more, I know that TOD-UC is typically 300' with bonus but is technically unlimited if the building is located within 1/4 mile of a mass transit station. Although the city lists the max height as unlimited, there are only so many ways to achieve bonus height which means that there is still a theoretical limit. I just wasn't sure if you are anyone else had a general idea of how far a developer could push that. Do you think said 400'+ building is probably about as high as one could go?

As I understand it — and I was on the committee that shaped the UDO and am currently appointed to be a voice/voter on all rezoning matters in Charlotte — 300' is the maximum, which can actually be fairly easily achieved, maybe too easy tbh. That 400' building however, will have a tough road to climb, it certainly possible to get approved, but with its location within Dilworth proper, and the current and future state of Charlotte City Council gradually growing more NIMBY, there will be powerful opposition against it.

[ABCW]

4 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

As I understand it — and I was on the committee that shaped the UDO and am currently appointed to be a voice/voter on all rezoning matters in Charlotte — 300' is the maximum, which can actually be fairly easily achieved, maybe too easy tbh. That 400' building however, will have a tough road to climb, it certainly possible to get approved, but with its location within Dilworth proper, and the current and future state of Charlotte City Council gradually growing more NIMBY, there will be powerful opposition against it.

So does that mean that meeting the bonus requirements does not guarantee a height bonus? Also am I looking at the most current version of the UDO? Sorry about all the questions I'm just trying to understand how it works.

This is pulled from what I believe is the most up to date version of the UDO and is what I have been referencing:

 

 

[CLT Development]

15 minutes ago, ABCW said:

So does that mean that meeting the bonus requirements does not guarantee a height bonus? Also am I looking at the most current version of the UDO? Sorry about all the questions I'm just trying to understand how it works.

This is pulled from what I believe is the most up to date version of the UDO and is what I have been referencing:

 

 

I'm saying it's fairly easy to get the height bonus, all you really need to do is put money in the housing trust fund. And I'm surprised that they put the unlimited in there, I must have missed that, if that's the case, the 400' tower is within .25 miles of East/West Station, so it would be fine. I appreciate you pointing out the addition of the Unlimited. I haven't had to go over anything over 300' thus far, but I know about the 400' from the developer building it. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by CLT Development

[ABCW]

6 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

I'm saying it's fairly easy to get the height bonus, all you really need to do is put money in the housing trust fund. And I'm surprised that they put the unlimited in there, I must have missed that, if that's the case, the 400' tower is within .25 miles of East/West Station, so it would be fine.

Ok thanks for the clarification. 

[CLT Development]

2 hours ago, ABCW said:

Ok thanks for the clarification. 

Thank you for pointing out my error!

Edited July 26, 2023 by CLT Development

[KJHburg]

Clue the music again the CARY Files strike again.  This is with RAM co-developer of next door Lowes Tech Tower with their 121 West tower.  

31-story vertically mixed-use building with 333 apartments,
hospitality suites, co-working spaces, and ~13,600 sf of ground
floor retail. The project will occupy a prominent corner in South
End Charlotte, adding density and a mix of uses in a transit-
oriented development

The CARY Files the gift that keeps on giving!

https://carync.app.box.com/s/o2lockq82x1yg8pkd3qozawvrhwjggoa/folder/214543092129