CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[KJHburg]

Independence bus lanes were just that bus express lanes.  It was not Bus Rapid Transit which involves off bus fare paying, elevated stations to enter the bus.   The Independence bus lanes were just express lanes so the buses did not get caught up in the heavy traffic.  

this is true BRT what is being built in Raleigh right now.  

Benefits of BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) | Raleighnc.gov

[kermit]

Meanwhile, down the road...

Chapel Hill was recommended for $138 million of FTA funding for N-S BRT. Its currently billed as having 'mostly' dedicated lanes and signal priority.

https://triangleblogblog.com/2024/03/11/breaking-bidens-budget-recommends-funding-for-nsbrt/

Edited March 11 by kermit

[pathb]

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2024/03/08/cats-transit-streetcar-roads-money-transportation.html

[davidclt]

So after spending a week in two more European cities (Lisbon and Madrid), I'm left wondering again how much we would need to invest to give Charlotte a good, usable bus and rail system and if my thoughts are unreasonable? For 2024, Charlotte Area Transit System's (CATS) budget is $314,588,638. That feels like a lot and yet not much at the same time. It seems like even small things (i.e. labeling stops with usable names throughout the system, information displays at stops and on buses - the pictures below show just how nice it could be), and bigger things like increased frequency for many lines . . . Yesterday, we took an (almost express, just two additional stops) to the airport.

[Windsurfer]

20 hours ago, davidclt said:

So after spending a week in two more European cities (Lisbon and Madrid), I'm left wondering again how much we would need to invest to give Charlotte a good, usable bus and rail system and if my thoughts are unreasonable? For 2024, Charlotte Area Transit System's (CATS) budget is $314,588,638. That feels like a lot and yet not much at the same time. It seems like even small things (i.e. labeling stops with usable names throughout the system, information displays at stops and on buses - the pictures below show just how nice it could be), and bigger things like increased frequency for many lines . . . Yesterday, we took an (almost express, just two additional stops) to the airport.

Simple and easy is not exactly how I'd describe London Transit.  But, yeah, we need to make it simpler....maybe consider Renfe to help us with rail, instead of the Spanish outfit building toll roads.

[TCLT]

Red Line public meetings are happening: CATS Hosts Public Meetings for Red Line Commuter Rail - Charlotte Area Transit System (charlottenc.gov). Virtual meeting on 4/10 and then in person meetings 4/16, 4/18, and 4/20. Wonder what new information if any they'll have to share.

[Nathan2]

Should be big news!

[kermit]

Wow, check out Charlotte in this bus stop spacing chart. I would never have guessed are stops are so widely spaced.

(I just stole this from the tweeter so I can’t vouch for accuracy)

 

[Norm2]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

Wow, check out Charlotte in this bus stop spacing chart. I would never have guessed are stops are so widely spaced.

(I just stole this from the tweeter so I can’t vouch for accuracy)

 

Yup, a bust stop for every 1/4 of a mile.

[TCLT]

14 hours ago, kermit said:

Wow, check out Charlotte in this bus stop spacing chart. I would never have guessed are stops are so widely spaced.

(I just stole this from the tweeter so I can’t vouch for accuracy)

 

I'm absolutely furious the stops/mile legend isn't ordered.

[LKN704]

Gossip about the Red Line must be spreading amongst NIMBY hens in Iredell County. My mother just texted me this earlier this evening:

Quote

They’re talking about building the redline up to Mooresville and all the racists in town are having a fit because now the “thugs” can 
1) take the train to come rob them or 
2) get a free ride to the lake

And then the new mayor of Mooresville’s says he’s 100% voting against it. Idk if he even has a say. It’s almost all in meck county and im sure it’s prob up to state dot or something. Not some podunk figure head.

 

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

Gossip about the Red Line must be spreading amongst NIMBY hens in Iredell County. My mother just texted me this earlier this evening:

 

Same thing happened in Pineville. I remember specific conversations with some business owners there who claimed the same thing. I couldn't believe it. I just shook my head and told them what a huge mistake they're making....

[kermit]

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

Gossip about the Red Line must be spreading amongst NIMBY hens in Iredell County. My mother just texted me this earlier this evening:

 

This is largely why the previous iteration of the Red Line was planned to terminate in Mt, Mourne (Lowes). Iredell just doesn’t want it.

[kayman]

12 minutes ago, kermit said:

This is largely why the previous iteration of the Red Line was planned to terminate in Mt, Mourne (Lowes). Iredell just doesn’t want it.

It still will be having a northern terminus in Mt. Mourne. MTC isn't going to allocate funds to allow operations of the LYNX Red Line into Iredell beyond that station.  Some planners and municipal level staffers in Town of Mooresville government want it to go to downtown Mooresville as the terminus but their foolish town commission is a whole other story. 

Edited April 3 by kayman

[RANYC]

8 hours ago, kermit said:

8 hours ago, kayman said:

It still will be having a northern terminus in Mt. Mourne. MTC isn't going to allocate funds to allow operations of the LYNX Red Line into Iredell beyond that station.  Some planners and municipal level staffers in Town of Mooresville government want it to go to downtown Mooresville as the terminus but their foolish town commission is a whole other story. 

This is largely why the previous iteration of the Red Line was planned to terminate in Mt, Mourne (Lowes). Iredell just doesn’t want it.

[Professor]

17 minutes ago, RANYC said:

 

Not only Lowes, but Novant Hospital is also very cloes with many doctor's offices. It would be a perfect stop. There is a rail into downtown Mooresville and it would be perfect. I can't image anyone not supporting the red line with the population explosion in the area. 

[CLT2014]

Would Iredell have to help fund a station in Mooresville or do they already contribute enough to CATS to fund one station? My understanding is they don't pay an extra sales tax in Iredell like Meck residents to go towards transit. 

[kermit]

28 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Would Iredell have to help fund a station in Mooresville or do they already contribute enough to CATS to fund one station? My understanding is they don't pay an extra sales tax in Iredell like Meck residents to go towards transit. 

The last time around Iredell made it clear they were not going to pay a dime for Red Line tracks, CATS had decided that they would pay for the two+ miles to Mt Mourne, but not all the way to downtown Mooresville. I can’t remember if Iredell still funds a CATS express bus, but, if so, that would be their only contribution to CATS. Iredell will -never- institute a county wide tax, and I doubt the good folks in Statesville would let Morrisville tax themselves for transit (even if they wanted to).

Ironically, NCDOT would probably pay for some of the Iredell county construction costs since their funding formula calculation is transit basically gets nothing, unless it crosses a county line. The state contribution would be for the whole line, not just the Iredell portion. Had the Charlotte-Winston inter-city corridor gotten funded the state might  have picked up most of the Iredell track cost separately from the Red Line project (but that intercity route got nothing in this funding round).

As a Mecklenburg resident, I would be a little ticked to watch my transit money get spent in Iredell.  

Edited April 3 by kermit

[kayman]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

The last time around Iredell made it clear they were not going to pay a dime for Red Line tracks, CATS had decided that they would pay for the two+ miles to Mt Mourne, but not all the way to downtown Mooresville. I can’t remember if Iredell still funds a CATS express bus, but, if so, that would be their only contribution to CATS. Iredell will -never- institute a county wide tax, and I doubt the good folks in Statesville would let Morrisville tax themselves for transit (even if they wanted to).

Ironically, NCDOT would probably pay for some of the Iredell county construction costs since their funding formula calculation is transit basically gets nothing, unless it crosses a county line. Had the Charlotte-Winston inter-city corridor gotten funded the state might  have picked up most of the Iredell track  cost (but it got nothing in this round).

As a Mecklenburg resident, I would be a little ticked to watch my transit money get spent in Iredell.  

Iredell County has no say on transit funding if Mooresville decides to fund the LYNX Red Line to downtown Mooresville. NC state law allows both counties and municipalities the ability to fund transit. If Mooresville decided to fund the LYNX Red Line then it would go it alone but legal. 

I would say never say never on a countywide transit tax funding mechanism in any of the 4 NC counties of Metro Charlotte. Iredell could assist if the political headwinds shift like they have in Cabarrus and Gaston counties. 

CATS doesn't have any Iredell County service at the moment. Mooresville ended their funding for CATS in the late 2000s. The towns of Mooresville and Troutman, and the City of Statesville does fund transit via the Iredell County Area Transit System. That service does a set of deviated fixed routes of shuttle bus around their county and 2 express shuttle bus routes that goes from Statesville to CTC and another one from Mooresville to CTC using the I-77 North managed express lanes to come into the Charlotte City Center. 

Edited April 3 by kayman

[kermit]

9 minutes ago, kayman said:

Iredell County has no say on transit funding if Mooresville decides to fund the LYNX Red Line to downtown Mooresville. NC state law allows both counties and municipalities the ability to fund transit. If Mooresville decided to fund the LYNX Red Line then it would go it alone but legal. 

I would say never say never on a countywide transit tax funding mechanism in any of the 4 NC counties of Metro Charlotte. Iredell could assist if the political headwinds shift like they have in Cabarrus and Gaston counties. 

There is so much antipathy towards transit to Charlotte with the Iredell county commission that I could actually imagine them retaliating against transit funding from Mooresville (in the same way the state threatened to withhold funds from Charlotte when we decided to fund phase 2 of the Gold Line). I will admit this is really just paranoia on my part.

I take your never say never point, but I think Iredell is a fundamentally different beast than most other counties in the metro. Statesville is nearly 20 miles further from Charlotte than Gastonia or Concord, N Iredell has virtually zero interaction with Charlotte, and North of Troutman, the county has stronger economic connections to Hickory and Winston than Charlotte I just don’t see much hope for the majority of Iredell voters to ever embrace transit to Charlotte.

[videtur quam contuor]

What was the Mooresville/S Iredell/all Iredell opinion on the toll lane construction for 77?

[KJHburg]

21 minutes ago, videtur quam contuor said:

What was the Mooresville/S Iredell/all Iredell opinion on the toll lane construction for 77?

they hate it but they use it all the time I see the cars jumping on the lanes.

Down in Charleston they are going to implement a Bus Rapid Transit line but near downtown most of it on the city streets no special lanes.  

Lowcountry Rapid Transit

[kayman]

5 hours ago, kermit said:

There is so much antipathy towards transit to Charlotte with the Iredell county commission that I could actually imagine them retaliating against transit funding from Mooresville (in the same way the state threatened to withhold funds from Charlotte when we decided to fund phase 2 of the Gold Line). I will admit this is really just paranoia on my part.

I take your never say never point, but I think Iredell is a fundamentally different beast than most other counties in the metro. Statesville is nearly 20 miles further from Charlotte than Gastonia or Concord, N Iredell has virtually zero interaction with Charlotte, and North of Troutman, the county has stronger economic connections to Hickory and Winston than Charlotte I just don’t see much hope for the majority of Iredell voters to ever embrace transit to Charlotte.

Iredell up to the Statesville area is quickly shifting towards Charlotte economic ties from Hickory and definitely from Winston-Salem for sure. Winston-Salem is struggling to maintain economic ties to its adjacent counties like Yadkin and Davie, which are part of the Winston-Salem MSA. 

Ironically, Hickory is also shifting towards Charlotte economic ties as well. Hickory knows the mountains has tourism towards Boone, but they want more economic development associated with large distribution centers and industrial parks with various types of components like the data centers which are tied a massive urban center like Charlotte. It's why the Catawba County Economic Development Authority lends to itself advertising as Charlotte's NW Gateway via their website and inserts in the Charlotte Business Journal. Hickory is using the NC 16 corridor improvements to I-40 as that lynchpin to further connect to Charlotte. That will open up the abilities for more of that economic development along that very corridor towards Charlotte.

Basically the urban development patterns in central Iredell around Statesville is to connect southward to the booming urbanization in Troutman along US 21/NC 115 corridor, which goes back towards Charlotte as well. 

Iredell up towards Love Valley Union Grove, or Harmony will likely stay rural but the portions of the county from I-40 southward would likely be aiming to be apart of Metro Charlotte. 

Edited April 3 by kayman

[CLT2014]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

The last time around Iredell made it clear they were not going to pay a dime for Red Line tracks, CATS had decided that they would pay for the two+ miles to Mt Mourne, but not all the way to downtown Mooresville. I can’t remember if Iredell still funds a CATS express bus, but, if so, that would be their only contribution to CATS. Iredell will -never- institute a county wide tax, and I doubt the good folks in Statesville would let Morrisville tax themselves for transit (even if they wanted to).

Ironically, NCDOT would probably pay for some of the Iredell county construction costs since their funding formula calculation is transit basically gets nothing, unless it crosses a county line. The state contribution would be for the whole line, not just the Iredell portion. Had the Charlotte-Winston inter-city corridor gotten funded the state might  have picked up most of the Iredell track cost separately from the Red Line project (but that intercity route got nothing in this funding round).

As a Mecklenburg resident, I would be a little ticked to watch my transit money get spent in Iredell.  

Yeah, honestly disappointed Meck residents would be funding a station in Iredell, giving them a convenient option to commute to Uptown, while doing their day to day shopping in Iredell with no sales tax. Meanwhile Meck residents in Steele Creek, Ballantyne, South Charlotte, East Charlotte, Northwest Charlotte, et... are screwed still in Silver Line + Red Line plan but being asked to pay more in sales tax. 

Edited April 3 by CLT2014

[RANYC]

Transit plan was proposed in 2020, and frankly, at the time, CATS lacked the leadership, the competence, and public confidence to handle it.  CATS reputation is on the mend, I think, but aren’t we expecting a dramatically adjusted transit plan given the previous plan may be perceived as bearing the taint of the old era CATS?

Edited April 3 by RANYC