Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[nashvillwill]

I have been reading urban planet for years and never posted. Nashville is at critical junction in terms of growth. We have a great opportunity now. We are in the spot light nationwide. What will we do with this opportunity. Will we throw up (literally) very building that investors want because they see a demand for office buildings, apartments, hotels, and restaurants. Or will be prudent. So far a lot of throw up. Not that aesthetics is everything. The real issue in fast growth is the big picture BALANCE. As we throw up mid rises and high rises -crane after crane pop up. But is this energy, growth all good. This is the time we should be looking not up at the beauty of high rises but looking down at our streets, sidewalks, traffic, and transit. Quality of life in nashville and I will add great buildings is not based on scale but on detail. Great design is not just on that beautiful top to that building (which is important) but in making the building work within the environment it resides in- the street, the people using the building, look up and down, relating to history. Celebrating being there-not just glass, metal, and concrete.

As Nashville grows at this tremendous pace we should be looking for new answers to solving old and new problems. These new answers are not being talked about and we get distracted by all the glitter and wrapping of our packages. I fear we will infill so much that our downtown and mid town will be too conjested and our suburbia will be spread out to infinity.

Great post! I think you will find that there are many people here who share similar thoughts. There is some diversity in opinions on this forum about which version of future Nashville we want to see, but we all deeply care about this city and always hope for more out of developments.

[Nashvilletitans]

I agree that most of the posters have good intentions and good insights.  You are right that we need more out of our developers and most importantly our city leaders.  

I remember a few years ago when a developer went out on a limb and proposed a pioneering long range walkable green concept development that involved change.   It was about walkability, green buildings, green open spaces, farming, lang range planing, mass transit, economics and jobs.  It was probably the most cutting edge idea that was tacking growth and traffic issues. It was in Nashville's bells bend.  Because it was visionary  the leadership of nashville would not touch it and the nimby's  disguised it as a monster and scared everyone away from it.   

Another great project potential is the old convention center site,  It will probably will be good project.  but there is potential for whole lot more.  My philosophy about buildings is they should contribute to the betterment of the area they are located in and not be just buildings full of people.  Unfortunately this takes strong city leadership, good planning departments, and city vision, and consistency with leadership,  

I think we need big new ideas that no is talking about very much and hope this forum will discuss.  Otherwise Atlanta here we come.

[Guest]

I agree that most of the posters have good intentions and good insights. You are right that we need more out of our developers and most importantly our city leaders.

I remember a few years ago when a developer went out on a limb and proposed a pioneering long range walkable green concept development that involved change. It was about walkability, green buildings, green open spaces, farming, lang range planing, mass transit, economics and jobs. It was probably the most cutting edge idea that was tacking growth and traffic issues. It was in Nashville's bells bend. Because it was visionary the leadership of nashville would not touch it and the nimby's disguised it as a monster and scared everyone away from it.

Another great project potential is the old convention center site, It will probably will be good project. but there is potential for whole lot more. My philosophy about buildings is they should contribute to the betterment of the area they are located in and not be just buildings full of people. Unfortunately this takes strong city leadership, good planning departments, and city vision, and consistency with leadership,

I think we need big new ideas that no is talking about very much and hope this forum will discuss. Otherwise Atlanta here we come.

There are some big ideas out there. We need more.

What do you have in mind?

[Nashvilletitans]

Example The time to tackle problems such as open space and transit is before we infill all the neighborhoods.  Since this forum is Sobro area it would make sense that we i.e. Planning would want to determine were the transit corridors should be to connect to downtown.  such as KVB and 2nd ave s.  This in turn might mean we would encourage city parking structures on these transit/pedestrian/parking corridors.  Perhaps the bus city circulars might start driving on these routes or the current free parking to buses to LP field might begin driving and stop on these routes(which they do not).  These routes would have wider sidewalks for pedestrian travel as well or maybe connect to river greenway as well.  these routes may connect current or future pocket parks along way such as new riverfront park...

 

Many of these ideas are and have been floating out there. but the way I see it we do not follow thru with the ideas over time.  Example the Gateway Blvd and Bridge now KVB was studied and agreed upon by design meetings with public and the community should be a pedestrian friendly road.  it has one of the widest Right of ways.  But the process failed us over time.  The public works department with the state designed the road years later with side walks 8 feet wide per side.  The publics works department designed the road for road expansion not pedestrian friendly concepts starting with 4 lanes now becoming 6 or 7 lanes still with 8 foot sidewalks.  They even made the parcels fronting KVB with radius so cars could turn easier on the roads.  Not thinking that now all the future high rise buildings on KVB will have round edges,  block after block. how goofy is that.   the point of this is that even when there is good intensions "to design KVB pedestrian friendly" it is handed off to public works who truly cares very little about pedestrians and more concerned about roads flowing fast even around corners.  Or design guidelines for KVB  controlled by MDHA  that requires bldgs fronting it to have street presence.  Another good idea-then city builds a beautiful Convention center and this building that fronts several blocks of KVB has very little street presence.  Irony of this MDHA wrote the guidelines and is the convention center developer and reviewed the guidelines and enforced them on themselves.  NOT .  Another example of good ideas presented to community but not followed thru by various agencies.  MDHA had there own priorities and did not program the KVB guidelines into their project.

 

I do not mean to be a negative Nancy.  We as a community go thru planning processes time and again but the ideas usually are not implemented by the other government agencies.  There is no accountability with the these various agencies.  There are so many with their own agendas as well as politics. MDHA, public works, historic commission, planning, and mayors office.   I think we need a planning guru within one of the departments in charge of watching all of these projects over time to make sure they comply with design intents.   I think it takes that consistent long range plan that we have to stick to make progress on these big issues such as transit or open space issues.  Nashville typically does the legwork in studying the problem and spends the money.  But we often don't build what we planned.   

[nashvillwill]

^^^ I like this guy.

[Nashville Cliff]

I think we need a planning guru within one of the departments in charge of watching all of these projects over time to make sure they comply with design intents.   I think it takes that consistent long range plan that we have to stick to make progress on these big issues such as transit or open space issues.  Nashville typically does the legwork in studying the problem and spends the money.  But we often don't build what we planned.   

 

A friend of mine has suggested that the question we should be asking every mayoral candidate is when they disagree, which department would take priority in their administration, planning or public works.  I think that is a darn good question.

[rookzie]

Example The time to tackle problems such as open space and transit is before we infill all the neighborhoods.  Since this forum is Sobro area it would make sense that we i.e. Planning would want to determine were the transit corridors should be to connect to downtown.  such as KVB and 2nd ave s. 

 

...  the point of this is that even when there is good intensions "to design KVB pedestrian friendly" it is handed off to public works who truly cares very little about pedestrians and more concerned about roads flowing fast even around corners.

 

...There are so many with their own agendas as well as politics. MDHA, public works, historic commission, planning, and mayors office. ...  But we often don't build what we planned.   

 

I'm super-glad that someone openly agrees with me on this.  I've shared this several times, in some form or fashion, during the last 2 yrs, about the infill and transit, to the extent that elimination of many potential and pre-existing assets has made some once viable options no longer tenable.  One is the allowance of wholesale adaptive re-use of former railroad real estate for private development; the absence of foresight or discussion to consolidate efforts to restore intercity passenger rail and to integrate it into a central, truly intermodal multimodal transportation center with other intercity,  regional, and urban means of conveyance.  The agencies are granted such autonomous latitude of authority, along with lopsided-ly funded targets and frequently arbitrarily managed priorities, that we end up shepherding a bunch of disparate pork barrels, devoid of any continuity.

The absence of any incentive toward real, frequent, periodic, and substantive garnering attention and engagement of the public in unwavering dialog on civic issues such as transit ─ matters which should have been made tantamount to development stimulation if not more prioritized ─ has led to the present pre-crisis state where lack of accountability on the agency level has been manifested in "dimensional" and compounded testament.  What good is it for the commonweal to merely take up roadway lanes and pour sidewalks along 11th Ave. Industrial within the gulch, without any discussion and discourse whatsoever from the public to glean input on what it might have liked to have seen as part of a larger plan.  Clearly it was no more than a closed decision on a closed interest pet project, no matter what "good" intention might have been "spun" from that political move.  Again, another example of making unilateral decisions.  Eleventh Ave. arguably had been perhaps the sole remaining pathway potential to any decent north-south connection continuity between Monroe and Division Streets, primarily because of its broad RoW.

The mayor was so hell-bent on forging a limited-support start-up transit project connector, that he simply divested himself and the administration from any further commitment of attention with the public on discussion of the subject of transit-corridors, virtually since early last year (with his establishment of the so-called “Citizens Advisory Committee”), and instead passively has deferred all and any further deliberation and consideration to the succeeding administration.  This matter never should have defaulted, while other matters have maintained precedence.  A lot of additional infill has been undertaken in the meantime, and much more will have ensued prior to the upcoming elections.

 

[EDIT]  It's interesting timing that you have come out "from under", so to speak, while you say that you, "...have been reading urban planet for years and never posted."  You went on to say

 

"Nashville is at critical junction in terms of growth.  We have a great opportunity now. We are in the spot light nationwide.  What will we do with this opportunity?  Will we throw up (literally) every building that investors want because they see a demand for office buildings, apartments, hotels, and restaurants?  Or will be prudent?  So far a lot of throw up.  Not that aesthetics is everything.  The real issue in fast growth is the big picture BALANCE.  As we throw up mid rises and high rises, crane after crane pops up.  But is this energy, growth all good?.  This is the time we should be looking, not up at the beauty of high rises, but looking down at our streets, sidewalks, traffic, and transit.  Quality of life in Nashville and I will add great buildings is not based on scale but on detail.  Great design is not just on that beautiful top to that building (which is important) but in making the building work within the environment it resides in - the street, the people using the building, look up and down, relating to history.  Celebrating being there-not just glass, metal, and concrete.

 

As Nashville grows at this tremendous pace, we should be looking for new answers to solving old and new problems.  These new answers are not being talked about, and we get distracted by all the glitter and wrapping of our packages.  I fear we will infill so much that our downtown and mid town will be too congested and our suburbia will be spread out  to infinity.,,,," 

 

In consideration of the revelation concerning your direct role(s) in the Nashville Next concept, as referenced in the Gulch Projects thread, it might appear that you "came out", as of late, in an (understood) appeal to others who, in the medium of online, informal publishing, have a shared agenda on critically timed issues.  With the apparent validation of your active participation and awareness in an officially communal-minded planning activity, this reflection on the forum-conscientious and much of their UrbanPlanet-Nashville contributions as a vote of confidence, in a manner of speaking.

-==-

Edited May 19, 2015 by rookzie

[MidTenn1]

.  They even made the parcels fronting KVB with radius so cars could turn easier on the roads.  Not thinking that now all the future high rise buildings on KVB will have round edges,  block after block. how goofy is that.   the point of this is that even when there is good intensions "to design KVB pedestrian friendly" it is handed off to public works who truly cares very little about pedestrians and more concerned about roads flowing fast even around corners.  Or design guidelines for KVB  controlled by MDHA  that requires bldgs fronting it to have street presence.  

 

Good turning radii are very beneficial in improving traffic capacity and safety. They allow vehicles to make a turn at a reasonable speed without coming to an almost complete stop, which causes other through-traffic to come to a stop, thus increasing delay significantly and often increasing the number of rear-end collisions. 

 

But this is a typical argument in public planning and engineering circles. Over the years, traffic and transportation Engineers have had to battle against planners who are willing to sacrifice public safety and roadway efficiency for some immeasurable and marginal increase in some vague aesthetic concept. Talk about goofy!

 

Also, I sometimes like buildings with round corners.

 

Go Titans.

[Nashvilletitans]

Solving long range issues such as transit and open space take good planning, consistent planning,  commitment, and eliminating political distractions.  Nashville Rarely has had any of these qualities.  Sobro is a perfect example of where we could have changed from these old unsuccessful patterns.  We did a few things right in the beginning. (on a 0 to 10 scale -- 10 is good)  in somewhat chronological order.

1.  Build a iconic bridge with a visionary name (gateway)   +9

2.  Outline a wide pedestrian friendly 130 foot wide away headed toward gulch  with bus concepts and wide sidewalks-connecting east and west +9

3.  Creat design standards for development on proposed gateway blvd- tall buildings engaging a pedestrian friendly street.   +9

4.  Locate the future new convention center and hotel on the new blvd.   +9

5.  There is riverfront park and MDHA rolling mill sites for future dev  +9

 

At this point everything looks to good to be true-what a great plan for a future sobro.

 

6.  Past Mayor wanted a pet project with his name on it so he pushed for development of rolling mill hill- way too soon and project has not design connection to gateway blvd (and still does't) +3   (could have been a +9 if design had concepts connected to KVB)

7. Public works and TDOT design new blvd with small sidewalks, rounded city blocks, tree barrier in center of road, plans to widen street and turn lanes in future, and no transit or pedestrian concepts  +2  (could have been a +9 if they did not have PW design project and stuck to original plan concepts)

8.  Councilman who was a korean war vet. wants to honor vets so council changes gateway bridge to Korean vet. memorial bridge +2  

9.  Everyone still calls the bridge Gateway so councilman changes name of street from gateway blvd to korean vet. blvd. +2  (Better Being on the South Korea side than North Korea side)

10. developer builds Hampton Inn with a door on KVB that is locked   +2  (Did not have to be this way)

11. MDHA designs and builds convention center with little focus on KVB and puts primary focus on Dem. street and a great new side street plaza facing convention center hotel +3 (could have added focus to KVB  +7)

12. Developer designs and builds convention center hotel with an entrance on KVB  +7  

13. Build roundabout on KVB  +7  

14. City gives approval and permits for additional hotels on KVB with little street presence and very little retail +4 

15 downtown partnership does buses shuttling people to free parking to LP field parking but does not stop on KVB +3  ( Shuttles could stop on KVB  +9)

15.  Public works quietly starts adding more traffic lanes and turn lanes to KVB with no planning of mass transit +2

16  more parcels on KVB are being purchased for more hotels -developers do there own thing -good or bad  +5 (future projects could enhance KVB but are not +8)

17 design and build riverfront park and amphtheater that puts toilets on KVB +6 (design could have a relationship to KVB +9)

18 traffic is already bad on KVB with no transit concepts and many more buildings to come +1

19 maybe relocate the baptist office concept to rolling mill site on corner of 1st and KVB  +2  (Could be good but it won't)

 

Where did we go wrong with such a good plan and a good start

 

Unfortunately it is the structure of our city government and how they do things or perhaps don't manage ideas into reality.  The part that is sad was nashville was a pioneer consolidating city and county gov.   Looks like we need to do something or we will continue making the design and administrative mistakes.  

 

I am in favor of a smaller council from 40 self serving leaders to perhaps 27 that will work as a team.

[Nashvilletitans]

Good turning radii are very beneficial in improving traffic capacity and safety. They allow vehicles to make a turn at a reasonable speed without coming to an almost complete stop, which causes other through-traffic to come to a stop, thus increasing delay significantly and often increasing the number of rear-end collisions. 

 

But this is a typical argument in public planning and engineering circles. Over the years, traffic and transportation Engineers have had to battle against planners who are willing to sacrifice public safety and roadway efficiency for some immeasurable and marginal increase in some vague aesthetic concept. Talk about goofy!

 

Also, I sometimes like buildings with round corners.

 

Go Titans.

Rounding out corners of parcels does not enhance or effect the radius of the street curb and roads it only demonstrates the disconnect of the designs and concept from their priorities.  An engineer who was not monitored and had a circle template.   I also like a rounded corner once in a while but not for every block on both sides  of KVB

[Guest]

8, 9, 10 are all pet peeves of mine... along with renaming 8th N to Rosa Parks...

[Nashvilletitans]

What is going on in the gulch area is exciting.  So much great activity.  When I drive down to the heart of the gulch I sometimes get stuck in traffic.  There are not many ways to get into the gulch.  What if any are the best ways to avoid bad traffic into the gulch?  Also is there a plan for dealing with traffic as more of these buildings get built.

[rookzie]

What is going on in the gulch area is exciting.  So much great activity.  When I drive down to the heart of the gulch I sometimes get stuck in traffic.  There are not many ways to get into the gulch.  What if any are the best ways to avoid bad traffic into the gulch?  Also is there a plan for dealing with traffic as more of these buildings get built.

 

Yet another example from the "myriad".  You and I both made indirect reference to this issue in the postings within the CBD/SoBro thread a bit earlier (posts #3650-3655).  The ongoing infrastructure "improvements" along "gulch-way Trace" (Eleventh Ave.) promote a perhaps a pedestrian-oriented community along the passage from Charlotte to Division, but they cater only to that localized segment of activity, almost as if it were an intended enclave in its own right.  Something I mentioned at last Saturday's mini-meet is that Public Works has narrowed the traffic path to the extent that it will definitely have unintended consequences with MTA's recent re-routing of at least one of its lines (Nº 17) to traverse the entire north-south distance through that segment.  If anyone is to board a bus at all on that strip, then the buses will be forced to stop and disrupt any already impeded movement of traffic.  That plan, if it could be even remotely construed at all as planning, is such a flagrant disregard of practical concepts of mobility, that the end result will be almost reactionary at best, as I see it.  But of course the argument here is that the mayor can increase the count on linear sidewalk construction miles, even though the ones being replaced had not been nearly in such dire condition to warrant such immediate attention.

 

So as you by now see it, you and I almost can count on passage through the gulch to become yet more restrictive and agonizing.  They might as well be adding crossing gates at every corner.  Clogged arterials?  Nope, more like "constipation" brought on by unchecked, unconstrained and pigeon-holed development, which the administration sees perhaps as doing all it can to perpetuate a tide of development, while the gettin' is good.  Not quite as dramatic as Nero watching the fires, but....

-==-

Edited May 18, 2015 by rookzie

[samsonh]

What is going on in the gulch area is exciting.  So much great activity.  When I drive down to the heart of the gulch I sometimes get stuck in traffic.  There are not many ways to get into the gulch.  What if any are the best ways to avoid bad traffic into the gulch?  Also is there a plan for dealing with traffic as more of these buildings get built.

 

I drive often through the Gulch, and maybe it is just when I am going through, but I have never experience a traffic issue despite extensive construction.

 

But as to Rookzie's post below, the Gulch is not really an area designed to be driven through. As to the bus problem, the slow pace of buses in this city is a huge problem. In no other city have I seen passenger on loading and off loading take as long as in Nashville. It is quite bizarre to me.

Edited May 18, 2015 by samsonh

[CenterHill]

At some point, the valet stand at the intersection of 11th/12th in the Gulch is going to have to be removed or relocated.    This intersection is congested enough as it is and becoming more so with each passing month.   And with the Thompson Hotel construction barriers now in place, we have a classic bottleneck situation.     If you've ever tried to navigate southbound through there around the afternoon rush hour, you know what I'm talking about.  

Edited May 18, 2015 by CenterHill

[Nashvilletitans]

I was hoping this was not the case.  I wonder if we are domed by our own success.  

 

I thought part of our brand was that we would be smarter in growth 

 

Luckily there an election and a new mayor and mostly new council.    I hope that one of the biggest issues in the election will be quality of life issues such as traffic/transit/open space and good quality growth.  

 

Would like to see someone that understands the problem but is not a broken politition with aspirations of their own grandeur.  Need someone who is smart and understands that change (which is what we badly need before it is to late) is going to make a lot of people mad in the short run but happy in the long run.  The neighborhoods and nimbyism in my opinion are too powerful in this town for their own good. Neighborhoods as a whole want the development anywhere but their neighborhood.  Easiest solution for neighborhoods is say midtown downtown.  Takes only a few years of large fast growth to creat traffic nightmares in gulch/sobro/vanderbilt areas.

 

500K people in twenty years that is about 20K people a year.  how do we solve this growth by neighborhood

West nashville Bellemeade/hillwood...     100

North nashville downtown                        2000

Downtown                                                2000

Vanderbilt/midtown                                   1000

east nashville                                             1000

north west nashville                                     300

​

as you can see we are concentrating all our growth to the center which makes sense but we have no transit plan in place.  One can only grow this much in the center for a limited number of years. 

How do we solve this puzzle each year.  year after year and not hit saturation point.  We will at some point in very near future have to creat higher density centers away from the core such as green hills, belle meade, charlotte/sylvan park,  south nashville maybe bells bend etc.  creat an outer ring of density centers that are interconnected.  That have there own cores and transit hubs that could cannect to downtown core

 

change is much better than the final results without change. Change can have a plan that could be followed verses no real plan and only solutions are bandages that are expensive and nearly imposable to successful implement.  All that is left is a scared body that is prone to infections.  

 

So lets support candidates that are willing to talk about real change and sacrifices that we must make to adopt real change

Edited May 18, 2015 by Nashvilletitans

[nashvillwill]

You guys are talking heartily about traffic in the gulch. Is it really that bad? I'm not a resident and I rarely go through there during rush, so I don't know. But I've never seen more that light congestion through there. In fact, I usually opt for the zig-zag gulch route, vs. the congestion on 8th/Rosa. Is it REALLY that bad, or is it just an inconvenient slow point? Does it take more than 2-3 minutes to get through?

I'm not trying to argue, I just haven't experienced it, so I don't know. Just gauging if this is really a serious problem (hence all the discussion), or just an annoyance for Gulch residents on that "final 1000 feet to home".

[rookzie]

I was hoping this was not the case.  I wonder if we are domed by our own success.  

 

I thought part of our brand was that we would be smarter in growth 

 

Luckily there an election and a new mayor and mostly new council.    I hope that one of the biggest issues in the election will be quality of life issues such as traffic/transit/open space and good quality growth.  

 

Would like to see someone that understands the problem but is not a broken politition with aspirations of their own grandeur.  Need someone who is smart and understands that change (which is what we badly need before it is to late) is going to make a lot of people mad in the short run but happy in the long run.  The neighborhoods and nimbyism in my opinion are too powerful in this town for their own good. Neighborhoods as a whole want the development anywhere but their neighborhood.  Easiest solution for neighborhoods is say midtown downtown.  Takes only a few years of large fast growth to creat traffic nightmares in gulch/sobro/vanderbilt areas.

 

500K people in twenty years that is about 20K people a year.  how do we solve this growth by neighborhood

West nashville Bellemeade/hillwood...     100

North nashville                                         2000

Downtown                                                2000

Vanderbilt/midtown

How do we dove this puzzle each year.  So lets see ho

w we can find a place for so the obvious Not changing owner the years is what gets us into the traffic mess(that will get worse quickly with no solution planned).   the change is much better than the final results without change. 

 

Now you know why I would vote for you as a Write-in, don't you?

-==-

[Rockatansky]

>>>500K people in twenty years that is about 20K people a year. 

 

What is the source of this data? What geography is it for? According the projections I've seen Nashville/Metro/Davidson County is expected to grow by 100k-120k over the next 20 years.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Rockatansky

[PruneTracy]

Good turning radii are very beneficial in improving traffic capacity and safety. They allow vehicles to make a turn at a reasonable speed without coming to an almost complete stop, which causes other through-traffic to come to a stop, thus increasing delay significantly and often increasing the number of rear-end collisions. 

 

But this is a typical argument in public planning and engineering circles. Over the years, traffic and transportation Engineers have had to battle against planners who are willing to sacrifice public safety and roadway efficiency for some immeasurable and marginal increase in some vague aesthetic concept. Talk about goofy!

 

Also, I sometimes like buildings with round corners.

 

Go Titans.

 

To expand upon this, reducing curb radii at intersections benefits pedestrian users by reducing crosswalk length and vehicle turning speed. It represents a trade-off between the interests of vehicular and pedestrian traffic, though it seems like most people in the transportation infrastructure business just want to focus on one at the detriment of the other.

 

While we obviously don't need 300' radii with slip lanes in the CBD, it's also important not to forget about vehicles, not simply for reasons of capacity and safety as mentioned, but also because there exists a minimum radius that a given type of vehicle can turn at any speed. You decide to ignore that minimum, you end up with this—

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.157869,-86.77258,3a,75y,100.65h,45.03t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sLlp-bLqklVzA4laUyQL0ig!2e0

 

—which is a long-term maintenance problem, shortening the lifespan of the curb and leading to ADA compliance problems. I'm also told that people don't like having their toes run over by trucks while they are standing on the sidewalk. Whiners, the lot.

 

The new section of KVB has 20' radii; the old section has a mixture ranging from 40' to 5' (pictured above). I think 20' is a reasonable compromise considering the truck traffic to and from the MCC.

 

Rounding out corners of parcels does not enhance or effect the radius of the street curb and roads it only demonstrates the disconnect of the designs and concept from their priorities.  An engineer who was not monitored and had a circle template.   I also like a rounded corner once in a while but not for every block on both sides  of KVB

 

Metro GIS shows that parcel corners are rounded only up to Fourth Avenue, and even then some of those are squared off.

 

Also, I like rounded corners too. Turns some of our glass boxes into glass beveled rectangular prisms.

Edited May 18, 2015 by PruneTracy

[rookzie]

You guys are talking heartily about traffic in the gulch. Is it really that bad? I'm not a resident and I rarely go through there during rush, so I don't know. But I've never seen more that light congestion through there. In fact, I usually opt for the zig-zag gulch route, vs. the congestion on 8th/Rosa. Is it REALLY that bad, or is it just an inconvenient slow point? Does it take more than 2-3 minutes to get through?

I'm not trying to argue, I just haven't experienced it, so I don't know. Just gauging if this is really a serious problem (hence all the discussion), or just an annoyance for Gulch residents on that "final 1000 feet to home".

 

Yes, it really is.  The Pine St light, the reduction in number of through lanes from point to point; the Thompson; on-street parking activity (into and out of); should I go on?  No it's not a crisis, so we don't need anyone with a staff to part the "sea", so to speak ─ not yet anyway.  But with the progression of construction and activity which you almost can wager on, it will be getting significantly worse.  The issue that Nashvilletitans brought up about transit corridors (which needs rekindling, it seems) is one of my pet peeves about the Gulch transformation gone wild.  That should have been been planned in part as a transit corridor ─ I'll just say it outright ─ and you surely can't easily if at all do that with 8thAve-Rosa Parks.  Thing with 11th is that 11th could have been made to transition in with 10th by the tobacco factory, as I had suggested in 2 posts way back (in at least one other thread).  I'm talking about a long-term downtown crosstown transit-corridor solution potential, a last frontier which is about to be "eaten" up without a trace.

 

I guarantee one day you will start to get yourself hung up in a snarl in the Gulch, on 12th or 11th.  Maybe not this spring or even next fall, but you will.  It only takes once or twice.

-==-

Edited May 18, 2015 by rookzie

[Nashvilletitans]

 

>>>500K people in twenty years that is about 20K people a year. 

 

What is the source of this data? What geography is it for? According the projections I've seen Nashville/Metro/Davidson County is expected to grow by 100k-120k over the next 20 years.

 

 

There is no source for predicting the future.  But perhaps 1M people might move to nashville vicinity in 20 or 30 years.  Depending how attractive and how we plan and resolve growth problems will determine how many will choose to located in nashville or outside of nashville.  Just like how we plan our future growth means how many companies will locate in nashville our outside of nashville.  there is no number.   the number is determined my the market and how attractive the product of growth is.  If we do a great job planning our growth we could get maybe half the growth in nashville (which would be good for out tax base only if we can keep a good quality of life).  

 

And if we get 100k of the future 1M growth nashville will be in big trouble tax base wise and boy the communtes on the future 10 lane interstates and the construction -that is a terrible outcome for our great city. Why would we want to make a plan that puts nashville in a terrible position.   And if the outside nashville gets 900k in the future all the money will have to be spent dealing with that problem leaving nashville weak and broke. then if nashville is weak and broke the perimeter will suffer as well.  So plan for a good future

 

I have been scratching my head over this issue with nashville next concept - they are trying to make a plan of the  eventual downfall of nashville in a way.  I discussed it with the staff.  I think it was challenging enough for them to make a plan for 150k of growth.  ( of course they did not solve the mess of the outside growth of say 850 K-that is someone else's problem)  Maybe they felt it was to big a challenge for the staff and participants to come up with a plan for 500k growth.  Now that would be a great plan and if we only got 150k then easy solution there  I think it is better to raise the bar and plan on real prosperity and not the crumbs

 

so you are right their is no source of data.  but I would rather fight and project a great nashville that out numbers the surrounding cities

[rookzie]

 

 

>>>500K people in twenty years that is about 20K people a year. 

 

What is the source of this data? What geography is it for? According the projections I've seen Nashville/Metro/Davidson County is expected to grow by 100k-120k over the next 20 years.

 

 

 

I have been scratching my head over this issue with nashville next concept - they are trying to make a plan of the  eventual downfall of nashville in a way.  I discussed it with the staff.  I think it was challenging enough for them to make a plan for 150k of growth.  ( of course they did not solve the mess of the outside growth of say 850 K-that is someone else's problem)  Maybe they felt it was to big a challenge for the staff and participants to come up with a plan for 500k growth.  Now that would be a great plan and if we only got 150k then easy solution there  I think it is better to raise the bar and plan on real prosperity and not the crumbs

 

 

You did, eh?  (hm-m-m-m-m.  this "staff")

-==-

[Nashvilletitans]

To expand upon this, reducing curb radii at intersections benefits pedestrian users by reducing crosswalk length and vehicle turning speed. It represents a trade-off between the interests of vehicular and pedestrian traffic, though it seems like most people in the transportation infrastructure business just want to focus on one at the detriment of the other.

 

While we obviously don't need 300' radii with slip lanes in the CBD, it's also important not to forget about vehicles, not simply for reasons of capacity and safety as mentioned, but also because there exists a minimum radius that a given type of vehicle can turn at any speed. You decide to ignore that minimum, you end up with this—

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.157869,-86.77258,3a,75y,100.65h,45.03t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sLlp-bLqklVzA4laUyQL0ig!2e0

 

—which is a long-term maintenance problem, shortening the lifespan of the curb and leading to ADA compliance problems. I'm also told that people don't like having their toes run over by trucks while they are standing on the sidewalk. Whiners, the lot.

 

The new section of KVB has 20' radii; the old section has a mixture ranging from 40' to 5' (pictured above). I think 20' is a reasonable compromise considering the truck traffic to and from the MCC.

 

 

Metro GIS shows that parcel corners are rounded only up to Fourth Avenue, and even then some of those are squared off.

 

Also, I like rounded corners too. Turns some of our glass boxes into glass beveled rectangular prisms.

Ist thru fourth were the first phase construction done years ago.  I believe that perhaps they did not do this in the KVB expansion because they realized that in phase one the first four blocks that they did not need to repeat the same mistake.  I vividly remember when they were doing the drawings before they built gateway/KVB I spoke to the planning staff and they were unaware that the parcels had radius corners.  they told me it was to late to change.  I remember that clearly because I thought it was foolish then - I am glad that phase two did not repeat the same mistake(in my opinion)

[Nashvilletitans]

Now you know why I would vote for you as a Write-in, don't you?

-==-

I value my time to much to want to be mayor.  Uh and the friends they have to keep.  There are other ways to help nashville be a great city and change for the future.