Learning from Other Places

[davidclt]

2 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Ouch.  How do we develop 'quirkiness' and identity, without sacrificing practicality?  Will Charlotte ever shake this vanilla reputation? Should we?

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a-tale-of-two-cities-portland-offers-a-worrying-example-for-seattle/?amp=1

This piece was written by Jon Talon who was at The Charlotte Observer from 1996-2000 (about the time I returned from Seattle). The Charlotte he remembers is the same city in name only (mostly?). We're not as weird and quirky as Portland, Seattle or Asheville but we are growing . . . and growing up (and becoming a place I think). I think he might be a little surprised by what our humble and "trifling place" is becoming.

[videtur quam contuor]

I read articles online about the homelessness and drug issues and street drug use and the knock on effects in cities such as Portland and Seattle. I read nothing about fentanyl syringes in the streets here, incoherent dopers languid on streets, open defecation and the other degradations of human character that assign to such conditions. Is there no fentanyl (or other similar drug) issue on our streets? I separate the drug use that is private in homes and autos of those who can afford to cover their use until it overwhelms them from this street/open use that is especially distressing and difficult to treat. Am I naive or missing it?

[Windsurfer]

10 hours ago, davidclt said:

This piece was written by Jon Talon who was at The Charlotte Observer from 1996-2000 (about the time I returned from Seattle). The Charlotte he remembers is the same city in name only (mostly?). We're not as weird and quirky as Portland, Seattle or Asheville but we are growing . . . and growing up (and becoming a place I think). I think he might be a little surprised by what our humble and "trifling place" is becoming.

I also don't think of Cincinnati as being bland. It's pretty interesting, albeit dying a little.  Perhaps Columbus.

[15895]

From @RisingRealEst on X.

infill housing going up in every crack and crevice in Philadelphia. The density of Philly always surprises me having been there including the observation deck, being somewhat familiar. Then I see a picture of an area I never saw and it’s still just insane density. 
 

 

The moral of the story is getting more dense housing outside of the few pockets (uptown, SouthEnd, NoDa, Plaza) and start building more and more throughout the entire inner core. Obviously it won’t resemble Philly anytime soon but still. More housing around the core. 

[KJHburg]

Meanwhile up in Raleigh after a year test pilot program for their social district they are expanding it.

https://downtownraleigh.org/sip-n-stroll

here in  Charlotte......

Edited August 15, 2023 by KJHburg

[carolinaboy]

21 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Meanwhile up in Raleigh after a year test pilot program for their social district they are expanding it.

https://downtownraleigh.org/sip-n-stroll

here in  Charlotte......

Small downtowns in the far east also....Edenton, Washington and Tarboro approved social districts. Elizabeth City working on proposal.

[KJHburg]

12 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

Small downtowns in the far east also....Edenton, Washington and Tarboro approved social districts. Elizabeth City working on proposal.

and Wilson, Greenville and Manteo.  Somehow Charlotte has made it very difficult to get one set up for some reason adding a layer of bureaucracy that is stifling these social districts 

[KJHburg]

The Charlotte Urbanists and a few from Charlotte UP made the trip up to Greensboro and took a walking tour around downtown. 

Downtown Greensboro excels in historical renovations and adaptive reuse of buildings. 

Their new Tanger Center is a great success and has brought over 405,000 people downtown in its first years.

the LeBauer park downtown is great with 2 food and beverage options.  The park was built because a local doctor left $10M for the park!  

Streetside dining up and down South Elm Street.

Taiwo the former planning director of Charlotte now the Greensboro city manager mentioned downtown Greensboro has 38% of its land for surface parking but Charlotte was only a little better at 28%.   Yes they are building more municipal parking decks but getting rid of surface parking at the same time.  Don't worry Charlotte we still have the most massive parking garages of any city in the Carolinas.  

Lots of room for more development and despite what some may think of Boom Supersonic Greensboro has a very bright future with Toyota to the southeast, expanding HondaJet at PTI airport, Marshall Aerospace coming there too.  

Oh yeah Greensboro since 2006 has had an intermodal transit facility with Amtrak station, local city and regional buses like Greyhound and PART all in one location.  Plus the station is restored 1926 train station. 

[KJHburg]

Taiwo also mentioned this program in Greensboro for the homeless who might live in their cars.  From my experiences in Concord this is something that happens here locally.  

This is a great idea. Not a permanent solution but can help these people with safetly. 

https://www.wfdd.org/story/greensboro-opens-new-safe-parking-site-those-experiencing-homelessness#:~:text=It's called Safe Parking and,for up to 35 cars.

[DJ8hep]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

The Charlotte Urbanists and a few from Charlotte UP made the trip up to Greensboro and took a walking tour around downtown. 

Downtown Greensboro excels in historical renovations and adaptive reuse of buildings. 

Their new Tanger Center is a great success and has brought over 405,000 people downtown in its first years.

the LeBauer park downtown is great with 2 food and beverage options.  The park was built because a local doctor left $10M for the park!  

Streetside dining up and down South Elm Street.

Taiwo the former planning director of Charlotte now the Greensboro city manager mentioned downtown Greensboro has 38% of its land for surface parking but Charlotte was only a little better at 28%.   Yes they are building more municipal parking decks but getting rid of surface parking at the same time.  Don't worry Charlotte we still have the most massive parking garages of any city in the Carolinas.  

Lots of room for more development and despite what some may think of Boom Supersonic Greensboro has a very bright future with Toyota to the southeast, expanding HondaJet at PTI airport, Marshall Aerospace coming there too.  

Oh yeah Greensboro since 2006 has had an intermodal transit facility with Amtrak station, local city and regional buses like Greyhound and PART all in one location.  Plus the station is restored 1926 train station. 

Thank you @KJHburg  for a great introduction to Greensboro for me! I loved the adaptive reuse as well as the street side dinning! I look forward to visiting again!

[kayman]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:16 AM, KJHburg said:

and Wilson, Greenville and Manteo.  Somehow Charlotte has made it very difficult to get one set up for some reason adding a layer of bureaucracy that is stifling these social districts 

Yeah the bureaucracy is called "Charlotte is a city too d*mn big to be ran by a city manager who doesn't care to do much innovation and a part-time mayor & city council."

Raleigh is around half of Charlotte's size and fewer eligible social districts areas so it's easier to start in and expand it.

Charlotte is a nearly 1 million in population city with a government structure setup to accommodate a small town so it's not as easy to do things when it needs full-time elected officials to enact policy changes without much guidance on how to implement those changes. 

If you're thinking it's really comparable, it's really not. 

 

[KJHburg]

Here is the city guidelines and it looks like Plaza Midwood will be applying to become a social district this week to the city council.

https://www.charlottenc.gov/files/sharedassets/city/city-government/initiatives-and-involvement/documents/social-districts/social-districts-sandp-final.pdf

other cities large and small have helped their downtown or business districts through the process.  I dont buy it that Charlotte is so huge that it can't help these local neighborhood groups with this process.  Taiwo the former chief city planner of Charlotte now the city manager of Greensboro told us the social district in downtown Greensboro is working very well. 

[kayman]

8 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Here is the city guidelines and it looks like Plaza Midwood will be applying to become a social district this week to the city council.

https://www.charlottenc.gov/files/sharedassets/city/city-government/initiatives-and-involvement/documents/social-districts/social-districts-sandp-final.pdf

other cities large and small have helped their downtown or business districts through the process.  I dont buy it that Charlotte is so huge that it can't help these local neighborhood groups with this process.  Taiwo the former chief city planner of Charlotte now the city manager of Greensboro told us the social district in downtown Greensboro is working very well. 

You don't buy because you're looking for fault in the staff when the current setup doesn't work because of a fatally flawed framework. You can't go  seamlessly if you have a governmental structure to work best for a small town or medium-sized city. Either of Charlotte is not nor has been in nearly 30 years now. 

Taiwo bounced because of the fatal flaws he observed and he saw an opportunity to lead without those flaws in his way. 

For example, the impact fees recommendation that EVERYONE including ULI recommends for Charlotte to properly implement for the Transportation Management and Traffic Impact Analysis portion of the 2040 Plan. Yet the NCGA blocks Mecklenburg County from doing it when Wake, Durham, and Orange are allowed to implement that very strategy with little to no negative impacts. Ironically, York and Lancaster counties in South Carolina can as well so it shows the fatal flaws in the structure, and Taiwo was for but left after being blocked at every turn in implementation. 

Charlotte is an anomaly but not what it's doing because anyone who has awareness of public administration and policy functions can see it. The state blocks a lot of things that would allow Charlotte help itself that because it doesn't want to make exceptions to the policy just because.  Having part-time elected officials to enforce that is a major part of this for an extremely dynamic jurisdiction. 

This social district policy is just another one of those examples.

Edited August 21, 2023 by kayman

[elrodvt]

If that's true about inequity between cities why isn't this in court right now? It's only an impression but It seems like they quietly take what ever they're hit with. Maybe make a stink?

[15895]

1 minute ago, elrodvt said:

If that's true about inequity between cities why isn't this in court right now? It's only an impression but It seems like they quietly take what ever they're hit with. Maybe make a stink?

Because the State has the rights to do so, no? 
 

It may not be fair, but it’s legal? 

Edited August 21, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[elrodvt]

22 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Because the State has the rights to do so, no? 
 

It may not be fair, but it’s legal? 

I don't know, I'm asking.

Since the higher courts sadly are often political, not legal, bodies these days why wasn't it argued before the NC supreme switched GOP? I'm not disputing anything that's been said, you guys know much, much more. However, it seems like we're being awfully passive. Is there no way to fight!?! The NCGA is overstepping right and left but the average citizen probably has zero awareness of the impact on their life. 

[kayman]

4 hours ago, elrodvt said:

If that's true about inequity between cities why isn't this in court right now? It's only an impression but It seems like they quietly take what ever they're hit with. Maybe make a stink?

See the post by @AirNostrumMAD for the answer

4 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Because the State has the rights to do so, no? 
 

It may not be fair, but it’s legal? 

 

4 hours ago, elrodvt said:

I don't know, I'm asking.

Since the higher courts sadly are often political, not legal, bodies these days why wasn't it argued before the NC supreme switched GOP? I'm not disputing anything that's been said, you guys know much, much more. However, it seems like we're being awfully passive. Is there no way to fight!?! The NCGA is overstepping right and left but the average citizen probably has zero awareness of the impact on their life. 

Well from my vantage point, many progressive NC citizens are some of the most passive I've ever seen in the numerous states I've resided in.  Progressives have the power and upper hand but too many are too busy waxing poetically about yesteryears of presumed harmonious peace.  Far too many so-called conservatives are just power-hungry racists & fascists who want to strip everyone not white Christian heterosexual males of basic rights. There should have been long ago a major progressive pushback.

Edited August 22, 2023 by kayman

[jthomas]

21 hours ago, kayman said:

Far too many so-called conservatives are just power-hungry racists & fascists who want to strip everyone not white Christian heterosexual males of basic rights. There should have been long ago a major progressive pushback.

Over the top and painting with a broad brush much? Far be it from me to defend any state- or national-level Republican, but it amazes me that so many progressives can't connect the dots between rhetoric like the above, and the vexing staying power of Trump and his ilk. 

[Durhamite]

1 hour ago, jthomas said:

Over the top and painting with a broad brush much? Far be it from me to defend any state- or national-level Republican, but it amazes me that so many progressives can't connect the dots between rhetoric like the above, and the vexing staying power of Trump and his ilk. 

Poll numbers state the obvious and not sure if “cult” is the best description but no way in hell the Dems/Progressives stand by your man like that. Progressive condescending rhetoric pales in comparison to that tribe of poor souls who spew things that when it’s contested or matched, some say you should be ashamed, can’t you see these people have been bamboozled with something not of this planet or maybe galaxy…#sad

 

[kayman]

5 hours ago, jthomas said:

Over the top and painting with a broad brush much? Far be it from me to defend any state- or national-level Republican, but it amazes me that so many progressives can't connect the dots between rhetoric like the above, and the vexing staying power of Trump and his ilk. 

No it's not. The laws and bs speaks for itself.  The 12-week abortion ban, Don't Say Gay 2.0 aka "Parents Bill of Rights", HB2 AKA "Bathroom Bill" is proof. You can cozy yourself up to delusions of white nationalism grandeur but I'm built to pushback with facts & stats. You can respond with  if you want but those above policies are proof of racism and fascism movements.  Yet, 600,000+ eligible North Carolinians are awaiting their Medicaid expansion to be funded that was promised in writing by the conservative leadership in the NCGA.

NC Progressives ought to take a number from Wisconsin and Michigan progressives, two non-coastal, non (so-called) liberal states and pushback really hard. 

We need a state law allowing municipalities to have total home rule, options of strong mayor-council, weak mayor-council, or council-manager municipal governments. It's clear that forcing everyone into everyone into having only council-manager where an incompetent city manager could be shielded by bureaucracy in such a major city like Charlotte because it has a part-time mayor & city council who is told what they should know. Also it makes sense to have the options of having different branches of government that allows elected officials especially in the executive branch to lead and be the face of a city that its citizens can elect or not re-elected if they are not doing their job. 

3 hours ago, Durhamite said:

Poll numbers state the obvious and not sure if “cult” is the best description but no way in hell the Dems/Progressives stand by your man like that. Progressive condescending rhetoric pales in comparison to that tribe of poor souls who spew things that when it’s contested or matched, some say you should be ashamed, can’t you see these people have been bamboozled with something not of this planet or maybe galaxy…#sad

 

Thank you! 

Edited August 23, 2023 by kayman

[jthomas]

10 hours ago, kayman said:

You can cozy yourself up to delusions of white nationalism grandeur but I'm built to pushback with facts & stats. 

Ummm - what? Can you point me to which part of my comment was "cozying up to delusions of white nationalism grandeur"? I specifically said I was not defending any state or national level Republican - almost all of them are hell-bent on doing whatever it takes to stay in power, even though they have no constructive plan of what to do with said power, and even if it requires destroying the foundations of our country to stay in power. I do not support that.

10 hours ago, kayman said:

We need a state law allowing municipalities to have total home rule, options of strong mayor-council, weak mayor-council, or council-manager municipal governments. It's clear that forcing everyone into everyone into having only council-manager where an incompetent city manager could be shielded by bureaucracy in such a major city like Charlotte because it has a part-time mayor & city council who is told what they should know. Also it makes sense to have the options of having different branches of government that allows elected officials especially in the executive branch to lead and be the face of a city that its citizens can elect or not re-elected if they are not doing their job. 

I really do appreciate your contributions to this forum, and you have a lot of good ideas like the above, which I agree would be a more effective form of government.  But it's really hard for me to get on board with you when you are so quick to roll out the rhetorical big guns and just blast away anyone who disagrees with you as ignorant, bigoted, etc. From your posts, I gather that you work professionally in a political or political-adjacent field. Personally, I think you would do well to try and better understand the motivations of your opposition (note that I said opposition, not enemy). You might even discover that it's possible for people to have sincere, good-faith beliefs that are different from your own.

And before you label me again, please note that I am NOT referring to Trump, Phil Berger, Tim Moore, etc. I don't like them any more than you do. But the answer to the question of "why did 45% of Americans vote for Trump?" is a lot more nuanced than "45% of Americans are bigoted white nationalists". Understanding and respecting that nuance would probably get you a lot further in advancing the type of change that you want to see.

[kayman]

3 hours ago, jthomas said:

Ummm - what? Can you point me to which part of my comment was "cozying up to delusions of white nationalism grandeur"? I specifically said I was not defending any state or national level Republican - almost all of them are hell-bent on doing whatever it takes to stay in power, even though they have no constructive plan of what to do with said power, and even if it requires destroying the foundations of our country to stay in power. I do not support that.

I really do appreciate your contributions to this forum, and you have a lot of good ideas like the above, which I agree would be a more effective form of government.  But it's really hard for me to get on board with you when you are so quick to roll out the rhetorical big guns and just blast away anyone who disagrees with you as ignorant, bigoted, etc. From your posts, I gather that you work professionally in a political or political-adjacent field. Personally, I think you would do well to try and better understand the motivations of your opposition (note that I said opposition, not enemy). You might even discover that it's possible for people to have sincere, good-faith beliefs that are different from your own.

And before you label me again, please note that I am NOT referring to Trump, Phil Berger, Tim Moore, etc. I don't like them any more than you do. But the answer to the question of "why did 45% of Americans vote for Trump?" is a lot more nuanced than "45% of Americans are bigoted white nationalists". Understanding and respecting that nuance would probably get you a lot further in advancing the type of change that you want to see.

I get the results I need daily outside of this forum because I'm pragmatic with moderate individuals. As I have plenty of observational awareness and social/emotional intelligence of situations and environments. However, NC Progressives are too complacent and passive when they should be pushing back against power-hungry bigots implementing problems into everyone collective lives.  Especially, Charlotte trying to implement plans and initiatives unique to its jurisdiction.

Thanks but no thanks for the backhand  compliments. As a black queer male in a tremulous social time, I don't work with nor respect extremist bigots who regress things to a time when people like myself are killed for being themselves and minding their business while living lives. You can as you are not impacted by these things.  You've shown your hand of willful ignorance, blindspots, and acting like a victim when it wasn't about you. 

All that other rhetoric posted was unnecessary as you could have just not responsed. 

I'm done speaking with you for good. Goodbye.

Edited August 23, 2023 by kayman

[jthomas]

^My apologies for participating in the train wreck above. To get this thread back on track (and to continue the train puns), I'll give an update on another historic renovation being planned in Greensboro.

On 8/19/2023 at 7:19 PM, KJHburg said:

The Charlotte Urbanists and a few from Charlotte UP made the trip up to Greensboro and took a walking tour around downtown. 

Downtown Greensboro excels in historical renovations and adaptive reuse of buildings. 

 

As @KJHburg mentioned, Greensboro has done a great job of preserving many historic structures, particularly along South Elm Street downtown. Currently, there are efforts underway to save the 1899 Southern Railway Passenger Depot (not to be confused with Greensboro's current Amtrak station, which is located in the restored Southern Railway station that opened in 1926). This is what the building looks like now:

Norfolk Southern owned the building for many years and used it as office and storage space. But now, ownership of the building has been transferred to the North Carolina Railroad Company, which plans to restore the building for commercial and community use, and to develop the rest of the parcel that the depot sits on. Here's what the depot used to look like:

Plans for the building and the site are still developing, but restoration of the upper pitched roof and the round turret roof are central to the concept. There is a lot of momentum behind this project from the city of Greensboro, the NCRR, and private parties. It will be exciting to see how this project evolves. Here is another historical photo of the depot. Note the Cascade Saloon building directly across the tracks - that building was a notable recent historic save in Greensboro, and that project is serving in many ways as a template for the current project.

[KJHburg]

Yes the Cascade Saloon building was called unsalvageable by many in the city but a contractor stepped forward and made it their headquarters the Christman company.  If the building was torn down it is my understanding it would could be rebuilt as it in railroad right of way.  Charlotte could learn a lot from Greensboro about historical buildings preservation.  

[videtur quam contuor]

Dry goods from wiki :

In US customary units, most units of volume exist both in a dry and a liquid version, with the same name, but different values: the dry hogshead, dry barrel, dry gallon, dry quart, dry pint, etc. The bushel and the peck are only used for dry goods. Imperial units of volume are the same for both dry and liquid goods. They have a different value from both the dry and liquid US versions.

Many of the units are associated with particular goods, so for instance the dry hogshead has been used for sugar and for tobacco, and the peck for apples. There are also special measures for specific goods, such as the cord of wood, the sack, the bale of wool or cotton, the box of fruit, etc.