Learning from Other Places

[smeagolsfree]

50 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

interesting design for this green apartment tower in Milan.  It looks like it was developed by Hines of Houston.   (and we can't even get a couple of vines to grown on a parking garage_ 

https://www.archdaily.com/777498/bosco-verticale-stefano-boeri-architetti

https://www.stefanoboeriarchitetti.net/en/project/vertical-forest/

 

Be careful what you wish for. Had a really bad freeze here and took a toll on a lot of plants including ivy growing on The 1 Hotel downtown. I think they are going to have to replant it.

[elrodvt]

I'd still wish for it as it would show we're trying to not look like just another crappy Sunbelt city. Wiki says the units are over 18k euro per SQ meter. If my math is right an upper level small 2 bed (in US terms) would be well north of $2M.

Per numerous articles I've read developers here cannot get funding for residential owner owned projects with much more modestly priced units. So not remotely in our future right? Is that still true and can someone explain why it's that way? It doesn't seem to be an issue in other cities now?

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

I'd still wish for it as it would show we're trying to not look like just another crappy Sunbelt city. Wiki says the units are over 18k euro per SQ meter. If my math is right an upper level small 2 bed (in US terms) would be well north of $2M.

Per numerous articles I've read developers here cannot get funding for residential owner owned projects with much more modestly priced units. So not remotely in our future right? Is that still true and can someone explain why it's that way? It doesn't seem to be an issue in other cities now?

to build a high rise condo tower in this environment would require sky high prices like $1 M per unit or close to it.  Go to Durham where the Novus is being built.  The building is half apartments on the lower levels of this 27 story tower and condos on the upper floors but check out their prices.

Could this be done here in Charlotte?  Perhaps but it would have to be like this I would think with rentals and for sale units.  And prices would be like this.  

https://www.thenovus.com/availability

what we need to do is convert one of our existing high rises from office to residential and include some condos in it.   Like the 32 story old 2 Wells Fargo tower on S Tryon built in the 1970s. 

[elrodvt]

Agree, Converting would be great. 

[videtur quam contuor]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/03/11/upshot/office-conversions.html

Four weeks ago the Times had a story with graphics about converting office buildings to residential. Older buildings that have operable windows are better options. The Reynolds building in W-S was mentioned and photograph included.

It’s an elegant circle of city life: The very qualities that have made these buildings outdated as offices now make them ideal candidates for apartments.

For modern buildings (post WWII and mostly 1970+) one answer  is to carve a courtyard airspace from the middle of the building as in 180 Water Street. Great graphics and photos as usual for the Times and worth the read if you have or can obtain access.

 

[DJ8hep]

I would love to work on a project converting one of the uptown towers to a residential building. A handful of projects I have been working on have been small upgrades to existing buildings which I find incredibly fascinating. Part of why I love that type of project is not only to they require a tremendous amount of design work, they also need a fair amount of research and investigation as well.
Every building has a story, and this kind of project would unravel secrets of its history; the successes and failures of how it was initially built as well as the many modifications it had over the years.

[KJHburg]

check out Greystar's Ascent St Pete (same developer of uptown tower by same name Ascent and the upcoming Southend tower)   Like this design for 36 story tower.  Notice how the parking is screened on the front.  

https://ascentstpete.com/

[elrodvt]

That's nice looking. 

They missed out by not having docks for residents boats on the top of the parking structure though.

 

Edit; evidently, based on a reaction, that's not clear or not funny but the point was that within the lifespan of the building the base will be underwater.

Edited April 14, 2023 by elrodvt

[KJHburg]

Concord has a program like this and so does Raleigh.  A pop up shop program for their downtowns.  Hmmm think we could do this in Charlotte in the 1000s of square feet of vacant retail space uptown???  Hello  Center City Partners?   why not?

https://downtownraleigh.org/do-business/pop-up-shops

From the Triangle Biz Journal:

""A space designed to activate Downtown Raleigh’s retail scene has a new tenant.

The Pop-Up Shops at Martin Street, a concept run by the Downtown Raleigh Alliance, has a new small-business participant. Frills Atelier, a sustainable fashion accessory shop, is now open in the space.

The storefront is located at 17 E. Martin Street and has space for two tenants to operate. Existing tenant Aesthetic Appeal Jewelry has extended its lease by an additional six months.

Frills Atelier is owned by Hillary Davis, a former fashion industry designer. The company upcycles and restores vintage jewelry and accessories. The brand has formerly operated online and at other pop-up events and locations, including The Burrow in Downtown Raleigh.

The new space opened earlier this month and has a six-month lease.

“Having my own accessory brand and store is something that has motivated my career ambitions from a very young age,” Davis said. “I'm excited to be able to offer regular shoppable hours for upcycled and restored vintage accessories fulfilling one of my business goals to make my sustainable fashion offerings more accessible.”

The pop-up program is a partnership between Lenovo, the Downtown Raleigh Alliance, the Wake Tech Entrepreneurship & Small Business Center and LM Restaurants. It’s designed to be a retail incubator for minority- and women-owned small business owners.

Participants sign short term leases for a spot in the retail space and receive monthly business counseling through Wake Tech. The program also aims to increase the presence of retail and minority-owned small businesses downtown.

Aesthetic Appeal Jewelry opening in the pop-up space in October. The brand, owned by Shaunyta Jenkins, creates and sells handmade gemstone jewelry.

“The co-location of Frills and Aesthetic Appeal Jewelry creates an exciting local shopping destination in the heart of Downtown Raleigh,” said Will Gaskins, vice president of economic development and planning at the Downtown Raleigh Alliance.

Frills Atelier will host a grand opening during the First Friday event on May 5.

The space’s previous tenant, The Bath Place, graduated from the program in March after entering in May 2022. The brand’s owner, Kimberly Thigpen, is currently in lease negotiations to open in a standalone space downtown. She also has a Rocky Mount location and a presence in several Whole Foods stores.""

[KJHburg]

from Nashville and their skyline from a fort on a hill and the Wedgewood Houston neighborhood (Wedge Ho) which is a cross between NoDa and Southend rapid growth.  Rapid growth all over the metro Nashville area from the suburbs to the center city areas.    Absolutely love that huge guitar at the Nashville Warehouse Company development which includes office space, retail and residential.  https://www.nashvillewarehouseco.com/

Everything is being built in this city all over except for more highways and transit.    They even have a high rise 14 story Hilton going up right at the airport like connected.   I will be back in Nashvegas for the weekend.  Nashville does its "brand" well Music City USA.  

Edited April 21, 2023 by KJHburg

[smeagolsfree]

As always, great to talk to you Kevin. I hope you continue to have a great visit with family and feel free to give me a call if you need anything while you are here.

Thanks for posting the photos as you always do.

[East Side Urbanite]

Glad you enjoyed your trip to Nashville, Kevin.

Visit us anytime.

Nice photos, too.

 

 

 

[15895]

I’d like to see more places like the below in uptown (hate the cars & wish bike lanes separated the cars from the sidewalk - but uptown sidewalks would be larger in several areas) 

 

(Photo Credit: San Francisco Photography - Manisha Bhargava)

The below Shake Shack just opened in downtown Portland with from what I hear rave reviews. Would love to see something similar at Trade/Tryon (aren’t they replacing the fountain or something? Picnic tables with strand lights would be dope there - especially if it was better food but I’d settle. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

My Nashville roundup.  Things Charlotte can learn from Nashville:  They are good at historical preservation especially downtown better than we are and their branding is OFF the charts.  The Music City slogan and marketing is everywhere and the nation knows it.  What can they learn from us?  Infrastructure!  From sidewalks, to more highways, to toll express lanes,  to our airport, to our light rail all things sorely needed in Nashville metro.  I am sure many tourists like myself would gladly park outside of their downtown area and ride in if we had the chance.  Growth we both have it but they do have more high rises going up in their downtown and Midtown area than we do mostly apartment towers and hotels.  I am amazed every time I go there the lack of sidewalks and it reminds me of Charlotte 20-30 years ago.  (My niece lives on a minor thoroughfare and there are no sidewalks for blocks)  They need stronger tree ordinances as trees are far and few in downtown Nashville.  Their tourism is off the chart  but while we have no where near their numbers I do believe me have more varied attractions.  Like Carowinds and Whitewater Center.  Their tourism is mostly adult oriented bars and live music spots.  My photos will illustrate my points that all being said I can't wait to go back on my annual trip!  And their Nashville UP is very active and I will say it more positive than ours is most of the time.  

1. Highway splits like this all over downtown are problematic to the say the least.   2.3.4. Skyline 5.  Nashville Warehouse Co. in Wedgewood Houston .   Examples of massive tourism this April Saturday.    (they have more day drinking than in Charlotte has all week LOL)   In the last few years Nashville has  a major flood (2004) a bomb blast downtown (2020), an EF3 tornado tear through town (2020) but it always bounces back.      They just approved a massive new domed stadium that will undoubtedly host a Super Bowl, NCAA finals and massive concerts.  They have the IT city factor right now for sure.  

But you could not blast me out of Charlotte 3 hours to the beaches 2 hours to the highest mountains in the east  this needs to be a major selling point for us.  

 

[smeagolsfree]

As always, thanks for the kind words, Kevin!

The Nashville flood was in 2010. That was sort of the catalyst for the current boom that brought us out of the recession of 2008 and the city has not looked back. Metro's current construction boom started when the new convention center was completed in 2013 and was started in 2010 and since then the skyline has changed drastically. By my count now there are another 12 buildings to start this year that are over 300' according to my sources and contacts with another 5 at 200' or better. Currently what you saw was 8 over 300' UC and another 27 over 100' UC mostly in the downtown and midtown area. Most of these are in the 200–300-foot range.

The new Titans stadium on the East Bank will spur billions in construction but take decades to complete. The RMR group out of Boston has just closed the TA truck stop for their project which will be 7 to 10, 20 - 30 story buildings and Carl Ican has yet to sell his 43-acre site for whatever development that would go there. The site of the old stadium and parking would be replaced with high-rises and greenspace as well. In total there would be around 130 acres of redevelopment in the first phase not to mention a new spine road that runs the length of the East Bank from through the new Oracle Campus all the way down through the lower south side of East Nashville with a new bridge across the Cumberland River and possibly even more new development into what is known as the Driftwood area. Basically, the size of this development is more than double the size or our current CBD. The plans also include moving the TN performing arts center to the East Bank as well.

Our UP group meets every month and is open to all via Zoom if anyone ever want to join us. Just reach out to me, markhollin, or bos2nash for an invite. First Saturday of the month @ 11 AM Eastern Time.

As far as tourism the one thing that Nashville is missing is a theme park. There is a proposal, that I really do not think is going to go anywhere. Home - Storyville Gardens

It is an opportunity for whatever company that comes here first. The people behind Storyville Gardens are small time local developers that are IMO way in over their heads.

As far as other tourism destinations, here is a link to research for yourselves. There is really more than you realize. Nashville Attractions | Visit Nashville TN (visitmusiccity.com)

[East Side Urbanite]

A strong assessment overall, Kevin. I agree with you fully on the shortcomings related to traffic and lack of sidewalks and mass transit. We've got a long way to go.

As to things for visitors to do, Nashville (I live here) offers an interesting diversity of options that go beyond the bars on Lower Broadway and commercial country music themes. These include multiple music museums (the National Museum of African-American Music is world class), the must-see Centennial Park (which is home to the Parthenon and the Athena statue), House of Cards (a big-time live magic venue), Lane Motor Museum (with historic cars and motorcycles), Nashville Zoo, Cheekwood (which offers a top-notch botanical gardens and a solid art museum) and multiple high-rise hotels with roof-top bars for some wonderful views. The  Sinatra Bar & Lounge just opened and offers memorabilia from the late and legendary actor and vocalist. The Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum now offers a free exhibit of the work of the late photographer Rae Anne  Rubenstein (she shot the Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Lou Reed, Pink Floyd, etc.). Lots of folks don't realize the city's cultural and civic offerings go way beyond honkytonks and bad beer.

Come visit us anytime and keep up the great work in Charlotte. The South End district is looking outstanding!

 

 

 

[KJHburg]

Things seen in our capital city of Raleigh this week.  Notice facade saves for new construction.  Wish we could do this more in Charlotte.  

My Raleigh highlight reel.

Downtown,  New cobranded Hilton hotels.  New 20 story apartment tower,  New 20 story 400H Mixed use tower (office and apartments)  site cleared and facades saved for 36 story RUS BUS tower Raleigh Union Station central bus station project now called Union West.   Historical renovated buildings downtown.   Raleigh Iron Works is awesome with slide for all to use in renovated steel mill with new apartments surrounding it.   Dix Park over 300 acres on the edge of downtown and spurring growth nearby including mid rise apartments.  North Hills growing with 4 high and mid rise towers 2 office 2 apartment towers.   Peace at Smoky Hollow becoming more like Charlotte with Midwood Smokehouse and the Crunkleton across from each other. Oh yeah their urban Publix is open for business!   Lots to like in our capital city and with 100 miles of paved greenways I really like it and 80 more in Cary!  and the most successful pro sports team in the state the Hurricanes.  

Edited May 5, 2023 by KJHburg

[smeagolsfree]

You are keeping the road hot Keven. Thanks as always for the photo journal!!! Always great to see Raliegh.

[KJHburg]

Virginia Beach, the largest city in the commonwealth of VA, is a complex different kind of city.  It is about 500 sq miles but half is water or bays.  It has 459,000 people or so but has not really grown since 2020.  It is the product of the merger in 1963 of the independent city of Virginia Beach and the surrounding Princess Anne county.  They merged then and created the city of Virginia Beach.  1/3 is below the green line which is an urban growth boundary.   This section is still rural with lots of small farms and abuts Currituck County NC   The rest is pretty low density suburban in nature with 2 exceptions: the resort district which is where their 3 mile boardwalk is located and the high rise hotels and their newly created "downtown" which is called The Town Center.  The Town Center has a performing arts center, 450,000 sq ft retail, 1 M sq ft of office space, 2 hotels including the tallest building in the state and 934 apartments all developed by Armada Hoffler which is based there.   It reminds me of North Hills and Midtown in Raleigh.  Neighboring Norfolk actually has a light rail line of 7.5 miles but attempts to extend to the Va Beach Town Center have been rejected multiple times by voters of VB.   (and I do think that is a mistake and it would further develop Va Beach Town Center into a business district as big if not bigger than downtown Norfolk)  The Urban growth boundary is limiting future growth unless more gets redeveloped and stunts new economic development projects needed land.  They have a medical device manufacturer that would like to come there but many are opposed as it wants to buy city owned farmland below the Green line. 

Tallest building in Virginia and Va Beach is the Westin Town Center which is a hotel and condos above  38 stories and 508 feet tall! 

Light rail  which I did not know they had until this visit    https://gohrt.com/routes/light-rail/

Green line urban growth boundary   https://www.vbgov.com/government/departments/planning/green/land-development/Pages/default.aspx#:~:text=In 1979%2C the City of,agricultural land to the south.

Urban growth boundaries sound good but they have caused suburban development to skip to other cities Chesapeake (another merged city and county)  and into several NC counties namely Camden and Currituck (which is one of the fastest growing counties in NC due to this) 

What I really did not see in Va Beach is redevelopment of low density apartment complexes into higher density ones like we see here in Charlotte and even Raleigh.  But with stagnant population growth or small losses it may not happen to the extent it could.  

Their parks in Va Beach are great and located in all parts of the city from the built up areas to the southern rural areas.  A former landfill is Mount Trashmore park which is highest land point in the city LOL.   That farmland pictured is in the city limits of Va Beach.    So here is the largest city in Virginia and home of the tallest building in the state! 

Census comparisons between Charlotte Raleigh and Va Beach

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/charlottecitynorthcarolina,raleighcitynorthcarolina,virginiabeachcityvirginia/PST045221

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

Here is Norfolk the urban center of the Tidewater VA region and home to VA's only light rail line The Tide (see Va Beach post above for link)

They have a 1.1 Million square mall downtown built in 1999 by Taubman.  However the mall is in serious decline now with Nordstrom pulling out and just leaving a Dillards.  It needs to be redeveloped and they are studying plans what to do with it.  (My idea if Dillards wants to stay if de-mall it and add other uses like apartments, hotels etc. )  The parking decks are HUGE and at least one of them can be completely razed in my opinion.     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Center

Here is one thing Norfolk did we can learn from:  converted the 1969 Virginia National Bank-'Sovran-'Nationsbank-BankofAmerica building into apartments called Icon.  This needs to happen on some of rapidly emptying out towers from the same era (2 Wells Fargo the 32 story building should be the first one)   @QCxpat's dad was involved in the construction of this landmark which was the tallest for many years in Norfolk.   269 units.  Great conversion and this has happened since my visit 20 years ago or so.  

https://www.iconnorfolk.com/

https://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/11/prweb14865051.htm

Also immediately adjacent to downtown is the FreeMason Harbor neighborhood lots of for sale townhomes and condos.  New apartments going up.  But the large hulking mall has to be dealt with soon.    They multiple renovations of historic buildings into apartments and or hotels.    Being on the water always helps a city for sure!  Look for the ICON apartment conversion in my photos you will see it easily.  

[15895]

Really Love the trip reports to Nashville, Raleigh, Norfolk & VA Beach. Hope we get to see more trips!
 

I didn’t realize Virginia Beach was the technically largest city or had the tallest building lol. Virginia’s city/county thing to me is weird. 

I don’t see VA Beach or Norfolk booming much, at least urbanity wise (beyond continuous improvements including mass transit expansions, modest growth etc). Outside of DC suburbs, I only see Richmond potentially boom - especially with high frequency commuter rail  to DC in a couple years. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.  I think Norfolk is mainly military & beach tourism.

The NoVa suburbs just suck all the oxygen out of the room for other VA cities (and that’s ignoring the NC Triangle which also is a really tough competitor… Especially given Raleigh’s industry.) Some Of the buildings U/C in Virginia or topped out since 2020 per Wikipedia not including the Approved or proposed:

RTC Building D - 39 Floors - Reston 

Dittmar Rosslyn - 38 Floors - Arlington 

JW Marriott - 26 Floors - Reston 

The Mather - 27 Floors - Tyson’s 

Monarch - 20 Floors - Tyson’s 

Cap One Three - 31 Floors - Tyson’s 

2000 Opportunity - 28 Floors - Reston 

Amazon HQ 2 Met 6 - 22 Floors - Crystal City

Amazon HQ 2 Met 7 - 22 Floors - Crystal City 

Crystal City Block J - 26 Floors - Crystal City

Crystal City Block K - 27 Floors - Crystal City 

JBG West Tower - 30 Floors - Crystal City

JBG East Tower - 30 Floors - Crystal City 

Heming - 27 Floors - Tyson’s 

Cortland Rosslyn East - 27 Floors - Arlington 

Cortland Rosslyn West - 23 Floors - Arlington

1950 Opportunity - 20 Floors - Reston 

River Tower - 24 Floors - Norfolk

Only Norfolk with one building had been topped out over 20 floors in VA outside of NoVa. That said, there’s a lot of exciting urban things happening in The VA cities that likely won’t translate to the population booms or skyscraper booms like other areas in the south but. Lots to take note from IMO. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

Some recent photos of Midtown Atlanta skyline which is quite impressive.  It is the most walkable urban center in Atlanta market I think even more so than downtown ATL or Buckhead for sure. 

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/midtown-changing-skyline-photos-atop-at-four-seasons?

[KJHburg]

Meanwhile in Raleigh they are expanding their Social District and someday we will get one in Charlotte.  Someday.

https://downtownraleigh.org/post/strong-support-for-social-district?

[kayman]

13 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Meanwhile in Raleigh they are expanding their Social District and someday we will get one in Charlotte.  Someday.

https://downtownraleigh.org/post/strong-support-for-social-district?

Social district applications have been submitted for various areas of Uptown,  SouthEnd, Lower SouthEnd aka LoSo, and Plaza-Midwood to the CoC. However, Charlotte is a huge operation compared to Raleigh with a council-manager form of government i.e., bureaucratic minutia. So don't expect quick moves like a mayor-council government, i.e., a mayoral executive order, which would be instantaneous for such large municipalities in other states. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by kayman

[Boricua]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:11 PM, kayman said:

Social district applications have been submitted for various areas of Uptown,  SouthEnd, Lower SouthEnd aka LoSo, and Plaza-Midwood to the CoC. However, Charlotte is a huge operation compared to Raleigh with a council-manager form of government i.e., bureaucratic minutia. So don't expect quick moves like a mayor-council government, i.e., a mayoral executive order, which would be instantaneous for such large municipalities in other states. 

Hey Kayman so what kind of city government would you like in Charlotte? Strong mayor? Mayoral veto? Council president? 4 year council terms?