Norfolk Off-Topic

[mintscraft56]

 

On 12/20/2023 at 11:24 PM, Norva757 said:

who would actually start this? we would have to get a petition going and we would have to get a strong movement to make these changes. I dont think there is enough locals that would get together to change this. Most locals have too many bias against the other cities. Maybe we could do a meet up and try to get this going

Get the military involved. Troops from the bases will storm the surrounding cities over night. Norfolk will occupy 75% of the 7 cities by the first fall of morning light. 

On a real note, we will need to get each and every city government AND the state government to look at this and agree. Which I unfortunately say thats impossible. VB and Norfolk working together, let alone annexing under the name "Norfolk" OR being districts is impossible. 

Personally I would like a NYC style system. Where each city is a borough under the general collective name of "Norfolk" as it was years ago. Then again, a man can only dream.

On 12/19/2023 at 6:33 PM, ONCE1stBlvd said:

¡1000%!  You're right.  Although I love calling Tidewater "The 7 Cities", it would be less destructive if it wasn't ACTUALLY comparable to having Philly, NYC, Seattle, Boston, Cincy, ATL and Chicago magically pushed next to one another and then expecting their potential to remain the same.  lol.

The debacle as a whole just always seemed suspicious to me.  Why haven't any other cities in THEE ENTIRE WORLD ever done the same?  If anything, quite the opposite has been done.  Cities consolidate.   Since..forever in the US. 

Interestingly enough, to the best of my knowledge Norfolk shares borders with more cities than any other city within Tidewater.  Just sayin....kinda makes sense what we would it if VA allowed it.  I wonder if it can be done on an executive level, since VA doesn't seem to want it.   Like, maybe just Norfolk, Portsmouth and Newport News?  Let Va Beach, Chesapeake and Suffolk remain suburban cities, creating a new type of suburb.   

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/norfolk-city-va#:~:text=Norfolk city%2C VA borders Northampton,and Virginia Beach city%2C VA.

Interesting charts.

Also, we share the most borders than the others cities because we ARE the central city. The little union of county sized cities surrounding us did this on purpose to stunt our growth decades ago.
Newport News, Norfolk, and Portsmouth should be the only real cities in this area by a long shot both historically and development wise.  

[BFG]

11 minutes ago, mintscraft56 said:

Personally I would like a NYC style system. Where each city is a borough under the general collective name of "Norfolk" as it was years ago. Then again, a man can only dream.

A few years ago there was a rumor on IG that the area going to combine into one and call itself "Greater Norfolk", but it was just that. A rumor. I think this new name should be something neutral, even if it's Tidewater.

[mintscraft56]

6 hours ago, BFG said:

A few years ago there was a rumor on IG that the area going to combine into one and call itself "Greater Norfolk", but it was just that. A rumor. I think this new name should be something neutral, even if it's Tidewater.

I lean towards calling the area "Norfolk" in respect to the city which oudates the rest by at least a century. Norfolk has been around for 341 years being founded in 1682. Long before many of the cities around us, not to mention this area was known as Norfolk county for a long long time too.  Tidewater, or Hampton roads would be good for a regional name, but for a united area of boroughs we need a city name to go by. Which, if we want to get creative, we could always name our own city! Speaking of that, what would be a good city name if the area united?

[BFG]

Tidewater pays homage to the traditional name as well our Native American roots. Although I came up with New Dominion a few years ago. Feels apt given Old Dominion is our nickname but ND suggests a new beginning. 

That said, the Bay Area doesn’t seem to have a problem with the rivalries between cities. A friend of mine said the infighting between Norfolk and VB reminded her of SF vs. Oakland.

San Jose is actually the largest city there, but people usually think of SF or Oakland. IIRC, SJ is bigger than both cities combined. 

[ONCE1stBlvd]

Hint #31

 

 

[ONCE1stBlvd]

One city named; 

It's gotta be called NORFOLK.

As crazy as it seems, "Va Beach" would be the only other name I'd co-sign. It sucks and horrible but it works, as long as geographically and statistically the city center would be the downtown Norfolk area. Basically, VA Beach would become Norfolk, with Norfolk's downtown being "THEE" downtown and center of the metro. Pembroke... . please.... At best, it can serve as one of the many town centers. Add it to Greenbrier, Victory Crossing(Olde Towne would combine with Downtown), DT Newport News, DT Hampton, DT Suffolk and... That's it

[ONCE1stBlvd]

On 12/22/2023 at 4:38 PM, mintscraft56 said:

 

Get the military involved. Troops from the bases will storm the surrounding cities over night. Norfolk will occupy 75% of the 7 cities by the first fall of morning light. 

On a real note, we will need to get each and every city government AND the state government to look at this and agree. Which I unfortunately say thats impossible. VB and Norfolk working together, let alone annexing under the name "Norfolk" OR being districts is impossible. 

Personally I would like a NYC style system. Where each city is a borough under the general collective name of "Norfolk" as it was years ago. Then again, a man can only dream.

Also, we share the most borders than the others cities because we ARE the central city. The little union of county sized cities surrounding us did this on purpose to stunt our growth decades ago.
Newport News, Norfolk, and Portsmouth should be the only real cities in this area by a long shot both historically and development wise.  

I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel you!  

Everyone knows Norfolk is the center. Historically the area wouldn't exist as is without Norfolk giving up a huge chunk of it's taxable area to the military-----,LET'S TALK ABOUT IT

[BFG]

Two new affordable housing developments are being proposed, one at the corner of Tidewater and VB Blvd. and named for former councilman Paul Riddick. There used to be a Comfort Inn on that site up until the late-90s but it's been a vacant lot for about 25 years. It looks like your typical Norfolk apartment building (picture attached from the ARB PDF).

Then there's Newport Gardens, which was proposed about a decade ago in Park Place. I love that the city is focusing on revitalizing Park Place with more housing and shops.

[HRVA]

1 hour ago, BFG said:

Two new affordable housing developments are being proposed, one at the corner of Tidewater and VB Blvd. and named for former councilman Paul Riddick. There used to be a Comfort Inn on that site up until the late-90s but it's been a vacant lot for about 25 years. It looks like your typical Norfolk apartment building (picture attached from the ARB PDF).

Then there's Newport Gardens, which was proposed about a decade ago in Park Place. I love that the city is focusing on revitalizing Park Place with more housing and shops.

Has anyone heard anything about the project a block south of the 36th St one? It was proposed a little more recently but I haven’t seen anything about it in a couple of years. 

[ONCE1stBlvd]

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/community/free-front-yard-concerts-return-porchella-norfolk/291-09a41aa4-9658-4173-8db8-85771ae2b208

 

This looks pretty cool. Check it out!

[ONCE1stBlvd]

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/money/economy/population-decline-virginia-hampton-roads-new-odu-report/291-3539e0a6-cfff-4c46-8a64-a4df48cea1bd

[HRVA]

1 hour ago, ONCE1stBlvd said:

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/money/economy/population-decline-virginia-hampton-roads-new-odu-report/291-3539e0a6-cfff-4c46-8a64-a4df48cea1bd

Misleading report. Certainly reasons to be concerned about our region’s lagging growth but neither our region or state is experiencing population declines and further the state’s growth is on pace with the national average. Source: ODU’s State of the Commonwealth the journalist claims to be reporting on. 

[baobabs727]

2 hours ago, HRVA said:

Misleading report. Certainly reasons to be concerned about our region’s lagging growth but neither our region or state is experiencing population declines and further the state’s growth is on pace with the national average. Source: ODU’s State of the Commonwealth the journalist claims to be reporting on. 

You'd make a great Chamber member. How was that Nashville trip? Either you are out of your depth in every conceivable way on this topic, or you are a propagandist extraordinaire.  Now, which one is it?  

Edited January 2 by baobabs727

[HRVA]

6 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

You'd make a great Chamber member. How was that Nashville trip? Either you are out of your depth in every conceivable way on this topic, or you are a propagandist extraordinaire.  Now, which one is it?  

The report from WVEC is factually incorrect. That is all I am pointing out. This forum would be better served by directly linking ODU’s report and discussing it than an inaccurate media report of it. 

https://ceapodu.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/147356-ODU-SoC-WEB.pdf

[vdogg]

It appears that the reporter is confusing a decline in share of population, with an overall population decline, which is incorrect. Hampton Roads was stagnant, but registered no actual population decline in the final years of the report. Additionally, Virginia is indeed growing at exactly the same rate as the United States as a whole. Nothing to write home about, but again, not a decline. Accuracy matters in reporting, and they should clarify or issue a correction.

[lammius]

Looking at those charts, it seems it's really a story about population growth in Northern Virginia driving the state's population growth trend from 1990-2019.

Hampton Roads has been growing at less than half the national rate of growth and is losing share to other regions of the state (especially Northern VA) and to other parts of the country, which are growing much faster than HR (especially other metro areas, as most US popn growth is in major metros).  That doesn't mean that HR is "losing population" but you could argue (and pull some data points to show) that it means HR is dropping down the ranks of relative importance among metro areas, which has a variety of economic and other implications.  

  

 

[HRVA]

These are the tables that stood out to me as I glanced through earlier:

Real income is down, nearly 12k people (net) have left our area for other parts of the country, and our 20-34 population is declining, all just in the past few years. All of the other metro areas are outperforming our region in these categories (except NOVA in domestic migration but duh). Points like these should be the focus as they are extremely concerning AND factually accurate. And I agree that our leaders aren’t doing enough. The pandemic, with people able to move wherever with WFH policies, was an opportunity to see our desirability and it’s pretty clear we’re not desirable. 

[ONCE1stBlvd]

I believe all points should be focused on, according to who's willing to focus on them. 

What the report that I shared brought to light was that the MSA is lagging behind, apparently, and that it could be of concern. Imo; it SHOULD be of concern

https://www.wavy.com/traffic/tolls/state-sen-louise-lucas-no-toll-relief-for-portsmouth-tunnels-then-no-arena-for-northern-virginia-period/

At least THIS is the sort of leverage that should be nurtured

"The two most powerful people in Richmond....... both come from Portsmouth"

[Norva757]

2 hours ago, ONCE1stBlvd said:

I believe all points should be focused on, according to who's willing to focus on them. 

What the report that I shared brought to light was that the MSA is lagging behind, apparently, and that it could be of concern. Imo; it SHOULD be of concern

https://www.wavy.com/traffic/tolls/state-sen-louise-lucas-no-toll-relief-for-portsmouth-tunnels-then-no-arena-for-northern-virginia-period/

At least THIS is the sort of leverage that should be nurtured

"The two most powerful people in Richmond....... both come from Portsmouth"

This all goes back to the mediocre leadership and infighting of all these cities here. We are a big dysfunctional family that will never get ahead. We really need to get the right people in charge to turn this area into the what it should be.  Just look at how the light rail debacle ended in this region. We can't accomplish anything with so many cities here. 

[ONCE1stBlvd]

6 hours ago, Norva757 said:

This all goes back to the mediocre leadership and infighting of all these cities here. We are a big dysfunctional family that will never get ahead. We really need to get the right people in charge to turn this area into the what it should be.  Just look at how the light rail debacle ended in this region. We can't accomplish anything with so many cities here. 

"We can't accomplish anything with so many cities here"

 

THAT!  That's almost literally what I mentioned in a post on this thread maybe only two pages ago. 

I truly believe that's the culprit. The amount of cities, shoulder to shoulder. 

@baobabs727 Am I lying??  That's exactly what I said before, right?

On 1/2/2024 at 3:02 PM, HRVA said:

These are the tables that stood out to me as I glanced through earlier:

Real income is down, nearly 12k people (net) have left our area for other parts of the country, and our 20-34 population is declining, all just in the past few years. All of the other metro areas are outperforming our region in these categories (except NOVA in domestic migration but duh). Points like these should be the focus as they are extremely concerning AND factually accurate. And I agree that our leaders aren’t doing enough. The pandemic, with people able to move wherever with WFH policies, was an opportunity to see our desirability and it’s pretty clear we’re not desirable. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/britneynguyen/2023/12/28/world-population-grew-by-over-75-million-people-in-2023-but-population-growth-rate-is-slowing/

In your point's defense...

[Norva757]

If you look at why there is so many cities it explains why we are where we are now. They literally became cities to stop norfolk from expanding

[mintscraft56]

6 hours ago, Norva757 said:

If you look at why there is so many cities it explains why we are where we are now. They literally became cities to stop norfolk from expanding

Thats the problem. Norfolk NEEDS to expend. We are the only city with an actual Downtown here (With the exception of NN). For the region to grow prosperous, we will need to grow too. These counties turned into cities only to stop Norfolk. Its quite litterly why Chespeake, Suffolk, and VB are massive compared to us.

The only real cities that SHOULD be here are Newport News, Portsmouth, and Norfolk. The rest should be counties that we could expand into. VB is Virginia's biggest city....yes. Why? Because its the land size of NYC! Of course its gonna have a big population!

I dont hate these other cities at all. But I do hate how we came to function.
Portsmouth and Norfolk should combine under the name "Norfolk". NN can do its own thing with hampton. VB can stay...i guess. But Suffolk and Chesapeake are in no way cities. They are just big counties that want to play big city games. Suffolk and Chesapeake need to return to county status and in return, we can expand like every other real city on this planet. 

Thats just my 2 cents.  

[mintscraft56]

For the love of God and all things holy. GIVE ME THIS MAP BACK 

[baobabs727]

17 hours ago, ONCE1stBlvd said:

"We can't accomplish anything with so many cities here"

 

THAT!  That's almost literally what I mentioned in a post on this thread maybe only two pages ago. 

I truly believe that's the culprit. The amount of cities, shoulder to shoulder. 

@baobabs727 Am I lying??  That's exactly what I said before, right?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/britneynguyen/2023/12/28/world-population-grew-by-over-75-million-people-in-2023-but-population-growth-rate-is-slowing/

In your point's defense...

@ONCE1stBlvdyou speak the truth

[baobabs727]

On 1/2/2024 at 2:07 PM, vdogg said:

It appears that the reporter is confusing a decline in share of population, with an overall population decline, which is incorrect. Hampton Roads was stagnant, but registered no actual population decline in the final years of the report. Additionally, Virginia is indeed growing at exactly the same rate as the United States as a whole. Nothing to write home about, but again, not a decline. Accuracy matters in reporting, and they should clarify or issue a correction.

All that matters is how we are doing relative to our peers, etc.  We are losing ground on nearly all fronts. "Stagnation" was the term I used to summarize the report. RELATIVE GROWTH is key, and HR has been growing RELATIVELY slowly (read: barely) when compared to NOVA, RVA, RALEIGH, CHARLOTTE, JACKSONVILLE, NASHVILLE, the Commonwealth of VA, the States of NC, SC, GA, FL, TN, TX...etc..