Norfolk Off-Topic

[mintscraft56]

6 minutes ago, BFG said:

I really need to understand why it would take seven years just to start construction. Is there something I'm missing here, or is this typical slow Norfolk?

Its not Norfolk....Its the HRT. They are obsessed with frikin busses. All they want is BUS. All they care is BUS. The Light rail 2mile expansion seems to be more of a way to cope with complaints from the people saying we need to expand and unite the area as one metropolitan. But 7 frikin years for 2 miles of track? NYC did their whole damn subway in less!  (Excuse my language)

Edited October 5, 2021 by mintscraft56

[Kevin Cheph Randall]

1 minute ago, Kevin Cheph Randall said:

That's kind of what it is though, not stealing the spotlight but not sharing it either. Every city builds with the hope of moving THEIR city along and no city helps the other. So it's hard to be excited about development with no regional benefits in mind. That's how we're here now, every city for itself, with a ton of redundant development.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is. What's good for a city isn't good for the region. The things that would benefit the region most aren't popular, especially if it means OUR cities are required to cooperate. 

[BeagleAccountant]

10 hours ago, BFG said:

I really need to understand why it would take seven years just to start construction. Is there something I'm missing here, or is this typical slow Norfolk?

This timeline is all related to the  FTA grant funding that would be required in order to fund the project.  It's a long inefficient process.

[Mountain_Junior]

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/tide-light-rail-expansion-military-circle/291-f199d31a-771c-4031-a895-c519c22ccc63 New details on HRT And the Tide Expansion.....Why cant they just extend the damn thing down VB boulevard with stops all the way to Town Center(or  from military circle straight to TC)?  It would be logical since they have the giant median all the way down to TC anyways. They want construction to start 2028 but for me to wait that long it better be extended more somewhat. 

Virginia Beach voters rejected it in 2016. HRT can’t unilaterally extend it to TC or anywhere else in VB, even if they have a dedicated right of way available. It was actually a non-binding referendum but the city council called for it prior to their vote on the matter and treated it as a referendum on how they should vote.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/article_a36b8dd8-6f6e-5f1e-a101-5b354db544c8.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I recommend everyone go to one of the public meetings. I went to the one at Wards Corner yesterday and it was very informative.

[vdogg]

2 hours ago, Kevin Cheph Randall said:

That's kind of what it is though, not stealing the spotlight but not sharing it either. Every city builds with the hope of moving THEIR city along and no city helps the other. So it's hard to be excited about development with no regional benefits in mind. That's how we're here now, every city for itself, with a ton of redundant development.

Back on topic, was it ever mentioned the tax revenue the casino would generate for Norfolk? Supposedly the tribe still owns land in Richmond and could build a casino in Richmond. The problem there is the casino would be able to evade alot of taxes. Is the same true in Norfolk? While Richmond Urban One Casino would actually provide taxes to Richmond. 

Did Norfolk really sign on just to get a casino? That only promised jobs and development? If so that's the kind of shortsighted competition that hurts the region.

Portsmouth Casino is expected to generate 7mil for the city, 1500 jobs, as well as opportunity for local and minority business owners to participate. Also looking to partner with TCC to start a hospitality department.  

 

People seem to have this strange notion that there's some magical wall on the city borders that causes a dollar to vaporize as soon as it crosses the city line, there is not. People live in Va. Beach and work in Norfolk, or live in Norfolk and work in Va. Beach, or any other of the numerous combinations you can get from a region with 7 main cities. The arena in Norfolk will benefit Chesapeake and Va. Beach directly as there will be a spill over effect in hotel rooms needed. Something in the Water, which was held in the oh so nefarious city of Va. Beach, sold out EVERY hotel room in Hampton Roads. Development in the region helps the region.

[Kevin Cheph Randall]

6 hours ago, vdogg said:

People seem to have this strange notion that there's some magical wall on the city borders that causes a dollar to vaporize as soon as it crosses the city line, there is not. People live in Va. Beach and work in Norfolk, or live in Norfolk and work in Va. Beach, or any other of the numerous combinations you can get from a region with 7 main cities. The arena in Norfolk will benefit Chesapeake and Va. Beach directly as there will be a spill over effect in hotel rooms needed. Something in the Water, which was held in the oh so nefarious city of Va. Beach, sold out EVERY hotel room in Hampton Roads. Development in the region helps the region.

The cities boarder kind of do act as a invisible wall, an invisible wall to lock in money for sure. I'm not giving VB credit for SITW that's was all Pharrell if VB had their way nothing would be going on during college beach weekend. When VB gets it's way we end up with no light rail outside Norfolk.

 

 

[mintscraft56]

11 hours ago, Mountain_Junior said:

Virginia Beach voters rejected it in 2016. HRT can’t unilaterally extend it to TC or anywhere else in VB, even if they have a dedicated right of way available. It was actually a non-binding referendum but the city council called for it prior to their vote on the matter and treated it as a referendum on how they should vote.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/article_a36b8dd8-6f6e-5f1e-a101-5b354db544c8.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I recommend everyone go to one of the public meetings. I went to the one at Wards Corner yesterday and it was very informative.

Oh yea....I forgot that VB isint really into the unite the area thing....I would hands down bet Portsmouth and NN would be more than happy though. I hope they would start a small study into to the tide light rail crossing the water to the other cities. Most likely Portsmouth Olde Town....Though truly that might effect the ferry. Either way hopefully we should just forget about trying to expand to VB until they make their mind up. Chesapeake would be actually cool too...Summit Pointe seems promising......But its all a dream for now lol

Edited October 5, 2021 by mintscraft56

[urbanvb]

I believe Chesapeake is looking into expanding the Tide into Greenbrier. In my mind it seems odds are against it - however if it ever came to fruition and was successful I could possibly...imagine VA Beach reassessing the need for the Tide.

Edited October 6, 2021 by urbanvb

[Mountain_Junior]

I believe Chesapeake is looking into expanding the Tide into Greenbrier. In my mind it seems odds are against it - however if it ever came to fruition and was successful I could possibly...imagine VA Beach reassessing the need for the Tide.

They absolutely are. In fact that is even mentioned in the Naval Station Norfolk BRT LRT analysis as a follow on effort. My hope is that once you connect Greenbrier, the Airport, the Naval Base, Military Circle Mall, and the Outlet Mall/IKEA to what you’ve already got, you make it so vital that VB voters view it as something they’d be stupid NOT to approve, lest they risk becoming the city that is left behind when it maybe goes to Portsmouth or something next.

[mintscraft56]

5 hours ago, Mountain_Junior said:

They absolutely are. In fact that is even mentioned in the Naval Station Norfolk BRT LRT analysis as a follow on effort. My hope is that once you connect Greenbrier, the Airport, the Naval Base, Military Circle Mall, and the Outlet Mall/IKEA to what you’ve already got, you make it so vital that VB voters view it as something they’d be stupid NOT to approve, lest they risk becoming the city that is left behind when it maybe goes to Portsmouth or something next.

Exactly though I dont think VB voters will vote it in still....I asked some people that are friends of mine and some of their friends. One told me "Look ik your from Norfolk, No offense but we dont want the ghetto coming into our city. Portsmouth, NN, and Norfolk can keep it. Leave us be." That kinda let me into the mindset these people have. But Another said that "It would be cool to expand, its just do we even need it?"

Its nothing against VB its just the mindset that the majority have especially these people who live in those big houses in near ocean front (The people I questioned) 

[Mountain_Junior]

Heads up on upcoming public meetings on Norfolk’s Multimodal Transportation plan.

[mintscraft56]

On 10/6/2021 at 9:24 AM, NFKjeff said:

LOL. No offense, but...

Newsflash! All kinds of people have automobiles, and VB is not exactly the Tower on the Hill most of it's residents believe it to be. VB needs to evolve from 1963.

Lol no offence taken. Im not the one saying all this lol. I live in Norfolk myself and am in full support of city development.....I was quoting people I questioned. 

[Arctic_Tern]

Yeah, Something in the Water occurred despite Virginia Beach not because of it. And it will not continue there because Virginia Beach just has to be Virginia Beach. Hopefully SITW can come back to another Hampton Roads city cause I can't see VB ever making the changes needed to keep it there long term.

[baobabs727]

On 10/13/2021 at 9:54 AM, Arctic_Tern said:

Yeah, Something in the Water occurred despite Virginia Beach not because of it. And it will not continue there because Virginia Beach just has to be Virginia Beach. Hopefully SITW can come back to another Hampton Roads city cause I can't see VB ever making the changes needed to keep it there long term.

Well, I read his letter, and I don't see any specific, concrete demands... or proposed solutions, for that matter.  As usual, he speaks in very lofty, nebulous terms...emotion-laden atmospherics...which could be interpreted in a number of ways. (Well,  we do know one thing for certain:  He's not a happy camper.)

1)  So, what, specifically, could VB do to get the festival to come back for next year? 

2)  Is Pharrell an honest broker? Would he be willing to listen, to meet, to exchange ideas, to give the City a second chance? Or has he decided to move on? For whatever reason.  Perhaps even revenue model/business plan issues? ABC issues?

3) Should we citizens and City Council be elevating Pharrell to the de facto position of (sole?) arbiter of our collective morality in VB?  What are his bona fides in that arena?  Last I checked, he's neither a Priest nor a Psychologist/Psychiatrist, an Ethicist, a Professor of Humane Letters, etc. 

4) Additionally, he's not an elected representative of the citizens of Virginia Beach, so should City Council cede responsibility for policy-making to him?

Of course Virginia Beach can and should operate with enhanced vigilance, transparency and sensitivity in all matters of governance--especially when it comes to race. This much is obvious. But what are the precise problems and corresponding solutions, and who gets to prescribe these remedies, are all yet to be determined and up for debate.  Should VB be enacting reforms or making any concession in a direct plea for/in exchange for revenue-generation?  Seems a crass and disingenuous business to me, but ymmv. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

On 10/14/2021 at 4:41 PM, baobabs727 said:

Well, I read his letter, and I don't see any specific, concrete demands... or proposed solutions, for that matter.  As usual, he speaks in very lofty, nebulous terms...emotion-laden atmospherics...which could be interpreted in a number of ways. (Well,  we do know one thing for certain:  He's not a happy camper.)

1)  So, what, specifically, could VB do to get the festival to come back for next year? 

2)  Is Pharrell an honest broker? Would he be willing to listen, to meet, to exchange ideas, to give the City a second chance? Or has he decided to move on? For whatever reason.  Perhaps even revenue model/business plan issues? ABC issues?

3) Should we citizens and City Council be elevating Pharrell to the de facto position of (sole?) arbiter of our collective morality in VB?  What are his bona fides in that arena?  Last I checked, he's neither a Priest nor a Psychologist/Psychiatrist, an Ethicist, a Professor of Humane Letters, etc. 

4) Additionally, he's not an elected representative of the citizens of Virginia Beach, so should City Council cede responsibility for policy-making to him?

Of course Virginia Beach can and should operate with enhanced vigilance, transparency and sensitivity in all matters of governance--especially when it comes to race. This much is obvious. But what are the precise problems and corresponding solutions, and who gets to prescribe these remedies, are all yet to be determined and up for debate.  Should VB be enacting reforms or making any concession in a direct plea for/in exchange for revenue-generation?  Seems a crass and disingenuous business to me, but ymmv. 

I'm fairly certain, as he seemed to make it quite clear in the letter, that the bigger overriding issue is the way the city handled the death of his cousin. Perhaps it's crass to you, but I know if it were my family member who died and I felt the city hadn't provided adequate answers, I'd have something to say too. And if I were in the position Pharrell was, I would use whatever power I had to lean on the city to get those answers. I think without the investigation in to that matter moving forward, I wouldn't expect much progress on any other front.

[Si7i]

On 10/14/2021 at 4:41 PM, baobabs727 said:

Well, I read his letter, and I don't see any specific, concrete demands... or proposed solutions, for that matter.  As usual, he speaks in very lofty, nebulous terms...emotion-laden atmospherics...which could be interpreted in a number of ways. (Well,  we do know one thing for certain:  He's not a happy camper.)

1)  So, what, specifically, could VB do to get the festival to come back for next year? 

2)  Is Pharrell an honest broker? Would he be willing to listen, to meet, to exchange ideas, to give the City a second chance? Or has he decided to move on? For whatever reason.  Perhaps even revenue model/business plan issues? ABC issues?

3) Should we citizens and City Council be elevating Pharrell to the de facto position of (sole?) arbiter of our collective morality in VB?  What are his bona fides in that arena?  Last I checked, he's neither a Priest nor a Psychologist/Psychiatrist, an Ethicist, a Professor of Humane Letters, etc. 

4) Additionally, he's not an elected representative of the citizens of Virginia Beach, so should City Council cede responsibility for policy-making to him?

Of course Virginia Beach can and should operate with enhanced vigilance, transparency and sensitivity in all matters of governance--especially when it comes to race. This much is obvious. But what are the precise problems and corresponding solutions, and who gets to prescribe these remedies, are all yet to be determined and up for debate.  Should VB be enacting reforms or making any concession in a direct plea for/in exchange for revenue-generation?  Seems a crass and disingenuous business to me, but ymmv. 

All VB had to do was say that what happened was wrong and an avoidable death in a press release statement, and state that they would take action in preventing future police brutality. 
 

But you know what VB did they doubled down on their conservativism, which isn’t inheritanly bad, but their way of going about it and basically not acknowledging their police departments wrong doing is now costing the city millions because of simple political posturing. If VB continues down this conservative path it’s risks losing a lot more.  
 

No one in this region is playing the long term leadership role in trying to promote growth though playing the right political games.
 

 

[BFG]

For VB to have called on Pharrell to create a music festival to stop the violence and bridge the racial gap, but not address the ongoing issues within that have existed since the Princess Anne County era is extremely shortsighted and maybe even tone deaf. That half-a**ed letter from the city manager only added fuel to the fire.

Even if SITW miraculously returns to VB, it’ll never feel the same there. Not even if they hold a special summit on race relations. This area is already behind the times; last week set Hampton Roads back a good 30 years.

[Si7i]

28 minutes ago, BFG said:

For VB to have called on Pharrell to create a music festival to stop the violence and bridge the racial gap, but not address the ongoing issues within that have existed since the Princess Anne County era is extremely shortsighted and maybe even tone deaf. That half-a**ed letter from the city manager only added fuel to the fire.

Even if SITW miraculously returns to VB, it’ll never feel the same there. Not even if they hold a special summit on race relations. This area is already behind the times; last week set Hampton Roads back a good 30 years.

The thing that’s bugs me politically is that VBs officials heads are too big to even lie and put a statement out that they would “Ensure what happened to his cousin won’t happen again”. 
The posturing  is bad that you can’t even lie. 
 

If Norfolk gets miltary circle redevelopment off the ground I do see VB town center stagnating in the future being in close proximity, especially with no other transportation options viable. Which means the only thing VB has going for it is it’s school system and the oceanfront. I could see Chesapeake’s town center overtaking town center easily because they have a true corporate backer. 

But only time will tell. 
 

[Qdeathstar]

8 hours ago, Si7i said:

All VB had to do was say that what happened was wrong and an avoidable death in a press release statement, and state that they would take action in preventing future police brutality. 

 

How do we know it was wrong? The investigation isn’t done. Are we just supposed to condemn police for the sake of money?

Quote

But you know what VB did they doubled down on their conservativism, which isn’t inheritanly bad, but their way of going about it and basically not acknowledging their police departments wrong doing is now costing the city millions because of simple political posturing. If VB continues down this conservative path it’s risks losing a lot more. 
 

deciding the outcome of  investigations based on political ideologies is certainly dangerous. So is believing outcome x only happened because of a political ideology.

 

Quote

 
No one in this region is playing the long term leadership role in trying to promote growth though playing the right political games.

 

you mean left lol

Quote

 

[baobabs727]

23 hours ago, vdogg said:

I'm fairly certain, as he seemed to make it quite clear in the letter, that the bigger overriding issue is the way the city handled the death of his cousin. Perhaps it's crass to you, but I know if it were my family member who died and I felt the city hadn't provided adequate answers, I'd have something to say too. And if I were in the position Pharrell was, I would use whatever power I had to lean of the city to get those answers. I think without the investigation in to that matter moving forward, I wouldn't expect much progress on any other front.

You misread my post. I said it was crass and disingenuous for the CITY to try to make concessions or to enact reforms on such a sensitive and important topic in what would appear to be a direct quid pro quo for $$$$. I don’t think that’s debatable. Even if it isn’t true, exactly, appearances matter. And I think City leaders were clumsy and insensitive in the way they reached out to him. 

[baobabs727]

20 hours ago, Si7i said:

All VB had to do was say that what happened was wrong and an avoidable death in a press release statement, and state that they would take action in preventing future police brutality. 
 

But you know what VB did they doubled down on their conservativism, which isn’t inheritanly bad, but their way of going about it and basically not acknowledging their police departments wrong doing is now costing the city millions because of simple political posturing. If VB continues down this conservative path it’s risks losing a lot more.  
 

No one in this region is playing the long term leadership role in trying to promote growth though playing the right political games.
 

 

Perhaps many of you idolize Pharrell and  famous entertainers, in general, whilst simultaneously never having liked Virginia Beach. That’s fine. Just recognize your own biases. 

I don’t play those games. I look at everyone individually on his/her own merits and each City, as well. And I was asking questions because no one seems to want to ask any questions; rather, they simply accept Pharrell’s narrative as total fact.  

Fact is, Pharrell is an authority on popular music. That’s it.  His letter was poorly written, incredibly generalized and communicated much of nothing about anything. There’s no logic in what he is saying; it’s all emotion. Calling the City and her leaders “Toxic”  was childish and patently defamatory.  Throwing a temper tantrum, picking up your marbles and your dice and whatever other toys you were playing with and marching off in a huff is no way to deal with your problems. 

Now as to the rest of your post, how do we know that’s what actually happened here? Who declared that a fact? Pharrell? Has the investigation been completed?  Did you expect the City just to accept what Pharrell said happened and call it a day? That’s not the way the real world works. These things take time. And there’s also the matter of the individual officer or officers involved.  You can’t smear their names willy nilly trying to assuage hurt feelings and minimize grief.  

Do the individuals involved in the violence bear any responsibility here? 

As I said, not only is Pharrell not an arbiter of public policing measures, he has no moral authority. I’m sorry for his loss, but trying to take his grief worldwide against  a City that he regularly proclaims claims to love is not the right way to go about solving problems.  

By the way, as to my own biases, I am almost the exact same age as Pharrell. I grew up in the Virginia Beach Schools band program at the same time he was involved. I knew of him at the time. I’ve always liked his music and still enjoy it to this day. I am a native of Virginia Beach and a very proud one at that. My ancestors day back to Norfolk around 1910, my parents were born and raised in Norfolk, and I lived in Norfolk for the better part of two decades. I love the City of Norfolk, but Norfolk also has its own problems with policing and race relations.

Let’s not get it twisted:  Virginia Beach is not the great bugaboo of HR.  

12 hours ago, Qdeathstar said:

How do we know it was wrong? The investigation isn’t done. Are we just supposed to condemn police for the sake of money?

deciding the outcome of  investigations based on political ideologies is certainly dangerous. So is believing outcome x only happened because of a political ideology.

 

 

you mean left lol

I ignored that reference to politics, but thank you for saying this. I didn’t think anyone would even need reminding of such a thing. 

[baobabs727]

20 hours ago, BFG said:

For VB to have called on Pharrell to create a music festival to stop the violence and bridge the racial gap, but not address the ongoing issues within that have existed since the Princess Anne County era is extremely shortsighted and maybe even tone deaf. That half-a**ed letter from the city manager only added fuel to the fire.

Even if SITW miraculously returns to VB, it’ll never feel the same there. Not even if they hold a special summit on race relations. This area is already behind the times; last week set Hampton Roads back a good 30 years.

OK, thank you for actually answering one or more of my questions.  So we move on now. It’s over. 

And now we can rightly address any lingering problems or issues with race and policing absent any perceived quid pro quo with SITW. 
 

[Mountain_Junior]

Patriotic Festival pulls out of VB, will be held Memorial Day weekend in Norfolk

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/virginia-beach/patriotic-festival-pulls-out-of-vb-will-be-held-memorial-day-weekend-in-norfolk/

Excerpt:
“After weeks of speculation, Virginia Beach’s Patriotic Festival is set to move to Norfolk from its longtime home on the Oceanfront. …
The event, now known as Military Festival, is expected to take place at Town Point Park and Norfolk Scope Arena. …
According to an invite, the official announcement is expected Monday morning at Chrysler Hall. …
This is the third major event to pull out of Virginia Beach in the past few months – following the Rock ‘n’ Roll Marathon and Something in the Water.”

[vdogg]

22 minutes ago, Mountain_Junior said:

Patriotic Festival pulls out of VB, will be held Memorial Day weekend in Norfolk

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/virginia-beach/patriotic-festival-pulls-out-of-vb-will-be-held-memorial-day-weekend-in-norfolk/

Excerpt:
“After weeks of speculation, Virginia Beach’s Patriotic Festival is set to move to Norfolk from its longtime home on the Oceanfront. …
The event, now known as Military Festival, is expected to take place at Town Point Park and Norfolk Scope Arena. …
According to an invite, the official announcement is expected Monday morning at Chrysler Hall. …
This is the third major event to pull out of Virginia Beach in the past few months – following the Rock ‘n’ Roll Marathon and Something in the Water.”

Well that's... interesting... Don't know how to read that one, no idea the reasons behind this move. It's certainly a surprise as there were no known issues ongoing and VB has a large military presence. It was a popular festival, though admittedly not my particular cup of tea, it definitely drew crowds.

[BFG]

Might be time for VB to do some serious damage control. At this point, it doesn't matter the reasons; you've lost three major events in what, six weeks? At least two of those events drew crowds from outside Hampton Roads, therefore tourists. Didn't they hire a new tourism board, after some controversy over how to fund that department?