Greenville County Square redevelopment

[gman430]

Brand new renderings of County Square office building here: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/URDCountyAdminBuilding2020Renderings.pdf

Hey Spartan. You can find renderings and site plans here: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/NeighborMtgFinal.pdf and here: https://www.greenvillesc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/6742?fileID=32785 The height limit is due to the concern of residents that live near the site especially in the Haynie-Sirrine neighborhood. They are worried about the impact 20 story buildings would have on their daily lives along with gentrification occurring. Previous zoning until the rezoning happened last week had only allowed for a max of six stories on site. The Planning Commission and City Council feel like a good middle ground between the county, developer, and nearby residents is 12 stories. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by gman430

[motonenterprises]

Sure would've like to have seen that 20.

[apaladin]

2 hours ago, gman430 said:

Brand new renderings of County Square office building here: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/URDCountyAdminBuilding2020Renderings.pdf

Hey Spartan. You can find renderings and site plans here: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/NeighborMtgFinal.pdf and here: https://www.greenvillesc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/6742?fileID=32785 The height limit is due to the concern of residents that live near the site especially in the Haynie-Sirrine neighborhood. They are worried about the impact 20 story buildings would have on their daily lives along with gentrification occurring. Previous zoning until the rezoning happened last week had only allowed for a max of six stories on site. The Planning Commission and City Council feel like a good middle ground between the county, developer, and nearby residents is 12 stories. 

Can someone explain to me what impact a 20 story building would have on nearby neighborhoods that 12 story buildng would not?

[cabelagent]

19 minutes ago, apaladin said:

Can someone explain to me what impact a 20 story building would have on nearby neighborhoods that 12 story buildng would not?

It's the cranes....they don't want to see those real tall tower cranes that you like.  

[Spartan]

8 hours ago, gman430 said:

Brand new renderings of County Square office building here: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/URDCountyAdminBuilding2020Renderings.pdf

Hey Spartan. You can find renderings and site plans here: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/NeighborMtgFinal.pdf and here: https://www.greenvillesc.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/6742?fileID=32785 The height limit is due to the concern of residents that live near the site especially in the Haynie-Sirrine neighborhood. They are worried about the impact 20 story buildings would have on their daily lives along with gentrification occurring. Previous zoning until the rezoning happened last week had only allowed for a max of six stories on site. The Planning Commission and City Council feel like a good middle ground between the county, developer, and nearby residents is 12 stories. 

 

THANKS!! This looks like a well done plan. 

 

5 hours ago, apaladin said:

Can someone explain to me what impact a 20 story building would have on nearby neighborhoods that 12 story buildng would not?

 

In the context of this site, virtually none. If the building were going to be right next to single family houses then I would agree with them, but it looks to be what, 1/4 mile away?  The tallest buildings are far enough away from the neighborhood that given the scale of the redevelopment that is proposed, it really wouldn't make much difference. In all likelihood they won't even know that one building is there, given all of the other density that is proposed. I think the concern about gentrification is legit, though. 

[gvegascple]

21 hours ago, gman430 said:

Brand new renderings of County Square office building here: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/URDCountyAdminBuilding2020Renderings.pdf

 

Anyone else notice that there seems to be a bit of a bait and switch with how the Glass was presented on the exterior? Maybe its just a limitation of the application used to draw it.  Crossing fingers...

Edited February 17, 2020 by gvegascple

[gman430]

7 minutes ago, gvegascple said:

Anyone else notice that there seems to be a bit of a bait and switch with how the Glass was presented on the exterior? Maybe its just a limitation of the application used to draw it.  Crossing fingers...

It looks to me like they just used a cheap application to create the renderings. 

[Gville2012]

21 hours ago, gman430 said:

You can find renderings and site plans here: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/pdf/NeighborMtgFinal.pdf

I know this isnt the exact plan, Page 27 really gives a great view of the impact this could have on the foot print of what we now consider downtown, and growth it could drive even outside of this development around Church and the West End. With everything that is happening with the park to the west and down Academy the footprint is sure to continue to evolve.

[gvegascple]

2 hours ago, gman430 said:

It looks to me like they just used a cheap application to create the renderings. 

That is what I am hoping.  It appears the software doesn't do water features either....  I tend to have this fear of when the other foot is going to drop with a lot of things.  I am waiting for one of those "I am altering the deal, pray I dont alter it any further" changes that we first notice in updated renderings.

[gvegascple]

15 hours ago, Spartan said:

 

THANKS!! This looks like a well done plan. 

 

 

In the context of this site, virtually none. If the building were going to be right next to single family houses then I would agree with them, but it looks to be what, 1/4 mile away?  The tallest buildings are far enough away from the neighborhood that given the scale of the redevelopment that is proposed, it really wouldn't make much difference. In all likelihood they won't even know that one building is there, given all of the other density that is proposed. I think the concern about gentrification is legit, though. 

My only guess would be density.  More people more cars? Maybe more noise, light and air pollution?   Cant stop progress though.  You cant have a place people want to be in and not have the growth that goes with it.  Personally, I am okay with how 12 vs 20 moderates things.  20 seemed and seems so unlikely at the moment and with zoning being flexible in the future it always felt more academic

Edited February 17, 2020 by gvegascple

[gman430]

Halton Road office space info: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/apps/procurementpdf/Uploads/RFP67-003-11-20HaltonRoadCMAR-signed.pdf

[Spartan]

On 2/17/2020 at 11:01 AM, gvegascple said:

My only guess would be density.  More people more cars? Maybe more noise, light and air pollution?   Cant stop progress though.  You cant have a place people want to be in and not have the growth that goes with it.  Personally, I am okay with how 12 vs 20 moderates things.  20 seemed and seems so unlikely at the moment and with zoning being flexible in the future it always felt more academic

 

Does Greenville have the market to support 20 stories? I realize there is at least one building that tall - but given land prices and availability, I'm betting it's a better ROI to do mid-rise. IMO, that's not a bad thing either. I've said it a million times by now - I'd rather see 100 mid rise buildings than 1 high rise. Skyscrapers are cool, don't get me wrong, but a more evenly spread out density will result in a city that feels larger and more urban. 

[johnpro318]

9 minutes ago, Spartan said:

 

Does Greenville have the market to support 20 stories? I realize there is at least one building that tall - but given land prices and availability, I'm betting it's a better ROI to do mid-rise. IMO, that's not a bad thing either. I've said it a million times by now - I'd rather see 100 mid rise buildings than 1 high rise. Skyscrapers are cool, don't get me wrong, but a more evenly spread out density will result in a city that feels larger and more urban. 

What would probably allow it to support that much height would be the fact that it is basically the last site on the river. 

[motonenterprises]

26 minutes ago, Spartan said:

 

Does Greenville have the market to support 20 stories? I realize there is at least one building that tall - but given land prices and availability, I'm betting it's a better ROI to do mid-rise. IMO, that's not a bad thing either. I've said it a million times by now - I'd rather see 100 mid rise buildings than 1 high rise. Skyscrapers are cool, don't get me wrong, but a more evenly spread out density will result in a city that feels larger and more urban. 

The simple answer is yes. 17 is only 3 short and they're building one now. Could've happened with the One project.

[distortedlogic]

35 minutes ago, Spartan said:

 

Does Greenville have the market to support 20 stories? I realize there is at least one building that tall - but given land prices and availability, I'm betting it's a better ROI to do mid-rise. IMO, that's not a bad thing either. I've said it a million times by now - I'd rather see 100 mid rise buildings than 1 high rise. Skyscrapers are cool, don't get me wrong, but a more evenly spread out density will result in a city that feels larger and more urban. 

 

7 minutes ago, motonenterprises said:

The simple answer is yes. 17 is only 3 short and they're building one now. Could've happened with the One project.

Yes. Plus several of the apt projects DT could have easily been that tall with smaller footprints. One thing about the County Square site is that we (and developers) should think 4th demensionally. This will be around for a long time and  will take awhile to build out. What will Greenville be able to support or need in 2030 or 2040? 

[gman430]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

 

Does Greenville have the market to support 20 stories? I realize there is at least one building that tall - but given land prices and availability, I'm betting it's a better ROI to do mid-rise. IMO, that's not a bad thing either. I've said it a million times by now - I'd rather see 100 mid rise buildings than 1 high rise. Skyscrapers are cool, don't get me wrong, but a more evenly spread out density will result in a city that feels larger and more urban. 

Yes especially if it’s mixed use like with apartments, condos, and hotel space like how you see at Falls Tower which is currently under construction. Both of the ONE office buildings are almost completely full (7,100 square feet available out of 395,000 square feet) and Falls Tower only has one floor of office space available (23,500 square feet available out of 153,767 square feet) which is currently in lease negotiations to get filled. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by gman430

[Spartan]

Hmm. Based on what y'all are saying I'd say the market is not quite there if it hasn't happened in this economy. Just my opinion though. But the way Greenville is growing it's just a matter of time.I do agree that fully mixed use is the only way it would work if it includes residential. If there is a high demand for office space then that feels like it would happen in the forseable future.

 

All of that said, I will always believe that a higher volume of mid-rise buildings is way better. I have an on again off again debate with folks in the Spartanburg forum about the height restrictions in downtown, which are loose, but definitely present. I think that until the market is ready to support multiple high rises, I would prefer to not have them. They make for a nice skyline, but anything over about 3-4 floors doesn't have any added effect for the experience on the street.

[gvegascple]

13 hours ago, Spartan said:

Hmm. Based on what y'all are saying I'd say the market is not quite there if it hasn't happened in this economy. Just my opinion though. But the way Greenville is growing it's just a matter of time.I do agree that fully mixed use is the only way it would work if it includes residential. If there is a high demand for office space then that feels like it would happen in the forseable future.

 

All of that said, I will always believe that a higher volume of mid-rise buildings is way better. I have an on again off again debate with folks in the Spartanburg forum about the height restrictions in downtown, which are loose, but definitely present. I think that until the market is ready to support multiple high rises, I would prefer to not have them. They make for a nice skyline, but anything over about 3-4 floors doesn't have any added effect for the experience on the street.

The convention center might get us back up there if/when built.  Its a little hard to tell at this point but it could be quite tall.  It is, as someone said, literally the last available spot on the river, which makes that land valuable enough to go up on in my opinion.    I am also not a height person without regard to the potential impact on  the area around it.  It would never happen because economic forces seem to drive whether we go that tall in the first place, but I wouldn't want to devalue the current available space.  Growth should happen organically (I am sounding like captain obvious).  I am not against incentives for growth, but if we get too big too fast, it could be problematic in a lot of areas.  We need the occupancy to generate the taxes to support the infrastructure that goes along with growth.   One thing that I do think height adds to the street experience (other than shadows) is retail money.  The denser downtown becomes, the more of a micro economy it becomes.  Taller buildings mean more people and more people is more money to support the businesses on the ground which we need right now.  We have the rents of a city with skyscrapers, only without the skyscrapers.

[Spartan]

On 2/21/2020 at 8:57 AM, gvegascple said:

 We have the rents of a city with skyscrapers, only without the skyscrapers.

 

So does Charleston, Washington DC, etc.  IMO it's not a bad place to be in at all as long as its all walkable.

 

I agree with your point about density adding to street traffic. 

[gman430]

Soil drilling underway on site. 

[cabelagent]

4 hours ago, gman430 said:

Soil drilling underway on site. 

Thx...hope they find some 

[gman430]

General Contractor is DPR: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/apps/procurementpdf/Uploads/IOA63-022420.pdf

[apaladin]

47 minutes ago, gman430 said:

General Contractor is DPR: https://www.greenvillecounty.org/apps/procurementpdf/Uploads/IOA63-022420.pdf

This a national company based in California with 28 locations across the country including Greenville. Besides the Greenville location they have locations in Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond and Nashville. Now I wonder how long negotiations will take?

Edited April 14, 2020 by apaladin

[gman430]

Construction to start immediately. Site grading sign put up on site.

Edited May 25, 2020 by gman430

[apaladin]

On 5/25/2020 at 1:20 PM, gman430 said:

Construction to start immediately. Site grading sign put up on site.

You're joshing us, right?