New projects on the West Side

[Khorasaurus1]

I assume the thought is they're giving the current overflow parking area "back to the neighborhood" by freeing it up to be used as actual park space. But I don't know why they need additional surface parking in the southwest corner of the site. Why not just make the ramp a couple levels taller and/or a little larger in footprint? (or do a couple levels underground? I know that's expensive, but they're a well-funded organization). 

They're also doing themselves no favors from a PR standpoint by labelling the existing parking "Future Parking Area."

The plan does appear to improve the pedestrian route to the BRT stop, though. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Khorasaurus1

[Jonesey]

21 hours ago, whitemice said:

Parking on a grass lot is not Accessible; that's a legitimate concern.  This plan is hot garbage, but that's a legitimate concern.

How is it not accessible?

[Khorasaurus1]

13 hours ago, Jonesey said:

How is it not accessible?

It's not barrier-free - you can't traverse it in a wheelchair. Strollers are difficult, for that matter.

[demhem]

On 10/17/2023 at 5:41 PM, Jonesey said:

Why not just use the grass lot of the park for overflow parking like they've been doing forever?  What's the issue?  It might get a little muddy?  If for some chance in hell this actually goes through, wouldn't they have to retain the storm water on the property like the state makes everyone else do?

The Zoo has become so popular on certain days that they park cars across the entire park making it practically unusable for the neighborhood. When overflow was just occasional overflow, the grass situation was fine, but now that it is the status quo, the usability and quality of the park is being degraded. The ground gets packed down/rutted and makes it a poor playing surface for field sports (soccer, ultimate, football) and during dry times the dust blows into the neighborhood,  etc. 

IMO, there is not an easy slam dunk solution here. Things cannot continue as they are, but making large portions of the park a paved parking lot is not acceptable either. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by demhem

[joeDowntown]

I know it's expensive, but I think they should double-down on a ramp and charge for parking. Hopefully they could keep it affordable ($7? $10?). I think the Park WILL lose some greenspace, but keeping most of that loss close to the hillside, and dense parking solutions seem like the way to go (of course, money being no object in my scenario).

Joe

[Khorasaurus1]

10 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

I know it's expensive, but I think they should double-down on a ramp and charge for parking. Hopefully they could keep it affordable ($7? $10?). I think the Park WILL lose some greenspace, but keeping most of that loss close to the hillside, and dense parking solutions seem like the way to go (of course, money being no object in my scenario).

Joe

The Detroit Zoo "charges for parking" by adding a parking fee into their admission price. Parking is free for members IIRC. JBZ could do that. 

[numstead]

7 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I know it's expensive, but I think they should double-down on a ramp and charge for parking. Hopefully they could keep it affordable ($7? $10?). I think the Park WILL lose some greenspace, but keeping most of that loss close to the hillside, and dense parking solutions seem like the way to go (of course, money being no object in my scenario).

Joe

Yeah, a deck would be the best scenario  to save park space and perhaps be able to give back the field that is used for overfow.  Even a single elevated deck over the existing main parking lot (like the one in gaslight village) would at least double the quantity of parking spaces in that area. I did a rough count and the main lot is around 275 spaces. You could probably get to 600 with a fairly simple deck.  Throw some solar panels over top of that bad boy like they did at Bridge Street Market! Even so, you're looking at $20,000 per space (optimistically)  for construction... that's a $12M deck. 

We've been zoo members for the last 4 years and I wouldn't mind shelling out a few bucks to park, especially if I can park in the shade.

[RiversideGR]

What happened to the proposed apartment building at Leonard and Front Street? Is it still alive or is it dead?

[joeDowntown]

Walked past the bar on Summer that they announced as Gin Gin’s a while back. For some reason, construction had stalled but they had new windows in, had filled in the loading zone (for a patio), and they had new exterior lighting. I assume this project is back on? Last time I drove by (a couple months ago?) the loading dock wasn’t regraded. Such a great area, glad that the look to be working on it again (and will be a perfect location to get pre-game drinks when they build the soccer stadium (trying to will it to happen).

[Zads]

More housing coming on it looks like, pending approval near Leonard and Walker, just off of Bristol. 

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/real-estate/developer-proposes-92-units-of-single-family-housing-at-former-gravel-pit/

[GR_Urbanist]

Quote

Stebbins also noted the site plan is designed with setbacks and buffers from the neighbors by putting all the density in the center of the property, with open space on the perimeter. 

So basically a one (maybe 2) road in/out subdivision? There are multiple roads that approach this property. Doesnt the city still lay out new streets?

Why would you even need to "buffer" a city neighborhood from the neighborhoods around it?

[Zads]

14 minutes ago, GR_Urbanist said:

So basically a one (maybe 2) road in/out subdivision? There are multiple roads that approach this property. Doesnt the city still lay out new streets?

Why would you even need to "buffer" a city neighborhood from the neighborhoods around it?

I'm not an expert in urban planning whatsoever, but looking at the parcel, there's no way to exit west toward Covell, so the city can't lay a grid there and if it's private property, not city-owned, then the developer can lay it out how they want. Looking at the buffer zone, it leaves space for a subdivision-type development, not single family homes, and more green space. I'd love to see the street grid continue, but that doesn't seem like it makes sense based on the layout of the properties surrounding this site. 

We need housing so this is great, but I also would've preferred a park there for residents to use. Not many open spaces remain on that side of town that can be turned into a green space park.

[cstonesparty]

4 hours ago, Zads said:

I'm not an expert in urban planning whatsoever, but looking at the parcel, there's no way to exit west toward Covell, so the city can't lay a grid there and if it's private property, not city-owned, then the developer can lay it out how they want. Looking at the buffer zone, it leaves space for a subdivision-type development, not single family homes, and more green space. I'd love to see the street grid continue, but that doesn't seem like it makes sense based on the layout of the properties surrounding this site. 

We need housing so this is great, but I also would've preferred a park there for residents to use. Not many open spaces remain on that side of town that can be turned into a green space park.

I was under the impression the city was considering acquiring it for a park since all the proposals over recent years had been rejected for not fitting the community surrounding the parcel.  Will be interesting to see what happens with this one...

[Khorasaurus1]

4 hours ago, Zads said:

I'm not an expert in urban planning whatsoever, but looking at the parcel, there's no way to exit west toward Covell, so the city can't lay a grid there and if it's private property, not city-owned, then the developer can lay it out how they want. Looking at the buffer zone, it leaves space for a subdivision-type development, not single family homes, and more green space. I'd love to see the street grid continue, but that doesn't seem like it makes sense based on the layout of the properties surrounding this site. 

Generally, developers build roads, and then either give them to a public entity to maintain (City, Road Commission, etc) or a homeowner's association maintains them as private roads.

[Jonesey]

9 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

So basically a one (maybe 2) road in/out subdivision? There are multiple roads that approach this property. Doesnt the city still lay out new streets?

Why would you even need to "buffer" a city neighborhood from the neighborhoods around it?

There are significant elevation changes in the area and I dont think that would be possible.   It's not much of a grid in that area, also probably due to the elevation changes.

 

4 hours ago, cstonesparty said:

I was under the impression the city was considering acquiring it for a park since all the proposals over recent years had been rejected for not fitting the community surrounding the parcel.  Will be interesting to see what happens with this one...

I believe that's the property across the street, it's not really buildable (also due to elevation changes). I think they said they could only fit two houses on it

[Cookin_peacocks]

16 hours ago, Jonesey said:

There are significant elevation changes in the area and I dont think that would be possible.   It's not much of a grid in that area, also probably due to the elevation changes.

 

I believe that's the property across the street, it's not really buildable (also due to elevation changes). I think they said they could only fit two houses on it

I have a friend whose property butts right up to that property and I always tease him that the city is building a 40 story tower that's going to look down on his house.

[Zads]

Not super significant but the Walker Avenue Laundry on Walker and Lincoln across from Dairy Queen has permanently closed. I was told it used to be a 7-Eleven back in the day.

I recently moved to the area, down the street from this location and my hopes are high for something better than a laundromat. I hope that space doesn't stay vacant for long and becomes a coffee shop or something similar.

[thebeerqueer]

47 minutes ago, Zads said:

Not super significant but the Walker Avenue Laundry on Walker and Lincoln across from Dairy Queen has permanently closed. I was told it used to be a 7-Eleven back in the day.

I recently moved to the area, down the street from this location and my hopes are high for something better than a laundromat. I hope that space doesn't stay vacant for long and becomes a coffee shop or something similar.

Yep, that spot was 100% a 7-11 back in the day.  It's a strange shaped parcel but a clever developer could make good use of the spot. 

[walker]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:35 AM, joeDowntown said:

Uh oh, the county just kicked a hornets nest:

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/real-estate/john-ball-zoo-neighbors-at-odds-over-proposed-parking-expansion-traffic-flow-changes/

Parking at the zoo can be a real pain. This seems like a logical plan (maybe more ramps are necessary to minimize impact on the park?). I don’t envy anyone that has to present this plan to the public. 

Joe

Just a follow-up on the discussion last month on John Ball Zoo parking plans.  Today I received an invitation via an email to " Join JBZ's Tele-Town Hall" on Wednesday, November 15 at 6 PM where they will discuss the new master plan including importantly what they are proposing for parking.  But you don't need a special invitation to dial into this meeting.   I found this zoo website of the master plan and if you slide down a bit, it gives the information on how to attend the meeting online.  I don't know if this is interactive or it is just them presenting:

   JBZ masterplan and instructions for attending online meeting

[joeDowntown]

John Ball Zoo parking plan is DOA. Getting additional parking for the zoo is going to be heavily scrutinized no matter what. Hope they take some time to figure this out for good:

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/real-estate/kent-county-indefinitely-delays-vote-on-john-ball-zoo-surface-parking-plan/

[Cookin_peacocks]

7 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

John Ball Zoo parking plan is DOA. Getting additional parking for the zoo is going to be heavily scrutinized no matter what. Hope they take some time to figure this out for good:

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/real-estate/kent-county-indefinitely-delays-vote-on-john-ball-zoo-surface-parking-plan/

Build a ramp that connects the roof to the zoo and have displays on it. 

 

Problem solved.

[Jonesey]

Why not just use the dump?  I'm sure there are liabilities and they want to put solar on there, but it could work.  Isn't there like a 5 foot concrete cap on it?

That or Millennium

[whitemice]

13 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

John Ball Zoo parking plan is DOA.

Another recent win for advocates!   It's encouraging to see people stepping back up after a rather chilly decade.   Now, hopefully, we'll begin to see people come around to rally for things and not just against [all legitimately stupid] things.

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, whitemice said:

Another recent win for advocates!   It's encouraging to see people stepping back up after a rather chilly decade.   Now, hopefully, we'll begin to see people come around to rally for things and not just against [all legitimately stupid] things.

Agreed. I think that plan was dead on arrival and they should have known opposition would be fierce. But I also hope it isn’t just opposition to change/anything and they will support a better plan that respects the park but also adds parking they need. 

Joe

[Zads]

16 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

John Ball Zoo parking plan is DOA. Getting additional parking for the zoo is going to be heavily scrutinized no matter what. Hope they take some time to figure this out for good:

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/real-estate/kent-county-indefinitely-delays-vote-on-john-ball-zoo-surface-parking-plan/

I totally understand why JBZ needs more parking. They are always busy, which is a great "problem" to have if we want to call it that. I don't think they should pave over green space in the park just for cars.

The best option to me is to study the financial needs of a parking garage where the current parking lot is. I understand that commuter lots are not ideal for a zoo, but you're in a downtown location. Maybe study other zoos near the city center and see how they are handling their parking needs. It's really quite odd that they haven't studied that yet.

Clearly the neighbors, myself included, don't want another parking lot. 

I really am glad to see more civic engagement from neighbors, whether you like this or not. The more involved we get, the more we have a voice in our own community.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Zads