New Hotels in/around Uptown

[CLT2014]

36 minutes ago, j-man said:

Are they ever going to do something about the transit station?

CATS has plans to replace it with a public-private partnership. The bus stations would be on the lower levels of the building, retail on the perimeter, and a tower above. 

While the transit center will be shiny / new, I think it would still remain one of the main destinations for Charlotte's non-profits to drop homeless people to start their day. Currently, the transit center is the main dropping point for the Room in the Inn program for example after the homeless have an overnight stay at non-profits and churches. It is possible that will shift to Gateway Station if a better hub. The presence of homeless and low income people not in the banker bro uniform is not going to just magically change just cause the building is fancy though. It will still be a bus station and major connecting point for a cohort of Charlotte completely reliant on transit. What I think people ultimately want is that population to just disappear so the neighborhood feels cool / affluent, rather than be reminded a lot of people can't afford a Jeep Grand Cherokee for the Whitewater Center visits and ride transit to be hip. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by CLT2014

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

^Not disagreeing, but I do think a revamped transportation center can work. Nothing about the current CTC is attractive. I know I use San frans “CTC” a lot but that is literally a tourist attraction there. Not saying we need to build a massive park on top of ours (which would be awesome) but just saying it can be better and the proposed multi use idea would bring a lot more foot traffic which would help alleviate the “sketchiness” feeling of walking around or near it. But this area can have both our CTC and feel safe(r). Moxy will help. Other developments will help as well. Other big cities implement their mass transit and bus stations just fine. Not sure why everything here in a one block radius of CTC gets neglected. 

[15895]

Charlotte used to use Tryon Street as a bus hub. Since the Light Rail (both the first phase and extension) have increasingly had bus routes rerouted into the stations.

In DC, There isn't really a bus hub. Every bus route seemingly begins and ends at a Metro station. I think this is a common approach these days in mass transit for most cities (decentralization of bus systems). IMO, a revamped CTC should cater to Express buses and a few key select routes Particularly folks beginning or ending their trip uptown or in center city) and make the revamped CTC nice. 

Maybe Expand the community bus hubs that tend to be inconvenient to Light Rail and act as neighborhood circulators and  for other routes, route as much buses through light rail stations as possible. Though IMO, I think that is the plan and I think it's pretty well implemented. CTC doesn't need to be a transfer point.

[Madison Parkitect]

49 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Charlotte used to use Tryon Street as a bus hub. Since the Light Rail (both the first phase and extension) have increasingly had bus routes rerouted into the stations.

In DC, There isn't really a bus hub. Every bus route seemingly begins and ends at a Metro station. I think this is a common approach these days in mass transit for most cities (decentralization of bus systems). IMO, a revamped CTC should cater to Express buses and a few key select routes Particularly folks beginning or ending their trip uptown or in center city) and make the revamped CTC nice. 

Maybe Expand the community bus hubs that tend to be inconvenient to Light Rail and act as neighborhood circulators and  for other routes, route as much buses through light rail stations as possible. Though IMO, I think that is the plan and I think it's pretty well implemented. CTC doesn't need to be a transfer point.

I've never really understood why there has to be a bus hub uptown at all. Why can't there just be bus stops along two crossing major streets and people just get off where they need to? Charlotte's bus system is (unfortunately) small enough that it wouldn't overcrowd the streets to do it that way. Bus hubs are so much better suited for park-and-ride situations.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Madison Parkitect

[JRCLT]

Charlotte used to use Tryon Street as a bus hub. Since the Light Rail (both the first phase and extension) have increasingly had bus routes rerouted into the stations.
In DC, There isn't really a bus hub. Every bus route seemingly begins and ends at a Metro station. I think this is a common approach these days in mass transit for most cities (decentralization of bus systems). IMO, a revamped CTC should cater to Express buses and a few key select routes Particularly folks beginning or ending their trip uptown or in center city) and make the revamped CTC nice. 
Maybe Expand the community bus hubs that tend to be inconvenient to Light Rail and act as neighborhood circulators and  for other routes, route as much buses through light rail stations as possible. Though IMO, I think that is the plan and I think it's pretty well implemented. CTC doesn't need to be a transfer point.

So…have the BLE handle transfers?

[tozmervo]

Recall that for both the Blue Line and BLE, there were major bus route reworks that reduced the number of routes going Uptown by quite a bit, basically by terminating bus stops at BL stations. 

One real, major problem is that Charlotte's street network is awful for a true non-hub system. Apart from razing the city and starting over, that's not really a problem that can be fixed, either.  CATS has been slowly, piecemeal trying to reduce the dependence on hub and spoke with mixed success. If they can get momentum with enhanced bus lines (dedicated ROW, travel priority, etc) they could run through routes that just pass through Uptown going from one corner of the city to another. But for that to be reliable, they really need the tools to keep better schedules.

As for the CTC, the only reason replacement is being discussed is because CATS was approached with a P3 proposal. It's pretty far down the priority list for CATS, and they probably couldn't do anything until Gateway is open anyway (and we know how long that P3 project is taking)

[CltFlyer]

With the Intercontinental now apparently "officially back on track".  This means all of the proposed uptown hotel projects that were "on hold" or "stalled due to covid are officially back on track!

Element by Westin (formerly Even Hotel)

Homewood Suites

Moxy Hotel 

Intercontinental 

 

I'm sure there may have been some behind the scenes hotels that were near being announced, but it's exciting to see that none of the announced uptown hotels put on hold by covid stalled out completely.

[rancenc]

Good news for the hospitality industry in the state!  Maybe we will see an acceleration of on hold hotel projects in downtown!

https://www.wfae.org/business/2022-03-28/north-carolina-hotels-are-rebounding-as-events-and-conventions-resume?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axioslocal_charlotte&stream=top

 

[KJHburg]

9 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

With the Intercontinental now apparently "officially back on track".  This means all of the proposed uptown hotel projects that were "on hold" or "stalled due to covid are officially back on track!

Element by Westin (formerly Even Hotel)

Homewood Suites

Moxy Hotel 

Intercontinental 

 

I'm sure there may have been some behind the scenes hotels that were near being announced, but it's exciting to see that none of the announced uptown hotels put on hold by covid stalled out completely.

the other thing is none of these hotels are extremely big in terms of rooms.  I know the Intercontinental is tall but I dont think it has more than 300 rooms and probably less.  There should be enough of a market to absorb all these hotel rooms especially since the Homewood Suites is different type of product the long term stay. 

[DMann]

Nevermind!

Edited March 30, 2022 by DMann

[RANYC]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

the other thing is none of these hotels are extremely big in terms of rooms.  I know the Intercontinental is tall but I dont think it has more than 300 rooms and probably less.  There should be enough of a market to absorb all these hotel rooms especially since the Homewood Suites is different type of product the long term stay. 

I prefer fewer units per property so that way we get hotels in more places scattered around uptown for the purpose of meeting aggregate demand.  Lends itself to a livelier uptown, all-around.

like to avoid big-box anything in uptown, including hotels.   

[CLT2014]

6 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I prefer fewer units per property so that way we get hotels in more places scattered around uptown for the purpose of meeting aggregate demand.  Lends itself to a livelier uptown, all-around.

like to avoid big-box anything in uptown, including hotels.   

Main instance where "big-box" hotels are a benefit is organizing large scale events and conventions. For the organizer, being able to accommodate everybody at the same hotel simplifies planning and logistics versus spreading out your event across multiple hotels. This mainly benefits the convention center though, so in areas like N. Tryon, that isn't so much of a priority as those hotels are already too far a walk. 

[j-man]

41 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I prefer fewer units per property so that way we get hotels in more places scattered around uptown for the purpose of meeting aggregate demand.  Lends itself to a livelier uptown, all-around.

like to avoid big-box anything in uptown, including hotels.   

I think that's ok for hotels spread across the city in less dense areas. Maybe like near the airport or business parkways, and such. Center city, and for a bigger city like Charlotte, I hate seeing small hotels when just blocks away are =stadiums, arenas, theaters, and convention centers. I think they should be large scale hotels like 400+ in Uptown minimum. And small hotels never do anything for the skyline..

[RANYC]

2 hours ago, j-man said:

I think that's ok for hotels spread across the city in less dense areas. Maybe like near the airport or business parkways, and such. Center city, and for a bigger city like Charlotte, I hate seeing small hotels when just blocks away are =stadiums, arenas, theaters, and convention centers. I think they should be large scale hotels like 400+ in Uptown minimum. And small hotels never do anything for the skyline..

Would rather an enjoyable and lively ground-level experience spread across as much of the center city streetscape as possible, than seeing the skyline from afar.  I live right in the urban core, and the experience I have stepping out of my door and walking to and fro is much more important to me.  I'm also much more partial to the experience of a boutique hotel in Barcelona or creative uses of an alley-way than I am to a big box monolith, but I acknowledge there are plenty on UP for whom the skyscraper love runs deep

Edited March 30, 2022 by RANYC

[KJHburg]

the Intercontinental as planned is about 200 rooms.  

I like big hotels myself but until the convention business comes back with a sense of normalcy I think planning can start but I think 5-10 years out as it will require taxpayer assistance. 

Carolina Theatre Expansion InterContinental Hotel | DCI Engineers (dci-engineers.com)

[RANYC]

Ironically, when you’re in uptown in a high-rise and you look out the window, you can see how patchy development has been and how many gaps there are.  So many under-utilized lots or stretches.

[j-man]

[TCLT]

On 3/29/2022 at 9:54 PM, tozmervo said:

As for the CTC, the only reason replacement is being discussed is because CATS was approached with a P3 proposal. It's pretty far down the priority list for CATS, and they probably couldn't do anything until Gateway is open anyway (and we know how long that P3 project is taking)

Why would they need to wait for Gateway? The proposed development includes temporarily shifting the bus operation to the adjacent lot that the developer owns so there shouldn't be an operational reason to delay this project.

[Reverie39]

21 hours ago, RANYC said:

Ironically, when you’re in uptown in a high-rise and you look out the window, you can see how patchy development has been and how many gaps there are.  So many under-utilized lots or stretches.

Patchy is the right word, and I don't mind the idea of a lot of those being filled with low-rise structures. It's better than nothing and is easy to make into an enjoyable street-level experience. I see other cities with tons of like 2-4 story structures packed densely emanating from the skyscraper core, something like that could work well in Charlotte. Build a garage or two and then replace those parking lots!

[RANYC]

2 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Patchy is the right word, and I don't mind the idea of a lot of those being filled with low-rise structures. It's better than nothing and is easy to make into an enjoyable street-level experience. I see other cities with tons of like 2-4 story structures packed densely emanating from the skyscraper core, something like that could work well in Charlotte. Build a garage or two and then replace those parking lots!

Yes, I'd love to see more low and mid-rise structures right in uptown to enhance the pedestrian experience and reduce the patchiness of our downtown.  Real estate price tag in uptown often cited as a reason why we shouldn't expect low-rise infill.  If there were some way to incentivize stop-gap projects, i.e. simple & low-rise structures for utilization now before more intense mid-rise and high-rise projects with parking get built 10-20 years from now, then maybe we'd see more progress addressing the patchiness. 

[j-man]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:04 PM, RANYC said:

Would rather an enjoyable and lively ground-level experience spread across as much of the center city streetscape as possible, than seeing the skyline from afar.  I live right in the urban core, and the experience I have stepping out of my door and walking to and fro is much more important to me.  I'm also much more partial to the experience of a boutique hotel in Barcelona or creative uses of an alley-way than I am to a big box monolith, but I acknowledge there are plenty on UP for whom the skyscraper love runs deep

I agree with your point, but at the same time, you can definitely have both at the same time. I don't think just because hotels are on a smaller scale that they will ultimately bring more of an atmosphere to the ground level. Because most hotels that are smaller do not have retail options because they are a lot of times so small and don't have that many guest to support it. Just think if Charlotte had multiple 1,000 room hotels spread across Uptown. Maybe like 4/5 in already key areas, that would make a more vibrant atmosphere than all these tiny hotels whose bottom 8 floors are all parking garages. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by j-man

[j-man]

Activity!!!

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Wonder if there is any retail set for this new hotel at the bottom? With the additional foot traffic, hope to see the old lemon love spot filled with something cool and the little jewel box above Whole Foods. There’s a lot of service orientated retail along this street (nails, bank, medical, etc) id like to see a food/bev option in this area (not counting Starbucks). 

Edited April 12, 2022 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[j-man]

1 hour ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Wonder if there is any retail set for this new hotel at the bottom? With the additional foot traffic, hope to see the old lemon love spot filled with something cool and the little jewel box above Whole Foods. There’s a lot of service orientated retail along this street (nails, bank, medical, etc) id like to see a food/bev option in this area (not counting Starbucks). 

I still hate that this one little lot is divided into two hotels. Seems like a waste of space for that added driveway through the middle. ugh.

[deleted account]

1 hour ago, j-man said:

I still hate that this one little lot is divided into two hotels. Seems like a waste of space for that added driveway through the middle. ugh.

I have zero problem with 2 flags. My problem is with the abhorrent architecture on the Home 2 Suites building. It's the worst looking new building erected Uptown in my 18 years here (despite some stiff competition). 

I mean, WTF?!? 

Edited April 12, 2022 by JBS