SunRail

[GregoryMCSE]

...lets not start slinging mud at the orange and blue...

this last second stuff is BS. I agree with GregoryMCSE about having to check that website just in case someone tries to sneak something thru...

TBC...

I like the Gators. I was to hard on Polk County and Lakeland but I am glad you agree w/ me about the last second stuff. For what it's worth I called Senator Dockerys office in Tally and her staff hung up on me. I was polite and said I did not appreciate her trying to divert funds from Commuter Rail. They said that Senator Dockery did not try to divert funds and hung up on me. Senator Dockery represents all that I find wrong about Pork Barrel politics. She is literally working her a$$ off every day to defeat commuter rail and I am pretty sure she will prevail unless the people of Central Florida wake up and make sure their voices are heard.

[Go Gators]

I will write out a long response later...you'll like what you hear...

[JRS1]

it seems like Dockery is positioning herself to make a deal for some concessions for her district;

[Go Gators]

Ok, let me first preface all this by saying that I am an "insider" in Tallahassee who has been working on this since this past summer, and proponent of the rail project. I was a polk county native for a small portion of my life (hence why I took offense to your Polk County claim), and raised the most part in WP. I'll try and address you in a somewhat point-by-point basis, your quotes will be in italics. Here goes...

Are you kidding me? Is it my responsibility to check out the Senates web site "every evening" to see what they are up to? Good government entails transparency. I shouldn't have to dig around government websites "every evening" to find out about a vote that is this important

Yes. It is your responsibility to be an informed, responsible citizen. The fact that you looked up Senator Dockery's contact information puzzles me as to why you cant look up the calendar. You go to www.flsenate.gov, and under the "Publications" section, click on "Calendars/Weekly Schedules," and then click on the appropriate date. Its VERY easy. Here's the link:

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/index.cfm?...amp;Tab=session

"Go Gators here are some opinions, other than yours...Bottom line Senator Dockery is against more freight trains running through her voters neighborhoods."

That's a nice article from Mike Thomas. Fun to read and entertaining. But it is a TINY part of a much larger story. Here's the story as short as I can make it. Sen. Dockery has the biggest ego in the Senate. She and the other Senator from Polk County, Sen. Alexander, do not get along...at all. At one point, it was looking as if Sen. Dockery would become President of the Senate down the line. Long story short, that was derailed...by Sen. Alexander and Co. Bad blood became much worse. Fast forward to this year. The CSX project comes up. There are three senators who would have the best chance of pushing this through, Sen's. Dockery, Alexander, and Storms (from Tampa, but has a slice of Polk in her district). Sen. Alexander gets it because he helped over throw the Villalobos and possible Dockery presidency. This means that if the deal happens, J.D. gets credit...and that infuriates Dockery more than anything. Her line of thinking is "If I cant have it and pass it, then I will do everything I can to make sure NOBODY does!" Sad but true. That is basically the whole story. The REAL bottom line is that Senator Dockery is against it because she didnt get her way.

Go Gators here is a defination of Pork Barrel for you.

A political metaphor for the appropriation of government spending for projects that are intended primarily to benefit particular constituents or campaign contributors.

Yes, but thats not what Dockery is doing here.

And for you KKK comment again...Im just saying that dont think that anything like that is exclusive only to Polk County. The sad reality is it may be the guy who works in the highrise office building cubicle right next to you too (used cubicle only for illustrative purposes).

Edited April 9, 2008 by Go Gators

[JRS1]

That's a nice article from Mike Thomas. Fun to read and entertaining. But it is a TINY part of a much larger story. Here's the story as short as I can make it. Sen. Dockery has the biggest ego in the Senate. She and the other Senator from Polk County, Sen. Alexander, do not get along...at all. At one point, it was looking as if Sen. Dockery would become President of the Senate down the line. Long story short, that was derailed...by Sen. Alexander and Co. Bad blood became much worse. Fast forward to this year. The CSX project comes up. There are three senators who would have the best chance of pushing this through, Sen's. Dockery, Alexander, and Storms (from Tampa, but has a slice of Polk in her district). Sen. Alexander gets it because he helped over throw the Villalobos and possible Dockery presidency. This means that if the deal happens, J.D. gets credit...and that infuriates Dockery more than anything. Her line of thinking is "If I cant have it and pass it, then I will do everything I can to make sure NOBODY does!" Sad but true. That is basically the whole story. The REAL bottom line is that Senator Dockery is against it because she didnt get her way.

this is relevant.

[GregoryMCSE]

Ok, let me first preface all this by saying that I am an "insider" in Tallahassee who has been working on this since this past summer, and proponent of the rail project. I was a polk county native for a small portion of my life (hence why I took offense to your Polk County claim), and raised the most part in WP. I'll try and address you in a somewhat point-by-point basis, your quotes will be in italics. Here goes...

Are you kidding me? Is it my responsibility to check out the Senates web site "every evening" to see what they are up to? Good government entails transparency. I shouldn't have to dig around government websites "every evening" to find out about a vote that is this important

Yes. It is your responsibility to be an informed, responsible citizen. The fact that you looked up Senator Dockery's contact information puzzles me as to why you cant look up the calendar. You go to www.flsenate.gov, and under the "Publications" section, click on "Calendars/Weekly Schedules," and then click on the appropriate date. Its VERY easy. Here's the link:

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/index.cfm?...amp;Tab=session

"Go Gators here are some opinions, other than yours...Bottom line Senator Dockery is against more freight trains running through her voters neighborhoods."

That's a nice article from Mike Thomas. Fun to read and entertaining. But it is a TINY part of a much larger story. Here's the story as short as I can make it. Sen. Dockery has the biggest ego in the Senate. She and the other Senator from Polk County, Sen. Alexander, do not get along...at all. At one point, it was looking as if Sen. Dockery would become President of the Senate down the line. Long story short, that was derailed...by Sen. Alexander and Co. Bad blood became much worse. Fast forward to this year. The CSX project comes up. There are three senators who would have the best chance of pushing this through, Sen's. Dockery, Alexander, and Storms (from Tampa, but has a slice of Polk in her district). Sen. Alexander gets it because he helped over throw the Villalobos and possible Dockery presidency. This means that if the deal happens, J.D. gets credit...and that infuriates Dockery more than anything. Her line of thinking is "If I cant have it and pass it, then I will do everything I can to make sure NOBODY does!" Sad but true. That is basically the whole story. The REAL bottom line is that Senator Dockery is against it because she didnt get her way.

Go Gators here is a defination of Pork Barrel for you.

A political metaphor for the appropriation of government spending for projects that are intended primarily to benefit particular constituents or campaign contributors.

Yes, but thats not what Dockery is doing here.

And for you KKK comment again...Im just saying that dont think that anything like that is exclusive only to Polk County. The sad reality is it may be the guy who works in the highrise office building cubicle right next to you too (used cubicle only for illustrative purposes).

Great post. I must concede you are more insider knowledge than me. I stand corrected. I still worry that Sen Dockery will derail commuter rail. What do you think? does she have the power to derail this thing? Can we both agree that she is a horses a$$?

[JRS1]

the sentiment here is that she wants something in return and that they'll get to the point where, behind closed doors, they'll do a deal to get her to stop being such a beotch.

[Go Gators]

Great post. I must concede you are more insider knowledge than me. I stand corrected. I still worry that Sen Dockery will derail commuter rail. What do you think? does she have the power to derail this thing? Can we both agree that she is a horses a$$?

Thanks. I certainly dont want to start anything. I really dont think she can derail (no pun intended) the bill. Last I heard, the votes are there to pass it. But that can certainly change at any moment.

[Go Gators]

As another FYI...if any of you want to watch the House Representatives online, you can. You may also watch the senate at www.flsenate.gov

On the House website, the bill they are currently discussing will show in a panel on the right side.

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Ses...ve/preview.aspx

[neon9]

What the heck happened to the post I made earlier? Maybe it will appear later...

Suffice to say that I think it's absurd that any 'involved citizen' should have to search through 30 pages of vague scheduling of what the Florida legislature is going to be debating. Especially considering that the details of what they will be debating is not available as far as I know.

Also, feel free to tell your represenatives how you feel. Write, call, whatever. Good luck with that. I have, maybe 10% of the time I got a form letter back or perhaps a form e-mail. Or, to paraphrase George Carlin, you can play with yourself instead. At least you might have something to show for that after you're done.

I remember calling R. Keller just before or after the war started and his staff member laughed, said 'he supports the president', and lied when they said they would give me a call back to discuss. Years later he looked at the polls and changed his mind. I wrote him the other day prior to a visit to DC and didn't hear back at all.

I'm still waiting to hear from Tally about what might happen to the money to help people install solar systems (it ran out last year). Until then my money will just go into agri. and metal ETF's, oil trusts and futures.

The only thing most politicans care about is money and getting re-elected, and without some big group like AARP or similar behind you they could care less.

Meanwhile:

http://www.bocaratonnews.com/news/local/33...ship-record.php

Tri-Rail weekday ridership increased almost 20 percent in March 2008 compared to the previous year, according to the South Florida Regional Transportation Authority, which operates the train service.

The weekday average was 14,381 passengers, the highest weekday ridership ever recorded by the authority, officials said. The overall rise for both February and March exceeded 15 percent.

I understand they are going to lower fares soon they are doing so well.

Meanwhile, what are we doing? Oh that's right, building more highways to suburbs in an era of ever increasing oil prices.

Edited April 10, 2008 by neon9

[Go Gators]

The Senators/Representatives have to read those same pages...

[GregoryMCSE]

Here are just a couple of op-ed pieces from the Orlando Sentinel. Commuter Rail will make it IF the State can reach a deal with CSX on liabilty issues. I assume that is a pretty big IF though...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/n...0,2205527.story

Desperate need for vital project

John Lord

April 10, 2008

Like many others, I am very concerned about disruption in the progress of Central Florida's commuter-rail system. Central Florida is at a critical juncture when it comes to transportation. We all know that new roads alone won't be enough to handle the growth our area expects in coming years.

Now, as we are so near to commuter rail becoming a reality, a small but vocal group is attempting to block the project from moving forward, refusing to work through issues that would allow the system to move forward.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/n...0,1918126.story

Find the will to work matters out

Brad Ashwell

Transportation problems are at the heart of many issues that Floridians care most about.

Unfortunately, Florida lacks the transportation system we need to confront the problems of the 21st century. Worsening dependency on expensive oil, an overheating planet, and aging bridges and roads are all front-page transportation issues that current systems are ill-suited to solve.

Edited April 10, 2008 by GregoryMCSE

[prahaboheme]

The Senators/Representatives have to read those same pages...

Isn't it their job to?

[Go Gators]

^ Yes, but the point is, there is no easy way to know whats going on without having to read those pages. That IS the easy way.

[bulldogger]

I don't understand where the problem lies with the state's online system. In years past, you would have no way of knowing what was going on in Tally unless there was a news report. Any taxpaying citizen can now go online in the convenience of their home or the public library and look at what our representatives are planning to do the next day.

I've used the system in the past to follow certain legislation. It has helped me know when and to whom to write emails.

Edited April 10, 2008 by bulldogger

[neon9]

^ Yes, but the point is, there is no easy way to know whats going on without having to read those pages. That IS the easy way.

Maybe I'm not paying close enough attention to the link, but it seems to just be a vague schedule of what committee is scheduled to meet and perhaps a little blurb of the bills they might discuss. From what I understand, that might be very well all they read, and not the actual bills themselves or what impact those bills might have. And as praha stated, that is their job to read these things. The WHOLE things. Could be a small blurb in one that says no government funding can go to support trains colored red. (Ok, that's silly, but you get the idea-I have heard of things just that strange).

Or I can spend my time looking at the shortage of NPK (fertilizer) and make a quick 1.5% on POT (Saskatchwan Potash) today. Or another 2% on AAV (Adv. Energy Fund) today. In other words, why bother, esp. when you seem to imply a lot of this is a silly turf battle? I can make money and prepare myself, or waste my time trying to cajole politicans to do the right thing.

Man, am I cynical or what?

'Bill Bonner of the DailyReckoning had a piece on technology some months ago that would very aptly apply to the whole ethanol mess:

"Man cannot leave well enough alone, we conclude. He gets ahold of an idea and he cannot help himself. He takes it up clumsily, as he would a new wrench. Then he begins twisting it...hammering it...stretching it out...sharpening it...until he can use it to cut his own throat.

Every innovation turns against him. His television brings him reality shows. His automobiles lead him into traffic jams. And scarcely a single generation after he invented them, his airplanes are dropping bombs on London."'

[JRS1]

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/4/...te_attacks.html

[Go Gators]

Maybe I'm not paying close enough attention to the link, but it seems to just be a vague schedule of what committee is scheduled to meet and perhaps a little blurb of the bills they might discuss. From what I understand, that might be very well all they read, and not the actual bills themselves or what impact those bills might have. And as praha stated, that is their job to read these things. The WHOLE things. Could be a small blurb in one that says no government funding can go to support trains colored red. (Ok, that's silly, but you get the idea-I have heard of things just that strange).

Or In other words, why bother, esp. when you seem to imply a lot of this is a silly turf battle?

Yes, it is a schedule showing all bills that will be discussed that day. If you want to know what the bills are, they provide you with all information necessary to look it up. Its not their job to spoon feed it to the people. They make the information available. Then, its up to the individual to decide whether or not they want to put in a little bit of effort and find out what their government is doing.

Im not implying its a silly turf war at all...Im TELLING you that it is. Im not saying its right, or admiral, but thats the way it is in this case.

[Go Gators]

The House just passed the CSX/Commuter Rail bill out of the Economic Expansion and Infrastructure Council, chaired by Rep. Dean Cannon from WP.

[spenser1058]

While GoGators continues his excellent contributions on the politics behind this, here's a link to the most recent story from the Tampa Tribune about the original deal:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/apr/11/na...eter---for-csx/

It's of interest that the Trib seems to be the go-to paper on this - I wondered what piqued their interest (Florida Trend, a sister publication to the St. Pete Times, has been using TT's reporting in its summaries instead of the Times' - despite the fact the Times normally has the resources for more in-depth coverage).

[Go Gators]

While GoGators continues his excellent contributions on the politics behind this, here's a link to the most recent story from the Tampa Tribune about the original deal:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/apr/11/na...eter---for-csx/

It's of interest that the Trib seems to be the go-to paper on this - I wondered what piqued their interest (Florida Trend, a sister publication to the St. Pete Times, has been using TT's reporting in its summaries instead of the Times' - despite the fact the Times normally has the resources for more in-depth coverage).

An important someone on the Downtown Lakeland Partnership has a spouse who happens to be a reporter for the Trib.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/04/csx...r.html#comments

Edited April 11, 2008 by Go Gators

[spenser1058]

An important someone on the Downtown Lakeland Partnership has a spouse who happens to be a reporter for the Trib.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/04/csx...r.html#comments

Thanks for that. It makes much more sense now.

[neon9]

Yes, it is a schedule showing all bills that will be discussed that day. If you want to know what the bills are, they provide you with all information necessary to look it up. Its not their job to spoon feed it to the people. They make the information available. Then, its up to the individual to decide whether or not they want to put in a little bit of effort and find out what their government is doing.

Im not implying its a silly turf war at all...Im TELLING you that it is. Im not saying its right, or admiral, but thats the way it is in this case.

I understand it's a turf war. It's been described in the paper. So again, what is the point? So we can know for sure how corrupt and petty our legislators are? Finding out about something you can't change probably doesn't help much.

That's a cop out. Most people don't have time to go to city council meetings unless they get a notice about something nearby being discussed. And our government thinks notifying us a week before discussing bills (during our weekly check of their website) with hundreds of lines each often times written by lobbyists is 'open government'?

By the way I'm still waiting to hear back from my senator and rep about getting those solar planel rebates. Gotta love that government in the sunshine.

[neon9]

Yes, it is a schedule showing all bills that will be discussed that day. If you want to know what the bills are, they provide you with all information necessary to look it up. Its not their job to spoon feed it to the people. They make the information available. Then, its up to the individual to decide whether or not they want to put in a little bit of effort and find out what their government is doing.

Im not implying its a silly turf war at all...Im TELLING you that it is. Im not saying its right, or admiral, but thats the way it is in this case.

Well, as I'm still waiting to hear from both my rep. and senator, I piddled around and did find an 'energy efficiency' bill sponsored by...well, he just happens to be my very hard to reach Senator, Mr. Lee Constantine. He's taken the bold step of introducing a 200 line bill that might (it's hard to tell) set up some kind of board to recommend improvements to efficiency standards for new building construction. What a visionary thinker! While other countries (UK, Germany) have set goals of virtually 'zero energy' homes to be met in the next few years, and the UK is requiring efficiency audits for sales of older homes, we might get a commission to look into doing something in the distant future!

You'll excuse my sarcasm, but that effort really told me alot about what 'my' government is up to.

Meanwhile, John McCain has now come out in support of a...

"gasoline tax holiday" this summer by declining to collect federal gas taxes as a way to lower fuel prices

Whoo! Party on dude! Oil just hit $114, we are finally seeing a slight dip in gas use, and what do we do? Lower the price just a little while roads are falling apart!

I only hope someone took my advice and invested a little in oil, gas, heck even agriculture since that is dependant on fossil fuels also....

[spenser1058]

Some background on the CSX project, its politics and what happened behind the scenesfrom the Lakeland Ledger:

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080416/.../804160404/1039