Manchester Development

[I miss RVA]

Interesting. Do you know offhand, how many units there are? And how long did they take to sell?

One pushback to something you mentioned earlier - this building provides the same structural density as Papa's originally-proposed Box 2. Not even close. This building is alternating 3 and 4 stories, whereas the Box was slated to be 7 stories - a much bigger building that definitely would have had a much greater presence than what's now proposed.

My bigger issue isn't even so much the "look" - it's going from a  potential minimum of 167 people living in that block to MAYBE as many as 80 - and more likely a LOT closer to 40. And the other pragmatic facts regarding RVA housing and how the lack thereof -- as has been reported and discussed on these forums -- negatively impacts economic growth. Recall one developer mentioning (regarding the lack of developable lots) - that folks talk about what potentially hampers RVA growth as being a "workforce issue" -- in that the relative "lack" of the kind of workforce (in terms of, presumably age, education, expertise, etc.) that companies that might relocate here are looking for. The one developer in particular indicated that this not the primary problem - because the more significant - underlying - issue is the relative lack of housing. The developer said - (paraphrasing) "the workforce issue is the (shortage of) housing issue" And all the grandest plans that Greater Richmond Partnership might have could VERY easily be torpedoed by the continuing housing shortage.

Again - don't get me wrong -- I DO support having home ownership in the mix. But what I see as problematic is while these half-a-million dollar condos could attract, say, empty nesters/older couples or older singletons - the trade off of 160-170 apartments that younger professionals would be drawn to (and yes, higher rents ARE a problem right now) for 40 units with a very narrow audience-- to me -- isn't a good tradeoff. At least not right now. Young professionals who might move to RVA to snag jobs offered by expanding or relocating companies, or young professionals who might stay in RVA after graduating from any of the region's four 4-year universities aren't looking for $500K condos. They're looking for apartments. Companies are looking for a fresh and ready workforce. The young people who likely would constitute that workforce are looking for apartments. This is part of how other cities are growing so fast (not all of it, but a significant part of it). If we don't have enough apartments for the younger workforce, and that cuts into the potential workforce who might move here, what does that do to companies that are looking at, say, Richmond or Nashville or Raleigh as a potential relocation destination?

Admittedly, I'm looking at this from the 50,000-foot level - more like an urban planner. But everything is a domino effect. 

While we're at it, let's talk about the rent issue -- the LACK of housing stock is directly driving up rents. Bruce himself has said again and again - the surest way to not just level off rents but to bring them down - BUILD MORE APARTMENTS!!! LOTS AND LOTS OF APARTMENTS!!! Trading in 167 apartments for 40 condos does NOTHING to contribute toward knocking down rents. Building half-a-million-dollar condos does nothing to cut into the rent problem.

We've talked long and loud about attracting a grocer to Manchester. Beefing up Manchester's population as quickly as possible is what will bring a grocer - not maybe 40 couples living in expensive condos. Those folks living in those condos probably will have absolutely NO qualms about driving to WHEREVER to get their food. Sure - they'll bring a higher income level to the neighborhood - but that lifts the neighborhood only so much. It works in places like NOVA because you have significant income DENSITY simply because it's not unreasonable to get several large double-digit story condo buildings in a given area with, say, 200 or 250 units (or more) each. That's not happening anytime soon -- if ever -- in Richmond. So a handful of 200-unit condos in NOVA will bring a tremendous amount of income density to where they're located, making it ripe for a bunch of grocers (among other retailers) to come in and compete for all those dollars.

That's not gonna happen in Manchester.

I'm not opposed to what Tom Papa is doing. I like the project and I'm hopeful it might help move the needle on getting his South Falls III condo tower (11 stories) rolling on the Manchester riverfront. I'm just pointing out that for all of the cheerleading I'm hearing about how having condos is like the second-coming of the wheel (to the point that it's almost better than having apartments), that it comes with the cost of leaving a LOT of problems unsolved.

I definitely good with some home ownership development entering into the mix. My point is that it should be PART of the mix. It should not BE the mix. 

Edited March 4 by I miss RVA

[HRVA]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

The townhomes across from Valero on Semmes sold very quickly.  They were the same price, maybe more.  

I am more familiar with the market in Hampton Roads but I was surprised the projected numbers weren’t higher. Here’s the sold prices from Zillow for the project you mentioned. Seems like they’ll easily be in the range from the article. 

[I miss RVA]

30 minutes ago, HRVA said:

I am more familiar with the market in Hampton Roads but I was surprised the projected numbers weren’t higher. Here’s the sold prices from Zillow for the project you mentioned. Seems like they’ll easily be in the range from the article. 

Wow - some GREAT research, @HRVA!! Thanks SO much for doing the deeper dive on this.

If you've hung out in our community enough, you'll certainly know the importance of what's coming next: For your outstanding legwork and good, solid data, you have earned your first-ever OFFICIAL RVA/UP Silver Port-a-Potty award/trophy (originally known as the RVA/UP "YOU DA MAN" award). It's highly coveted. Very prestigious. The trophy is hand polished and is an outstanding addition to any home. It's given to community members who go the extra mile to grab project-site pictures (often on request, sometimes on short notice) or who do exceptional work (such as you've done) to get good, solid data to add to the discussion of a topic, etc.

A heartfelt Mazal Tov to you on grabbing your first-ever award! You've more than earned it. Well done!

Edited March 1 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

Manchester Alliance Meeting:  For those who can go in person or watch a streaming of the meeting on Pie night (3-14), this Thursday evening!  Here’s the agenda and a link to watch (scroll to the bottom):

https://southrichmondnews.com/2024/03/11/manchester-alliance-meets-thursday-at-cafe-zeta/

Edited March 11 by eandslee

[whw53]

The SUP for the 1401 Hull St project passed tonight finally! 5 of us went out to speak and got drinks afterward - had a blast! This beauty is coming to Hull St peoples. 

 

[I miss RVA]

53 minutes ago, whw53 said:

The SUP for the 1401 Hull St project passed tonight finally! 5 of us went out to speak and got drinks afterward - had a blast! This beauty is coming to Hull St peoples. 

 

WELL DONE!!! THAT's how it's done! All five of you got up and spoke in favor of the project?

How bad was the NIMBY pushback at the Council meeting? Was it passed on the consent docket or did it come up for an individual vote? If so - what was the tally?

Edited March 26 by I miss RVA

[georgeglass]

1 hour ago, whw53 said:

The SUP for the 1401 Hull St project passed tonight finally! 5 of us went out to speak and got drinks afterward - had a blast! This beauty is coming to Hull St peoples. 

 

Thank you guys for turning up and speaking in support!! Awesome!!

[I miss RVA]

13 hours ago, whw53 said:

The SUP for the 1401 Hull St project passed tonight finally! 5 of us went out to speak and got drinks afterward - had a blast! This beauty is coming to Hull St peoples. 

 

Here's @RVABizSenseMike's reporting on the Council vote. @whw53 - the five of you who went and spoke got some ink in the RBS article. Check it out!

About 10 people spoke against the development at Monday’s council meeting, with about half as many speaking in favor. Opponents cited concerns of gentrification and long-time residents being forced out of the neighborhood as a result of the development. Those in favor said it would bring much-needed housing to the city and that the development is in line with the city’s master plan.

Well done, my friend. Humble thanks for going and speaking in favor. No doubt, the support helped tip the scales in favor of getting this new building app

ALSO - interesting footnote to everything: our dear friend Bruce dropped an interesting dime in the comments section to this story. Check it out:

Bruce Milam

I’m glad this is going forward and more new Manchester construction is taking hold. Also newsworthy is Berkadia’s listing for sale of the Legends property on West 7th Street.

All I can say is - WOW... Legends is looking to sell the property. Maybe if the economic climate improves we could see something of considerable size (and hopefully height) rise there as well at some point.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/03/26/after-deferment-council-greenlights-60-unit-hull-street-apartment-project/

[whw53]

The ordinance stayed on the consent agenda which was a good sign. The last 2 meetings saw itnbunped to a regular agenda item.

 

Still, yes 10 or more ppl got up to protest this development. A combination of the Richmond Tenants Union and the latter a group called 'preservation and anti Displacement Blackwell' or something similar. Pretty degrowth lefty in both cases- former group seemed like VCU students maybe- either way- I don't think these types really care for any sort of private sector development or don't understand the economic case for more development.They didn't have a substancial counterpoint - mostly NIMBY wish wash across a variety of themes.

One individual associated this development with supporting Israel and how protecting Blackwell from development is solidarity with Gaza. Insane - like mental. 

 

 

Edited March 26 by whw53

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, whw53 said:

The ordinance stayed on the consent agenda which was a good sign. The last 2 meetings saw itnbunped to a regular agenda item.

 

Still, yes 10 or more ppl got up to protest this development. A combination of the Richmond Tenants Union and the latter a group called 'preservation and anti Displacement Blackwell' or something similar. Pretty degrowth lefty in both cases- former group seemed like VCU students maybe- either way- I don't think these types really care for any sort of private sector development or don't understand the economic case for more development.They didn't have a substancial counterpoint - mostly NIMBY wish wash across a variety of themes.

One individual associated this development with supporting Israel and how protecting Blackwell from development is solidarity with Gaza. Insane - like mental. 

 

 

Wow... I have no words... other than, no wonder City Council (obviously) didn't take them seriously. (I mean, who would?)

Lordy...

[wrldcoupe4]

Legend Brewing site has hit the market  

[Flood Zone]

9 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

City Council (obviously) didn't take them seriously.

I don't do politics online (or in-person), but as a general matter I don't think anyone should trust any college kid's position on any policy issue, or at least the form of protest, no matter the side said college kid takes. It's just safer that way.

(Example: When I was in school up in DC a long time ago, the school announced a tuition hike midyear. This was a time of relative peace and prosperity, so the activists at school really had to reach to find causes. And tuition hikes are hardly ever popular, so it was a pretty good match. But the form of protest? They boycotted the food court in the student center building. This food court was obviously on the school dining plan, which of course is pre-paid, so all this boycott did was deprive themselves of food their parents already paid for and give the overworked employees a much easier day. I doubt anyone was thinking of that latter point, but I suppose to that extent they were right for the wrong reason....)

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, Flood Zone said:

1.) I don't do politics online (or in-person),

2.) but as a general matter I don't think anyone should trust any college kid's position on any policy issue, or at least the form of protest, no matter the side said college kid takes. It's just safer that way.

2.) (Example: When I was in school up in DC a long time ago, the school announced a tuition hike midyear. This was a time of relative peace and prosperity, so the activists at school really had to reach to find causes. And tuition hikes are hardly ever popular, so it was a pretty good match. But the form of protest? They boycotted the food court in the student center building. This food court was obviously on the school dining plan, which of course is pre-paid, so all this boycott did was deprive themselves of food their parents already paid for and give the overworked employees a much easier day. I doubt anyone was thinking of that latter point, but I suppose to that extent they were right for the wrong reason....)

Well said, @Flood Zone.   As always, a couple of brief thoughts:

1.) % !!!!!!!!  Same here, brother! 

2.) Much safer. I'm sure we all had our "way out there" viewpoints when we were 18 and 19 years old.

3.) I had my own form of occasional "protest" of the VCU's cafeteria's "food" offerings when I was in undergrad in the early-mid '80s (specifically in my freshman year)... and since this is a family show, I won't elaborate any further except to say Pepto Bismol and Kaopectate were required to maintain some semblance of order. . In fairness, they didn't screw up cold cereal too badly - I'll give 'em that.

Edited March 27 by I miss RVA

[123fakestreet]

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/03/28/legend-brewing-puts-manchester-property-up-for-sale/

 

Legend closing and selling property. Before the building they forced to be modified even gets built. Screw these guys, seriously.

[eandslee]

2 hours ago, 123fakestreet said:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/03/28/legend-brewing-puts-manchester-property-up-for-sale/

 

Legend closing and selling property. Before the building they forced to be modified even gets built. Screw these guys, seriously.

Those were my thoughts EXACTLY!  This guy created a big stink over the Avery Hall development only to sell anyway - what a complete goober!  I hope Avery Hall now modifies its design so as not to accommodate for Legend and their baffoonery!

Edited March 28 by eandslee

[ancientcarpenter]

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

Those were my thoughts EXACTLY!  This guy out up a big stink over the Avery Hall development only to sell anyway - what a complete goober!  I hope Avery Hall now modifies its design so as not to accommodate for Legend and their baffoonery!

That would be great - force whoever is buying to either build extremely high for a view. And if no buyers, then maybe owner needs to lower their price as it is not "river and city view" property any longer. 

 

Smart business move but to weaponize "the people of Manchester need their historic buildings and views preserved" was completely disingenuous. He doesn't care...morals and honor usually don't pay for cushy retirements. Can't blame him - that's capitalism and natural human selfishness at work - but I bet the people that stood behind him and fought to "protect small business / Legends" feel a bit silly now. 

Edited March 28 by ancientcarpenter

[Shakman]

2 hours ago, eandslee said:

Those were my thoughts EXACTLY!  This guy out up a big stink over the Avery Hall development only to sell anyway - what a complete goober!  I hope Avery Hall now modifies its design so as not to accommodate for Legend and their baffoonery!

I agree.  What a waste of time for the community and fellow Richmonders.  The developer of Avery Hall should buy this land, raised the structure and build a dog park so dogs can crap on the property.   

Edited March 28 by Shakman

[I miss RVA]

@RVABizSenseMike dropped a couple of very encouraging dimes in the Legend's article regarding big Manchester projects sitting in the pipeline:

Re: the 263-unit apartment building planned for the Thurston's Springs site south of Legend's:

The Beach Co., the South Carolina-based developer that built the Eddy on the James apartment building southwest of Legend, is also behind the development that’s planned to replace the Thurston Spring Services facility at 326 W. Seventh St.

Beach Co. Development Manager Tim Cotter said the hope is to begin construction on the six-story development in late 2024 or early 2025. Demolition may begin much sooner. 

And even better - regarding one of the two big home-run projects, the Avery Hall towers:

Avery Hall Investments, the Brooklyn-based firm that’s working on the twin-tower development that’s planned for the land between Legend and the river, is finalizing its development’s design. Founding principal Brian Ezra said the company is aiming to begin construction within a year.

This is good news all the way around. While development in Manchester has temporarily ground to a halt, it does indeed appear that things are gearing up to take off rather explosively again in the relatively near future. Music to my ears! And that means we'll see even more cranes popping up in the (hopefully) near future.

Edited March 28 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

On 3/26/2024 at 10:48 AM, I miss RVA said:

Here's @RVABizSenseMike's reporting on the Council vote. @whw53 - the five of you who went and spoke got some ink in the RBS article. Check it out!

About 10 people spoke against the development at Monday’s council meeting, with about half as many speaking in favor. Opponents cited concerns of gentrification and long-time residents being forced out of the neighborhood as a result of the development. Those in favor said it would bring much-needed housing to the city and that the development is in line with the city’s master plan.

Well done, my friend. Humble thanks for going and speaking in favor. No doubt, the support helped tip the scales in favor of getting this new building app

ALSO - interesting footnote to everything: our dear friend Bruce dropped an interesting dime in the comments section to this story. Check it out:

Bruce Milam

I’m glad this is going forward and more new Manchester construction is taking hold. Also newsworthy is Berkadia’s listing for sale of the Legends property on West 7th Street.

All I can say is - WOW... Legends is looking to sell the property. Maybe if the economic climate improves we could see something of considerable size (and hopefully height) rise there as well at some point.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/03/26/after-deferment-council-greenlights-60-unit-hull-street-apartment-project/

FOLLOW-UP:

WRIC-TV8 News had a pretty in-depth story about the new apartment building slated to rise at 14th and Hull. I'm impressed that it wasn't just cursory coverage. They did a decent job with it. Definitely worth taking a few minutes to watch the video.

From WRIC-TV8 News.

Richmond residents share thoughts on 60-unit apartment building coming to Hull Street | WRIC ABC 8News

[whw53]

Hey that's me! I'm the nervous one who talked fast and stuttered on about my support of it. 

[I miss RVA]

3 minutes ago, whw53 said:

Hey that's me! I'm the nervous one who talked fast and stuttered on about my support of it. 

Wait - WHAT?? (Channeling my best Anna from Frozen)  You were the guy who was interviewed on Hull Street?

VERY cool!!  

[eandslee]

3 hours ago, whw53 said:

Hey that's me! I'm the nervous one who talked fast and stuttered on about my support of it. 

Awesome!  You did a good job!  The other guy seemed to just be a NIMBY…scared of any change.  Nice to be able also put a name with a face!

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, eandslee said:

Awesome!  You did a good job!  The other guy seemed to just be a NIMBY…scared of any change.  Nice to be able also put a name with a face!

Fully agreed. @whw53 - you knocked it out of the park. Well done, my friend!

[I miss RVA]

8 hours ago, whw53 said:

Hey that's me! I'm the nervous one who talked fast and stuttered on about my support of it. 

The more I think about it, I think your efforts -- both in going to City Council and speaking up in favor of this project - AND - in appearing on and being interviewed by TV8 News (and speaking on TV in favor of not just this project but in favor of Manchester's growth in general) - is more than worthy of some OFFICIAL RVA/UP Silver Hardware. You definitely went well above and beyond the call of duty and went the extra mile on this one. Well done. Mazal Tov!

[Shakman]

23 hours ago, whw53 said:

Hey that's me! I'm the nervous one who talked fast and stuttered on about my support of it. 

Nice!  A face to match.  You did a great job!