Hampton Roads Military Developments

[rusthebuss]

Well I have mixed emotions about the whole idea of the base closing. I do want the city to be more than a military town and tourist resort but at the same time a billion dollar whole is pretty hard to fill. But as you state we would rather have it either stay in its entirety or not at all. I agree wholeheartedly on that point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Navy still wants to keep the land for something and i've heard it multiple times. I hope they don't pull everything there but keep the base for something else or just to hold on the land! I have a feeling that they are just going to hold on the land but! the city can develop around it with no worries!

[urbanvb]

If they want to reduce the base but allow development that would work I would think. Of course I would rather have that land for other purposes if they are going to even partially leave but then there are concerns on just who owns or controls the land, the city or the government.

[bobliocatt]

I agree with Bush. $200 million is a lot to put down for half a base. The all or nothing approach is better in the long run for both cities.

[rusthebuss]

If they want to reduce the base but allow development that would work I would think. Of course I would rather have that land for other purposes if they are going to even partially leave but then there are concerns on just who owns or controls the land, the city or the government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I think the state owns the land if I'm not mistaken.

[hoobo]

Hmm...Now the argument in the Va. Beach forum is starting to come into context. I just saw the comments there and was like, wtf? Everybodies opinion is welcome and since the original intent of this forum was to promote development as a region then there is nothing wrong with one person from one part of this region commenting on development in another. It's just the same as Richmond people commenting in here and vice versa. That you both have different opinions is evident, I think it's the approach to this difference which is causing issues. Hoobo, I hold much the same opinion as Rus in that I believe the beach may be making and unwise purchase in buying this property, especially in light of it not being in one of the identified target zones. Rus, I think we both know you can be a bit intense at times  , I think sometimes your tone can come off as an attack which i've learned after the now eons of dealing with you that that is not necessarily the case.  .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I didn't take it as an attack on me, I was just wondering from where the anger was coming towards the VB council. Rus, I'm starting to see that you're a really passionate guy. I just didn't understand how the VB council could be beotchs when they haven't condemned any properties. They don't even have that right. All they did was purchase a parcel for twice its appraised value. The owner didn't fight them in court when the development was already approved by VB. VB has gone after owners in Burton Station, a historically black neighborhood, in order to expand Airport Industrial Park. They went to court over the Neptune Restaurant to clear the last hurdle to get the 31st St Hilton garage built. Homeowners along Independence were bought out to widen that street. Property owners in Beechwood and Reedtown, two more historically black neighborhoods, were condemned after the city called them blighted. VB has gone after a couple poor Seatack neighborhoods to build schools and help commercial interests. Finally, a property owner in TC was forced out of his home so that place could get constructed. VB has a history of taking land even though it doesn't have the authority. The methods used should get them the label of beotch. However, buying land from a willing seller to keep options on Oceana open should not earn them the beotch label. If and when VB starts suing property owners to take their property or starts condemning the land, if given the right, then the city leaders can be called beotchs. Right now is bit premature.

[hoobo]

Gee, why doesn't he just come to VB and take it huh??  No wonder I hate politics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Politics or corporate raiding?

I believe the Navy wants to keep Oceana for Special Ops training, which is the reason it was originally kept open. What I don't get is why Fentress can't be used for that purpose or even Langley?

[urbanvb]

I believe the owner of the house in TC was paid like $450k which really if he had held out I think he could have gotten considerably more.

[Viper]

You know what would a politically underhanded but very slick move? Having the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce sending real estate brochures to the owners of all the houses that VB condemns.

[rusthebuss]

You know what would a politically underhanded but very slick move?  Having the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce sending real estate brochures to the owners of all the houses that VB condemns.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boy you really are trying to piss us off aren't you! What point are you trying to make? You just trying to start crap with us. Make a comment like that in the Jax thread not ours

[monsoon]

Boy you really are trying to piss us off aren't you! What point are you trying to make? You just trying to start crap with us. Make a comment like that in the Jax thread not ours

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't make comments like this as it only serves to piss people off even it if was some half hearted attempt to be sarcastic.

[hoobo]

You know what would a politically underhanded but very slick move?  Having the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce sending real estate brochures to the owners of all the houses that VB condemns.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What purpose would that serve? If they are forced form their homes (and that's a big if since VB doesn't have condemnation power and has not made a decision concerning Oceana) they still have ties to and jobs in the HR area. They may not stay in VB, but Cpeake and Suffolk can handle the influx of new residents. Why would someone with a family just pack up and leave for another state entirely? Jax may get a couple biters, but the politically and media backlash would more than offset any gains Jax makes in population. What you're saying makes sense if BRAC moves the jets. Since service jobs associated with the base would also go. If VB complies, that won't happen for some time, though.

[Viper]

Perhaps a few smilies would have given away the joke. I didn't make it in the Jax board because I would have had a bunch of replies regarding members emailing city hall to do such.

[monsoon]

Perhaps a few smilies would have given away the joke.  I didn't make it in the Jax board because I would have had a bunch of replies regarding members emailing city hall to do such.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you should take more consideration of your thoughts before you submit them here as a post.

[hoobo]

Bush signs off on BRAC report

"The city of Virginia Beach estimates there are 1,800 homes with an assessed value of $268 million in the high-risk zones, along with commercial properties estimated to be worth an additional $308 million."

We've been focusing on the homes and how much they may end up costing to take. We forgot all about the businesses. So the starting figure is already $575 million without court costs and readjustments. Also not taken into account is appreciation. If property values increase faster than inflation, I wonder if the eventual cost could surpass $1 billion.

Now, it's up to Congress which will likely pass the BRAC recommendations. After that, I expect VB will commission a study to determine the true value of condemnation, the value of the base, and the potential base reuse. If the Navy wants to realign the base instead of closing it if the jets are moved, then watch for some negotiating before VB decides on a position.

[Viper]

Get this, Fl and Jax won't offer up any money to help the Navy at Cecil unless Cecil gets Oceana in its entirety.

The BRAC submitted full closure to the Pres and he signed off on it. At this point, realignment instead of closure will not happen. For congress to alter it, they would have to reject the entire BRAC submission (meaning every base closure and realignment) and start all over again.

[hoobo]

Get this, Fl and Jax won't offer up any money to help the Navy at Cecil unless Cecil gets Oceana in its entirety.

The BRAC submitted full closure to the Pres and he signed off on it.  At this point, realignment instead of closure will not happen.  For congress to alter it, they would have to reject the entire BRAC submission (meaning every base closure and realignment) and start all over again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the realignment we're talking about involves losing all the jets but having the Navy retain possession of the base for other training, maybe that special ops the Navy keeps talking about.

[vdogg]

I think the realignment we're talking about involves losing all the jets but having the Navy retain possession of the base for other training, maybe that special ops the Navy keeps talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly, and it has already been stated that that portion would not be leaving. For some reason this area is key to that operation and the Navy has not backed down on that point.

[bobliocatt]

Well if that's the case, Va Beach has nothing to worry about, because Florida/Jax wants all of its current operations (Jets and everything else) or nothing at all.

[hoobo]

As I said before, VB will study its options before deciding what to do about Oceana. It had to purchase that condo property, which it did with no court fight from the owner/developer, to show good faith towards the Navy and BRAC recommendations.

Meeting to Study Oceana Impacts and Options

"Last week, the state and Virginia Beach retained the law firm of Hunton & Williams, based in Richmond, to explore a potential legal challenge of the BRAC ruling.

The Virginia Beach City Council also has committed $50,000 for an economic analysis to determine the costs of accepting or rejecting the BRAC ultimatum. The city is reviewing bids from two consulting firms and hopes to have the analysis done by Nov. 1.

Stolle said the working group needs the results of the legal and economic reviews before recommending how to respond to BRAC.

Virginia Beach, Chesapeake and the state have until March 2006 to comply with BRAC

[hoobo]

Well if that's the case, Va Beach has nothing to worry about, because Florida/Jax wants all of its current operations (Jets and everything else) or nothing at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean Florida will pass up a $600 million/year business because it won't get a small special ops training unit?

[Viper]

No, they won't front any money to get them here unless they get the whole thing.

You have to remember, that location is already generating lots of revenue so for us to relocate those businesses, we need a fully valid reason to spend that money to do so.

If the Navy is willing to allow some to stay on base, such as Boeing since that operation at Cecil ironically fixes Super Hornets, then we'll take the base in any form they give it.

The BRAC request, by the way, has always listed Oceana under the closure list and not the realignment list. Warner's comment is still the only mention I've read of realignment and not a full closure.

[rusthebuss]

No, they won't front any money to get them here unless they get the whole thing.

You have to remember, that location is already generating lots of revenue so for us to relocate those businesses, we need a fully valid reason to spend that money to do so.

If the Navy is willing to allow some to stay on base, such as Boeing since that operation at Cecil ironically fixes Super Hornets, then we'll take the base in any form they give it.

The BRAC request, by the way, has always listed Oceana under the closure list and not the realignment list.  Warner's comment is still the only mention I've read of realignment and not a full closure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The SEALs are not going down there to JAX.

[Viper]

Other than Warner, what do you have to back that?

I don't doubt, however, that the Seals would probably go to Norfolk or maybe even Langley (I know a few shared operations bases). It doesn't seem to be water they require so what makes Oceana the only base they can use for Seals?

[rusthebuss]

Other than Warner, what do you have to back that?

I don't doubt, however, that the Seals would probably go to Norfolk or maybe even Langley (I know a few shared operations bases).

[Viper]

Then why bring them up???