Wachovia South Tryon Projects

[AuLukey]

46 stories. 746 feet.

Let...it....go.

I'll gladly eat 15 plates of crow if I'm wrong.

I'll take that bet. If it is anything except 746 feet, 15 plates . If it turns out to be that exact amount, I'll eat it.

[atlrvr]

46 stories. 746 feet.

Let...it....go.

I'll gladly eat 15 plates of crow if I'm wrong. However, trust me on the fact that Wachovia has more things to worry about than hiding a new tallest. It's not like BofA's going to plop a spire on Coporate just to beat anything Wachovia puts up.

Thank you! Finally some sanity returns.....

[queensguy06]

LOL...You know what I think? I think Wachovia is purposely not releasing anything on the tower because they are having too much fun reading these boards! I love how some people add 2 and 2 and get 5 - "Well, since we haven't heard anything on the tower yet, it MUST be because they are going to make it 3000ft. tall." Oh how the UPers slay me.

[dubone]

Let's talk about the fact that even in its announced (and permitted) proportions, this is one of the largest buildings in the county for jobs, will be the first LEED office building in the Carolinas, will be the second tallest building in the state, brings to Charlotte some significantly high-prestige trading jobs, and will fund most of the new arts project. Why do we care if this is 1000' (okay, it would be nice, but still)? It will already do far more than we could possibly expect during the middle of a war, a stagnant economy, and a piss-poor office space market.

[upstate49er]

Let's talk about the fact that even in its announced (and permitted) proportions, this is one of the largest buildings in the county for jobs, will be the first LEED office building in the Carolinas, will be the second tallest building in the state, brings to Charlotte some significantly high-prestige trading jobs, and will fund most of the new arts project. Why do we care if this is 1000' (okay, it would be nice, but still)? It will already do far more than we could possibly expect during the middle of a war, a stagnant economy, and a piss-poor office space market.

This building will be the largest uptown with over 1.3 million sq/ft, the first LEED building uptown, and the most expensive building uptown. It's a crying shame that it won't be the tallest uptown.

[dubone]

Do you know what they say about people who like tall buildings and fast cars?

Yeah, me neither.

[Seabreeze]

Do you know what they say about people who like tall buildings and fast cars?

Yeah, me neither.

[atlrvr]

In all honestly, why does it matter if this is a new tallest or not. It would look rather silly sitting out by itself down south as a new tallest, though I'm sure the area would fill in ....much more importantly, this buildings is the sole catalyst of 4 cultural museums that would not exist without it, it will be the largest (by square feet) building downtown, employing over 4,000 new EXTREMELY high paying jobs. What more do you people want? This is easily this best thing to happen to Charlotte since BofA corporate center.

It solidies the corporate HQ of the #4 largest bank in the county.

It provides Charlotte with a genuine fine arts museum.

It keeps a $40M art collection from going elsewhere.

It allows Charlotte preforming arts to be expanded.

It allows the AACC to become a top 5 destination for African American culture in the USA.

I'll be honest, the amount of attention paid to the height of Wachovia's new building is pissing me off when this arbitrary number eclipses the far more significant contribution the project will bestowe of the city.

This project will be the sole reason that Charlotte is able to maintain its status quo among peers...the rest of the city's attributes is what allows it to excel.

[uptownliving]

This new Wachovia building and all the cultural facilites are going to be great...what really upsets me though is that directly across the street from this 47 story tower is going to be a large surface lot. Typical Charlotte.

[UrbanCharlotte]

I dont think itll last long.

[Dale]

You people are funny. 1100 feet tall? I hope you are right, but there is just no reason to think they will go that tall. Wachovia doesn't care about height as much as people on this board. They care about banking. In as much as they care about banking, they care about the amount of space they need in which to put bankers. It seems to me they have said they have crunched their numbers and need x amount of space over the coming years. They then have added a little bit more space in the tower to make so viable rental space to other organizations based on market needs.

But okay, since there really isn't anything concrete to refute it, let's just pretend it will be 1100'. I'm sure we'll all be just as happy with the 46 story building when they follow ncsc's dreams.

Hasn't Wachovia ever heard of 'multi-tasking' ?

I want 1,100 ft. and solid assets management.

[Miesian Corners]

Do you know what they say about people who like tall buildings and fast cars?

I always heard they had small feet and hands.

[monsoon]

I don't know if anyone noticed but in the latest Mint rendering it shows the base of the office tower...and it correlates with the rendering of the tower that Norm posted.

That is a very good point. If an UrbanPlaneteer is able to take a photo of their rendering and force an official response out of them because it was posted on this site, then, one can only assume either of the following:

1. The people keeping it secret are operating at their level of incompetence and that must be the real rendering. i.e. they couldn't keep from getting onto UrbanPlanet, and they didn't think to keep it out of the Mint drawings. or.....

2. They are some of the smartest marketeers in North Carolina and have pulled off a perfect ruse that involves UrbanPlanet, The Charlotte Observer, and a number of other organizations though by leaking that rendering to someone they just knew would take a phone camera photo of it then post it on UP for the Observer to see. Then in stroke of genius also put that rendering in the mint drawings. i.e. They have everyone thinking it is a 43 story tower and they are secretly working on a 100 story monster that nobody has seen yet.

Now, which do you folks think it might be?

[rockhilljames]

In all honestly, why does it matter if this is a new tallest or not. It would look rather silly sitting out by itself down south as a new tallest, though I'm sure the area would fill in ....much more importantly, this buildings is the sole catalyst of 4 cultural museums that would not exist without it, it will be the largest (by square feet) building downtown, employing over 4,000 new EXTREMELY high paying jobs. What more do you people want? This is easily this best thing to happen to Charlotte since BofA corporate center.

It solidies the corporate HQ of the #4 largest bank in the county.

It provides Charlotte with a genuine fine arts museum.

It keeps a $40M art collection from going elsewhere.

It allows Charlotte preforming arts to be expanded.

It allows the AACC to become a top 5 destination for African American culture in the USA.

I'll be honest, the amount of attention paid to the height of Wachovia's new building is pissing me off when this arbitrary number eclipses the far more significant contribution the project will bestowe of the city.

This project will be the sole reason that Charlotte is able to maintain its status quo among peers...the rest of the city's attributes is what allows it to excel.

Post of the year.

[orulz]

I agree with rockhilljames.

Well said, atlrvr.

[schmopperX]

Taking all that into account, it wouldn't hurt if the building is 1100' would it.

Just because some of us "wish" for it to be taller, doesn't mean we don't appreciate the rest of it.

Easy now, no reason to get "pissed off", step away from the ledge, some of us are just having fun dreaming. We're excited, is that so wrong?

[atlrvr]

It's fine to dream, but since the height has been revealed as fact, it seems half the posts on this thread have been trying to refute the truth based on unfounded speculation.

I try not to take posting on UP too seriously, but I do think its an excellent forum that provides lots of facts and insights and is read by an ever-increasing portion of developers, news media, and general population. It diminishes the credibility of the info here everytime someon posts something like. "Since the renderings weren't released the week they were promised, it must mean that the artist has had troubled drawing 30 extra stories in time".

Like I said, this project is of huge importance to the city for so many reasons beyond skyline aesthetics and it would be nice to click on the thread and not see the three most recent posts discussing something separate from reality.

Ok.....end of rant.....and now I'm stepping back from the ledge.

[AuLukey]

wow, atlrvr. I didn't know you were so into this. I guess I'll stop playin around if it is makin you mad. You are right though, the height of this project is irrelevant in comparison to the overall spectrum of this project. The arts project and the influx of high paying jobs mean more to this city than any skyscraper could.

Oh, and as to the 'leaked' rendering, were there not multiple renderings for Four First Union? ...just sayin.

[monsoon]

Oh, and as to the 'leaked' rendering, were there not multiple renderings for Four First Union? ...just sayin.

In both cases that were posted there, the tower would have been 80 stories with a large crown and I don't think there was an attempt to somehow pretend it would be shorter. For a short while, some First Union literature and advertizing had a rendering of a supertall tower that many presumed would be this new tower. If I remember correctly, it was again different from the two renderings posted here. In any case, the project failed to materialize. The bank changed its mind when the economy worsened. (though it never got as bad as now)

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

The bank changed its mind when the economy worsened. (though it never got as bad as now)

You fail to realize we are not in a bad economy. It is slow but consistant growth. However the U.S. is known for slow and steady growth, nearly consistant for 200 years. No other country can say that. You obviously don't know what your talking about in terms of the economy and our current growth patterns.

[monsoon]

The only significant growth in the economy is being spurred on by excessive deficit government spending and the real estate market that is popping all over the country. The second one is bad for banking. (possibly the first one is too.) By all other measures the United States economy is in really bad shape. If the Chinese were not buying up all of the debt we would already be in a pretty bad recession.

[AuLukey]

If the Chinese were not buying up all of the debt we would already be in a pretty bad recession.

Key word: "if." Although I do have to agree with your point in general, isn't nearly the entire world's economy indebted to the US? Why doesn't the US collect on that? Because we don't have to: as long as there isn't a sudden shift in power towards China or any other nation, there shouldn't be a need to. I can't see China and the US becoming complete diplomatic and military adversaries, so we should have nothing to worry about long term. Of course there are always going to be recessions. But look at the Dow, it is nearly back up to the point it was 6 or 7 years ago at its summit. The NASDAQ was a spike that only happened because Americans thought that the internet was the best invention since water. That is really the only true indicator that the US hasn't recovered from "the recession." If indeed it is time for another, then so be it. I just hope WB builds this tower and all these jobs enter Charlotte before it happens. Whether the impending doom comes in 07 or later, it's going to happen yes, it does for all countries, it helps balance out this world. So far the US is the only country to completely rebound from each and every time. That is why it is in the position it has been in for the last decade or so.

[monsoon]

Key word: "if." Although I do have to agree with your point in general, isn't nearly the entire world's economy indebted to the US?

I am not aware that any country capiable of paying the USA that is in debt to us. We have a $8000 Billion National Debt now however that many countries have bought up. This is almost the entire GDP of the USA for a year. We owe that money to them. When they call in the notes, the US economy is going into the toilet. BTW, more than 1/3 of the entire national budget goes to pay just the interest on this debt.

[A2]

You fail to realize we are not in a bad economy. It is slow but consistant growth. However the U.S. is known for slow and steady growth, nearly consistant for 200 years. No other country can say that. You obviously don't know what your talking about in terms of the economy and our current growth patterns.

Hmmm the Roman empire comes to mind. It lasted MUCH longer than a couple of hundred years and it came to a screaching halt. I want get into Econ 101, but the economy is in pretty bad shape. The DOW is all but 30 companies. The housing market which has been responsible for the bulk of the gains in employment and fluffing up bank's ballance sheets is cratering.

This bubble could very well prove to be much more severe than any dotcom bubble ever thought abot being.

The fact is that printing money and expanding the supply of it to any Tom, Dick, or Harry to buy what they can't afford is a recipe for disaster. In the next three years 3 TRILLON dollars will be adjusted and most of those payments will come in a time where Interest Rates are double, triple and 5 times higher than where they were at.

The facts are that all of this money will have to come from somewhere. There will be an escalation on forclosures, bank failures, and potentially a SEVERE drop in GDP.

The reason for the BOOM over the last 5 years is because the FED made cheap money that found its way into Real Estate and all those artificially bloated home prices are crashing. Now the people who have ARM's actually OWE more than the House is worth. I guess that means the home being an ATM is gone Bye Bye.

This will result in a crash that I think everyone is discounting since many seem to think the the FED, or the Gov't will be able to avoid recession (or worse yet a depression).

The facts are that the time is fast approaching where the last thing we will be concerend with is how tall a skraper is, but rather how do we manage to get ourselves out of the mess we are in.

Fact: we can't.

The truth is that the US's largest export is DEBT.

We are a nation of consumption and an appetite for more more more.

The facts remain clear that we Our beloved country is in the hole well over 9 TRILLION BIG ONES!

(Now try and calculate the Interest on that IOU )

The fact is that the American consumer has never been more Tapped out. The credit cards are maxed and wages are flat while Inflation is running people's dollar straight into the ground!

We must remember that this country was founded on SOUND financial beliefs as well as being smart, good stewarts of money. This foundation is GONE. We are now the MOST indebted country in the world with many around the globe having a field day waiting on the inevidible crash that will certainly strike the evil empire known as the USofA. Don't get me wrong there are those who love and cherish our alliance, but there are many who would just assume blow us to smitherines.

The world is changing and the 200 years of growth has not come without problems and depressions. From the 1700's up to the Present day we have had our share of recessions and Depressions. In fact, in cycle terms we are so overdue for a protracted period of negative growth it is scary. Add onto the fact that the US is acting so blatantly ignorant about it and you have the making of what will proove to be the worst Economic Collapse since the Great Depression since the 30's.

Peace!

A2

(AussieLuke you know I love you man and have nothing against your statments. I am just speaking my mind. I am like this from time to time. Please be assured that I, like you, want nothing more than for our wonderful city to thrive and prosper. It will. But now we do have to face some financial demons. This is going to be tough. IMO we will enter a recession 2Q of 2007 and then plumet into a much more corrective period over the ensuing 4 years. However, if we are positive we will survice and flourish as the Phoenix out of the ashes. Perhaps a lot less arrogant as a Nation.)

[A2]

Ok, now about that Tower .....

A2