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Wachovia South Tryon Projects

Southend

By Southend
in Charlotte

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dubone Megalopolis

dubone

Posted
Posted

i'm glad that they aren't saving a site for duke... for one, they are obviously intent on using 400 s tryon for a while... but also, if they ever did need to expand into a new tower, hopefully they'll tear down their fugly fortress on stonewall.

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Mobuchu Burg

Mobuchu

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Is 35-40 stories like it says in the PDF still sound accurate? The footprint for the tower looks alot smaller now, except for the base(first 3 stories maybe). Because of the rectangle footprint in the original plan it appeard to be larger floors, but fewer. Now it looks to be a thinner square shape.

A2 has me on edge from his posts in the southern forum. I hope your right A2 and they come out with something closer to BOFA corp. As of now their looking at the 5th tallest after EpiCenter and the Vue are complete. Kinda weak considering Wachovia's presence in the city...

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dubone Megalopolis

dubone

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My guess is Wachovia is going to build something higher than 60 stories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:o

that would be quite a jump from 35-40, but i think you may be right... this is their best chance to regain prominence on the skyline. (if they built a tower roughly the same height as bofa corporate, it would still look taller because of topography, i think).

they are putting so many goodies into this project, it really does give the feeling that they are building their new HQ signature tower...

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atlrvr Metropolitan Area

atlrvr

Posted
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Is Wachovia's stock doing well enough to build tall for the sake of building tall? It seems like they have had kind of a bumpy performance as most analyst and investors are waiting to see what other kinds of M&A occur.

Building a trophy tower may put a sour taste in their mouth...and when the stock price falls, so does Market Cap, and I'm not sure that's what Wachovia would want with so many rumors flying around (like a merger with Wells Fargo). Ken Thompson seems a bit more methodical than Crutchfield in these dealings.......

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at 45 stories and to move the executive offices (and maybe a nice spire to push past Hearst), but I can't see them dropping an extra $50M for ego at such a crucial point in the company's soveriegnty.

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atlrvr Metropolitan Area

atlrvr

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^ But maybe they are planning to sell 1 Wachovia to an investor....that would negate everything I just said.

Though I just read that they are rasing their dividend and buying back 100M shares, would seem to me that they are trying to boost their stock price. I suppose we will find out soon enough.

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SmellyCat Burg

SmellyCat

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Is Wachovia's stock doing well enough to build tall for the sake of building tall?  It seems like they have had kind of a bumpy performance as most analyst and investors are waiting to see what other kinds of M&A occur.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Their stock hit a 6-year high of about 56 in February and has since settled in at around 50, but it's still at a pretty high historical trading range considering it was at 29 in late 2002.

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A2 Town

A2

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^ But maybe they are planning to sell 1 Wachovia to an investor....that would negate everything I just said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's hope so atlrvr. If I were an investor in center city real estate, 1 Wachovia would not be a bad purchace. With office space, residential towers, parks, and all other things potentially set to plop down in center city (ie NASCAR HofF), the space dtwn will begin to dry up. Hopefully we can rid ourselves of the moat of parking lots once and for all. With all that being said, maybe that incents one to invest as property values will go higher, thus insuring a nice profit. Ok, I know I am being an overly optomistic person, but Hell, I want a freggin 60+ story tower. :D

A2

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ilektronik Whistle-Stop

ilektronik

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here is a post from thread almost 2 years old to the day.. MB you were right on with the timeline estimate, just a bit off on location. still pretty freaky. Do you have a crystal ball or something?? lol

My first post here  :P

Well it is a very good rumor the spot currently occupied by the 12 story building will be the location of Wachovia's new highrise.  Possibly the highest in the SE when completed.  Don't expect any announcements until 2005 however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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atlrvr Metropolitan Area

atlrvr

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Because what if they can't?

Not to be argumentative (ok, maybe just a little), but I'm not sure there are many firms shopping Uptown right now that are chosing elsewhere because of the lack of space.

Would some firms likely move from other Uptown buildings to take the space in the newest and best? Sure, I bet some would as long as they had corresponding lease expirations and are not too closely reliant on BofA, but I don't think Wachovia can count on this.

Assuming that the site plan provided to Center City Partners is correct, I measured the propoptions against the actual block. This gave me a floor plate size of 24,000 sq. ft. I've heard the tower would be 900,000-1M sq. ft. so this would 38-42 stories if it is a box, and taller depending on where the set-backs occur.......I'm sticking to my 45 story number, but giving 50 a chance if they are trying to make a statement.

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dubone Megalopolis

dubone

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does anyone know the topography numbers... is the site at south tryon higher elevation about sea vs the tr&tr location of bofa corporate.... ? i know it isn't a big enough difference that 50 stories would come close... but it seems like it makes 1 Wachovia look like taller than it is...

EDIT: Scratch that... from polaris, i think it says trade and tryon is between 750' and 760' but tryon and 1st street is between 730' and 740', so if anything the wachovia site will look shorter.... i guess it is just an optical illusion from some angles that make the wachovia towers seem taller.

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dubone Megalopolis

dubone

Posted
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good analysis atlrvr... you're right, it does seem that all the numbers and announcements are putting this at 40-50 range....

in my thinking, though, it isn't going that much of a limb to tack on a speculative 10 stories 'for the helluvit'.... that is, unless they already tacked on a speculative 10-15 stories for the helluvit to get from 25-30 to 40-50, which may actually be the case.

building too much space does hurt bottom lines in the short term, but it also creates a condition where companies can be lured to downtown locations vs. building in the burbs.

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atlrvr Metropolitan Area

atlrvr

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I'm under the impression that they are already tacking on about 200,000 sq. ft. for the helluvit, which would be about 8 stories.....I could be wrong though, and I'm sure they would like to consolidate as much of the Uptown space as possible.

1st and Tryon is about 735' and Trade/Tryon is about 762'.....so you have about 27' difference.

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A2 Town

A2

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:D well i wouldn't mind a 50 storey building with a massive "structure" mounted on the roof to take it over 1000 ft and the new "tallest" in the south?  Sounds familiar anyone? :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would quiet a lot of posters knocking Charlotte in the Southern Forum. I think many think CLT has been topped out, so to speak, in terms of height w/ the current BofA HQ. I simply do not believe this to be true. In the years to come Charlotte will attract more firms and that will eventually promt more Spec development when CLT becomes a "player" in "that" market. With that being said, it does not matter if BofA or Wachovia decide to build north of 1000'. Then it will be in the hands of the REIT's, Developers, and Private Investors. I think Lady Celeste said it best on the Southern Forum. Developers + Demand = skyskrapers. Eventually this equation will birth an office tower at least the size of BofA's tower, if not much higher. This, of course, is my opinion, but it needs to be stressed that land along Tryon is being gobbled up quite quickly within the loop. One would have to assume that if a firm (including the banks) want to "make a statement" and do it on our Main Street then you have to go verticle, and verticle in a significant way. Otherwise you will be out to pasture off of Church or College. Most all of us know that Tryon is "where it's at". It is our Michigan Avenue or Peachetree. It is the address that defines where you are in the entire city. B)

A2

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atlrvr Metropolitan Area

atlrvr

Posted
Posted

I'd have to challenge that we will be getting new tallest from a non-financial institution.

There are NO buildings in the US built since the 1930s over 1,000' that aren't either the corporate HQ for a financial/insurance institution or at least the regional HQ for a national scale financial institution.

There is only ONE building in the US over 900' that doesn't meet this criteria which is 311 South Wacker in Chicago.

The only buildings ever built as such were the World Trade Centers.

There are some proposals out there that could change this, but all of them have a large residential portions to them.

That said.....for Charlotte to get a 1000' footer, it will be a bank.....or on the extreme outside change an office/residental/hotel combo but land prices/condo prices/hotel rates will have to go WAY up before that happens.

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