Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[ChessieCat]

^There is overcapacity right now among long-haul carriers.  Last month AA deferred its legacy USAir A350 order for a second time to "late 2020" which doesn't bode well for any upgrade of long-haul service at CLT from the A330-200, especially after the 333 is retired starting next year.  Granted I like AA's 332, especially in business class where you don't have to rub shoulders with anyone.

Two weeks ago Delta deferred its A350 order for another 2-3 years until 2021 at the earliest.  I wouldn't be surprised if both AA and DAL convert their A350 orders to A321ceo's which are now produced in Mobile, AL and are becoming the workhorses for both airlines.

The fact that Brazil is in such terrible economic shape combined with low oil prices is having a bullwhip effect, freeing up aircraft as destinations get cut and lessening the need for new aircraft when fuel efficiency isn't as big a factor as before.

Edited May 31, 2017 by ChessieCat

[LKN704]

I still personally believe that one of the two LHR flights will likely be upgauged to a 772.

[CLT704]

13 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

I still personally believe that one of the two LHR flights will likely be upgauged to a 772.

It would be an upgauge, the highest capacity AA 772 has 2 less seats than the 333s. It would pretty much be the same no of seats 

[xapostrophe]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

^There is overcapacity right now among long-haul carriers.  Last month AA deferred its legacy USAir A350 order for a second time to "late 2020" which doesn't bode well for any upgrade of long-haul service at CLT from the A330-200, especially after the 333 is retired starting next year.  Granted I like AA's 332, especially in business class where you don't have to rub shoulders with anyone.

Two weeks ago Delta deferred its A350 order for another 2-3 years until 2021 at the earliest.  I wouldn't be surprised if both AA and DAL convert their A350 orders to A321ceo's which are now produced in Mobile, AL and are becoming the workhorses for both airlines.

The fact that Brazil is in such terrible economic shape combined with low oil prices is having a bullwhip effect, freeing up aircraft as destinations get cut and lessening the need for new aircraft when fuel efficiency isn't as big a factor as before.

The 330-300s are no longer going to the desert.  They were extended...as the options for the 350s were deferred.  The consensus in the training dept is that the 350s will be converted to 330 neos before any other changes are made.   Why would you convert a widebody order to a narrowbody order?  I think AA still has 321 orders being delivered anyways, they could convert those to the neo if they really wanted to, but the engines on the neos seem to be having some reliability issues.

[ChessieCat]

38 minutes ago, xapostrophe said:

The 330-300s are no longer going to the desert.  They were extended...as the options for the 350s were deferred.  The consensus in the training dept is that the 350s will be converted to 330 neos before any other changes are made.   Why would you convert a widebody order to a narrowbody order?  I think AA still has 321 orders being delivered anyways, they could convert those to the neo if they really wanted to, but the engines on the neos seem to be having some reliability issues.

At the end of the day, airlines aren't buying planes but delivery slots.  These are swapped and sold all the time.  Airbus would happily convert its remaining A321ceo slots to firm orders instead of having to deal with the constant uncertainty of AA and DAL delaying delivery of the A350, especially if the total dollar value can be preserved for accounting purposes.

AA hasn't gone public with the A333 decision according to my google searches. Are you disclosing something confidential? No problem with that at UP, happens all the time  

[CLT704]

54 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

At the end of the day, airlines aren't buying planes but delivery slots.  These are swapped and sold all the time.  Airbus would happily convert its remaining A321ceo slots to firm orders instead of having to deal with the constant uncertainty of AA and DAL delaying delivery of the A350, especially if the total dollar value can be preserved for accounting purposes.

AA hasn't gone public with the A333 decision according to my google searches. Are you disclosing something confidential? No problem with that at UP, happens all the time  

My F/A friends still say the 333s are being retired next year but that wasn't too recent.  Okay, apparently they are staying. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by CLT704

[xapostrophe]

46 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

At the end of the day, airlines aren't buying planes but delivery slots.  These are swapped and sold all the time.  Airbus would happily convert its remaining A321ceo slots to firm orders instead of having to deal with the constant uncertainty of AA and DAL delaying delivery of the A350, especially if the total dollar value can be preserved for accounting purposes.

AA hasn't gone public with the A333 decision according to my google searches. Are you disclosing something confidential? No problem with that at UP, happens all the time  

Not confidential.  Was in an email regarding the 350 delay.  Maybe not public, but according to the email they are not leaving at least not yet.

[LKN704]

It's been reported on numerous sites that the A333's are staying longer than planned as a result of the A350 deferrals. So if it was supposed to be confidential, multiple people have opened up about it.

That said, the A333's will not be receiving new J/Y seats or AA's new premium economy cabin. The A333's received new bulkheads, carpets, and seat coverings, but will receive no further interior modifications. The A332's will, however, be receiving new seats and IFE in every cabin, and AA's premium economy cabin. Modifications are supposed to start next year, I believe.

[KJHburg]

According to the CLT Twitter account the new FAA tower has been underway for a year and at 370 feet tall will be one of the tallest in the country. Anyone know when it will be complete? 

[CLT2014]

36 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

According to the CLT Twitter account the new FAA tower has been underway for a year and at 370 feet tall will be one of the tallest in the country. Anyone know when it will be complete? 

Height should be finished in 2018, but it won't be functional until 2020:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article81340852.html

[elrodvt]

Has to be that high or it'll be under water. 

[Richhamleigh, DC]

In case anyone wants to send a message to CNBC asking them to correct their error.... http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/05/these-cities-have-the-worst-delays-for-air-travelers.html

Charlotte had 21 million passenger boardings; IAD had 11 million.  I assume they are using passenger boardings because the numbers for other airports are roughly the same as those found here:  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_the_United_States

Fix it CNBC.

[CLT2014]

14 hours ago, Phillydog said:

In case anyone wants to send a message to CNBC asking them to correct their error.... http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/05/these-cities-have-the-worst-delays-for-air-travelers.html

Charlotte had 21 million passenger boardings; IAD had 11 million.  I assume they are using passenger boardings because the numbers for other airports are roughly the same as those found here:  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_the_United_States

Fix it CNBC.

That entire map is junk. San Francisco, Portland, San Diego, and Salt Lake City were all loaded with the exact same passenger count in 2016. 

Dallas Love is loaded bigger than Dallas Fort Worth because it was loaded with the same data as Chicago O'Hare. 

Tampa is loaded as the busiest airport in Florida, when in reality it is fourth. 

Newark and La Guardia were loaded with the exact same passenger count.

The whole thing is a piece of junk that they should just take off their site. Who knows if the on time stats are correct if they couldn't get the passenger numbers right. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by CLT2014

[AP3]

40 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

That entire map is junk. San Francisco, Portland, San Diego, and Salt Lake City were all loaded with the exact same passenger count in 2016. 

Dallas Love is loaded bigger than Dallas Fort Worth because it was loaded with the same data as Chicago O'Hare. 

Tampa is loaded as the busiest airport in Florida, when in reality it is fourth. 

Newark and La Guardia were loaded with the exact same passenger count.

The whole thing is a piece of junk that they should just take off their site. Who knows if the on time stats are correct if they couldn't get the passenger numbers right. 

I submitted a comment regarding the data.  They will be in contact within 24 hours lol.

[rancenc]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

That entire map is junk. San Francisco, Portland, San Diego, and Salt Lake City were all loaded with the exact same passenger count in 2016. 

Dallas Love is loaded bigger than Dallas Fort Worth because it was loaded with the same data as Chicago O'Hare. 

Tampa is loaded as the busiest airport in Florida, when in reality it is fourth. 

Newark and La Guardia were loaded with the exact same passenger count.

The whole thing is a piece of junk that they should just take off their site. Who knows if the on time stats are correct if they couldn't get the passenger numbers right. 

Sounds like lazy journalism on CNNBC's behalf!

[Bikeguy]

..and there's this.  As the frequency of departures continues to climb noise issues will too.  It does seem that there are an increasing number of planes that are failing to gain a sufficient enough level of altitude to minimize the decibel level...   Can anyone here illuminate the issue in regards to distance from takeoff, noise and rate of climb?

https://www.facebook.com/Jet-Noise-over-South-Charlotte-1364338576981472/  

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, Bikeguy said:

..and there's this.  As the frequency of departures continues to climb noise issues will too.  It does seem that there are an increasing number of planes that are failing to gain a sufficient enough level of altitude to minimize the decibel level...   Can anyone here illuminate the issue in regards to distance from takeoff, noise and rate of climb?

https://www.facebook.com/Jet-Noise-over-South-Charlotte-1364338576981472/  

The FAA's NextGen technology allows aircraft to turn faster. So instead of going a less direct route of gradually climbing up to a higher altitude before turning at certain points further out from the airport, the aircraft are making their turns at a lower altitude and at a more direct route. 

Before NextGen, aircraft departing on runway 18L (the runway by Concourse D and E) would have to proceed on a straight line out over Fort Mill/Indian Land before turning to the left towards the Northeast / Europe. Now the flights are making a more efficient turn for the North at a lower altitude, but a less pleasant turn for South Charlotte residents over a highly populated area relative to Fort Mill / Indian Land.

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by CLT2014

[xapostrophe]

4 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

The FAA's NextGen technology allows aircraft to turn faster. So instead of going a less direct route of gradually climbing up to a higher altitude before turning at certain points further out from the airport, the aircraft are making their turns at a lower altitude and at a more direct route. 

Before NextGen, aircraft departing on runway 18L (the runway by Concourse D and E) would have to proceed on a straight line out over Fort Mill/Indian Land before turning to the left towards the Northeast / Europe. Now the flights are making a more efficient turn for the North at a lower altitude, but a less pleasant turn for South Charlotte residents over a highly populated area relative to Fort Mill / Indian Land.

 

 not exactly true, our turns have begun sooner than  they were a about 2 years ago maybe less, but they general route we take is really in the same footprint.   

 

to answer a question posed earlier, weight, airplane performance capability, temperature, humidity,  and wind are all reasons why an airplane might not be higher than another at a certain time.  some departures in other cities have climb requirements, to cross a certain point at a certain altitude, Charlotte does not have these, and honestly there really are very few cities with them. 

[InSouthPark]

18 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

The FAA's NextGen technology allows aircraft to turn faster. So instead of going a less direct route of gradually climbing up to a higher altitude before turning at certain points further out from the airport, the aircraft are making their turns at a lower altitude and at a more direct route. 

Before NextGen, aircraft departing on runway 18L (the runway by Concourse D and E) would have to proceed on a straight line out over Fort Mill/Indian Land before turning to the left towards the Northeast / Europe. Now the flights are making a more efficient turn for the North at a lower altitude, but a less pleasant turn for South Charlotte residents over a highly populated area relative to Fort Mill / Indian Land.

 

I dunno, I guess it depends on where you live in "south charlotte".  I live just north of near Calvary church. The takeoff noise in the evenings has gone down significantly for us since they made the change. Having lived in the same general location for almost 15 years, I know everyone in the Quail Hallow / Carmel Country Club area is happier!   

Another change I have seen lately is that approaches are coming down Providence Rd, turning at Sun City and landing to the North.  Although I could care less about landings as they don't make any noise. Just "different".

[Dale]

I'm surprised by how many planes fly right over my Matthews neighborhood. Although it's not loud or bothersome. I just notice.

[CLT2014]

Delete

Edited June 10, 2017 by CLT2014

[kermit]

How long ago did United drop it's Cleveland service? I assume it was part of their dehubbing there but it feels like it's been less than two years (?)

[SentioVenia]

From Saturday at the overlook:

 

[CLT704]

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fcltairport%2Fposts%2F1515072565210546&width=500

Its been 30 years since we got service to London! Amazing to think of the destination we have service to now, and the fact we have double daily service to London! Maybe we will get 3x daily service in the future. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by CLT704

[uptownliving]

The Concourse Renovation saga continues. City Council just approved a Contract Change with C-Design which basically doubles the value of the design contract for the A/B/C/D Concourse Renovation. Among the stated reasons for the contract change is that American Airlines is now requesting that the airport increase the gate hold rooms. For anyone that has used the airport in the past 10 years + it has been blatantly obvious the need for larger gate holding areas. I'm glad they will be doing something to finally expand the gate holding areas...but surprised it is being done as an add-on to the planned renovations.