Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[kickazzz2000]

Rucho is such a tool.  UGH

[Miesian Corners]

Look for the announcement this afternoon.  The CLT training center will close in April 2016.  

[Deleted.]

Look for the announcement this afternoon. The CLT training center will close in April 2016.

IMO, I think this merger has been nothing but bad for Charlotte. We have lost 5 international destinations, number of seats available have gone down, there are higher fares from CLT then ever before, we get a few new flights on crappy regional jets to the Midwest and now AA are cutting 150 jobs.

Well done, Doug Parker. This merger been brilliant for Charlotte, as you said!!

Edited May 27, 2015 by Piedmont767

[15895]

IMO, I think this merger has been nothing but bad for Charlotte. We have lost 5 international destinations, number of seats available have gone down, there are higher fares from CLT then ever before, we get a few new flights on crappy regional jets to the Midwest and now AA are cutting 150 jobs.

Well done, Doug Parker. This merger been brilliant for Charlotte, as you said!!

That's a huge conclusion to jump to.

[tozmervo]

Those are all pretty factual conclusions.

[CltFlyer]

While I think what we all feared what was going to happen is starting to happen.

 

To be fair.  

 

Demand to Brazil has been falling across the board.  Several airlines have cut back flights to Brazil, it just happens that Charlotte lost all of its Brazil flights.  Did anyone expect flights to Lisbon and Brussels to stick around long term?  

 

Flights to smaller European markets that were *A hubs when we were switching to One World?  Seemed doomed from the beginning.  I do expect flights to Manchester to return eventually.

 

I was almost certain that British Airways would come to CLT finally once again, but unfortunately that hasn't happened yet.  I don't buy the "well they don't have to because of the joint-venture".  They are fly to every other current AA hub (even PHX).  I still think they come some day. as well as Qatar.

 

To the reduction in seats.  

 

If you look, you will find that even DFW hasn't avoided these.  Many cities that used to see all or mostly mainline.  Ex:  BHM, HSV, LIT, XNA, SDF etc....

Now have seen all of those make way for large regional jets.  This isn't a CLT exclusive thing.

Edited May 27, 2015 by CltFlyer

[15895]

We were always going to lose those international flights though. We were nEver going to keep Brussels or Lisbon in my opinion.

Rio D? That might have been our only loss due to a merger.

I'm just. Not sure consolidating flight training to Dallas are tea leaves of a pull down at CLT.

What other cities have flight training?

[Deleted.]

We were always going to lose those international flights though. We were nEver going to keep Brussels or Lisbon in my opinion.

Rio D? That might have been our only loss due to a merger.

I'm just. Not sure consolidating flight training to Dallas are tea leaves of a pull down at CLT.

What other cities have flight training?

Wasn't São Paulo a loss?

As for flight training it's currently only Dallas, Charlotte and Phoenix.

Phoenix was always going to close, but Charlotte wasn't expected only because CLT is the only training center with A330 simulators and A330 Cabin Mock-Ups. So if CLT training center really is closing, then are all the A330 simulators being moved to Dallas?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Piedmont767

[15895]

Wasn't São Paulo a loss?

As for flight training it's currently only Dallas, Charlotte and Phoenix.

Phoenix was always going to close, but Charlotte wasn't expected only because CLT is the only training center with A330 simulators and A330 Cabin Mock-Ups. So if CLT training center really is closing, then are all the A330 simulators being moved to Dallas?

It seems to me to be more efficient to just move them to Dallas. Dallas would be the only city to have training centers and then Charlotte has 330 simulators? It would make long term sense to me to just ship it to DFW.

If Dallas will be the only hub to have flight training, then it makes me even more inclined to say this isn't tea leaves for any axe to Charlotte.

And yes, Sao Paulo also, but, I think I recall US was going to switch Rio to Sao anyway with some people mentioning a Rio tag. Though, I think Sao and possibly Rio could've stayed for a while. Though Lisbon, Brussels and the others were never goijg to last. That was just a carrot IMO

[HopHead]

I can see both sides to this... 1) In larger mergers like this, consolidation does favor the HQ city. Especially when it comes to streamlining operations they'll want to have everything (or as much of everything) in one location. How many times did Charlotte benefit from BofA and First Union/Wachovia when they gobbled up other banks over the years? A lot. US Airways to me was always a Phoenix and Charlotte company since a lot of synergies were shared between the two locales. Clearly, AA wants everything under the Dallas umbrella. I would be more worried if they up said, we're moving the Phoenix training location to Dallas and the Charlotte training ops to Miami. 2) I don't think the hypothesis that cltbwimob stated is that much of a stretch either. The two things that need to get fixed for the airport's long term health as we know are this fight over who controls the airport and the fuel tax cap. As long as those two things are lingering out there, more the latter than the former, there will be speculation as to what effect this will have on the airport's future and role with AA. 

 

Personally, I think this is what Rucho needs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58N_p3KKB0

Edited May 27, 2015 by wend28

[LKN704]

I am a tad bit surprised by the closure (given the recent investment) but ultimately I am not too surprised. When people say flight training will close, is that exclusive to flight deck operations or does that include cabin crew training as well.

 

As for routes, I am even more surprised that BA hasn't entered CLT yet. I don't personally expect BCN and DUB to last through next year.

 

I wonder how Lufthansa is doing...

[xapostrophe]

Wasn't São Paulo a loss?

As for flight training it's currently only Dallas, Charlotte and Phoenix.

Phoenix was always going to close, but Charlotte wasn't expected only because CLT is the only training center with A330 simulators and A330 Cabin Mock-Ups. So if CLT training center really is closing, then are all the A330 simulators being moved to Dallas?

I'll still be stunned if this is true, has anyone been able to validate this? Nobody I know thinks there a chance this is happening due to the capacity in Dallas being limited.   They just put several new RJ sim in CLT as well.  Just doesn't seem likely.   If someone is able to post anything factual about this happening including an article or something I'll buy, in the mean time it is all hearsay.

Edited May 27, 2015 by xapostrophe

[Deleted.]

I'm going to reply to three different posts in one. I'll number them, so

1)wend28's post

2)LKN704's post

3)xapostrophe's post

1) Point one you made- I agree somewhat. Point two you made- It could be a warning to NC, but I'm sure the Republicans would ignore it. Also Rucho needs that and then killing using the slowest. most painful way possible.

2) BCN is one of the best performing destinations this summer based on loads with the lowest possible fare being $1,200 the yields should be good. As for DUB the route has responded well to the A330 and demand should only increase because Aer Lingus is being brought by IAG, joining one world and the JBV with British Airways, American and Iberia. If any European destination is at risk, I'd say Rome.

3) I agree 100% with everything you wrote in your post

Edited May 27, 2015 by Piedmont767

[ssh214]

I think we are all panicking a bit too much... Although it is never good to lose a training center in the grand scheme of things it is 150 jobs and not the closure of a massive operation. It absolutely makes sense that they will be centralizing all operations in Dallas, I think we would all do the same thing if we were Doug Parker. 

 

In terms of routes, we all agree that Lisbon, and Brussels were doomed from the beginning. I personally thought Rio was going to get axed given the Miami and JFK ops (Dallas doesn't even have Rio flights). Sao Paulo I definitely was surprised to lose but somebody mentioned earlier above that is more of a circumstantial cut given the issues with the Brazilian economy and the increasing strength of the Dollas. Manchester will be back, Dublin and Barcelona will remain, and I really do not see losing Rome (no backing to justify my claim, just a gut feeling despite the Miami bandwaggoners saying that flight will shift to Miami).

 

As for British Airways, I am not surprised we have not gotten them either, we have two flights to London daily, Phoenix doesn't have a flight on American Airlines to London that is why BA flies there. Qatar probably can see given the amount of planes they ordered.

 

Let's not forget the biggest positive in Charlotte's favor in my opinion... The airport wouldn't be building a brand new concourse if they did not get assurances from American Airlines of their continued support of CLT. Everybody can point to what happened with Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Memphis, and Cleveland but those were completely different situations.

 

Let's all not panic everything will be fine

Edited May 27, 2015 by saamh

[Deleted.]

I think we are all panicking a bit too much... Although it is never good to lose a training center in the grand scheme of things it is 150 jobs and not the closure of a massive operation. It absolutely makes sense that they will be centralizing all operations in Dallas, I think we would all do the same thing if we were Doug Parker.

In terms of routes, we all agree that Lisbon, and Brussels were doomed from the beginning. I personally thought Rio was going to get axed given the Miami and JFK ops (Dallas doesn't even have Rio flights). Sao Paulo I definitely was surprised to lose but somebody mentioned earlier above that is more of a circumstantial cut given the issues with the Brazilian economy and the increasing strength of the Dollas. Manchester will be back, Dublin and Barcelona will remain, and I really do not see losing Rome (no backing to justify my claim, just a gut feeling despite the Miami bandwaggoners saying that flight will shift to Miami).

As for British Airways, I am not surprised we have not gotten them either, we have two flights to London daily, Phoenix doesn't have a flight on American Airlines to London that is why BA flies there. Qatar probably can see given the amount of planes they ordered.

Let's not forget the biggest positive in Charlotte's favor in my opinion... The airport wouldn't be building a brand new concourse if they did not get assurances from American Airlines of their continued support of CLT. Everybody can point to what happened with Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Memphis, and Cleveland but those were completely different situations.

Let's all not panic everything will be fine

Yes, yes, very true. I'm acting like the sky is falling over Charlotte. Edited May 27, 2015 by Piedmont767

[xapostrophe]

I think we are all panicking a bit too much... Although it is never good to lose a training center in the grand scheme of things it is 150 jobs and not the closure of a massive operation. It absolutely makes sense that they will be centralizing all operations in Dallas, I think we would all do the same thing if we were Doug Parker. 

 

In terms of routes, we all agree that Lisbon, and Brussels were doomed from the beginning. I personally thought Rio was going to get axed given the Miami and JFK ops (Dallas doesn't even have Rio flights). Sao Paulo I definitely was surprised to lose but somebody mentioned earlier above that is more of a circumstantial cut given the issues with the Brazilian economy and the increasing strength of the Dollas. Manchester will be back, Dublin and Barcelona will remain, and I really do not see losing Rome (no backing to justify my claim, just a gut feeling despite the Miami bandwaggoners saying that flight will shift to Miami).

 

As for British Airways, I am not surprised we have not gotten them either, we have two flights to London daily, Phoenix doesn't have a flight on American Airlines to London that is why BA flies there. Qatar probably can see given the amount of planes they ordered.

 

Let's not forget the biggest positive in Charlotte's favor in my opinion... The airport wouldn't be building a brand new concourse if they did not get assurances from American Airlines of their continued support of CLT. Everybody can point to what happened with Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Memphis, and Cleveland but those were completely different situations.

 

Let's all not panic everything will be fine

 

 

Spot on.   Pittsburgh was closed nearly 20 years after the airport was built.    Memphis certainly isn't a new terminal and neither was Cleveland.  Cincinatti on the other had was fairly new.

 

 

Until some one posts an article or press release from AA regarding this its not true,  interestingly enough the original poster who claimed it was happening hasn't been back to post anything new.

[15895]

Spot on. Pittsburgh was closed nearly 20 years after the airport was built. Memphis certainly isn't a new terminal and neither was Cleveland. Cincinatti on the other had was fairly new.

Until some one posts an article or press release from AA regarding this its not true, interestingly enough the original poster who claimed it was happening hasn't been back to post anything new.

That poster has been very accurate for years.

[kermit]

 interestingly enough the original poster who claimed it was happening hasn't been back to post anything new.

 

probably because he is busy working at CLT.....

 

Until some one posts an article or press release from AA regarding this its not true,

 

I dig your Ostrich logic.

[xapostrophe]

probably because he is busy working at CLT.....

 

 

I dig your Ostrich logic.

 

you mean where i work, and haven't heard anything close to this?

[Miesian Corners]

From the AA employee intranet:

Flight Service Training: Making a Move

 May 27, 2015 11:48 AM

American is working to recruit and train the best flight attendants in the business, and as we do that, we want to give our flight attendants training that is second to none – everything from curriculum to facilities to overall experience.

 

As we look to our future as a combined airline, we will be consolidating our flight attendant training from three locations where recurrent Flight Service training is conducted today (CLT, PHX and Flagship University in Fort Worth) to our Flagship University in Fort Worth. All new hire flight attendant training for both American and US Airways is already conducted at Flagship University.

 

This move will give us a more consistent delivery of training programs and increased support from a centralized team of Instructors and Program Developers, and we can look to streamline our training programs and remove duplications over time. Plus, the training center in Fort Worth comes with onsite hotel and conference center amenities that includes: a health and fitness center, great food, credit union branch/banking and more. The move also just makes sense – doing so will help remove unnecessary costs that we’re currently incurring by having to purchase and maintain duplicate equipment such as cabin door trainers, evacuation trainers, and inflight medical equipment.

 

Consolidation will happen over time, beginning when we move training from our PHX Center to DFW in August 2015; CLT will move to DFW in April 2016.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Miesian Corners

[xapostrophe]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article22434837.html

 

 

there it is.  the flight attendants are moving.

 

 

far cry from closing the entire training center.

[Miesian Corners]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article22434837.html

 

 

there it is.  the flight attendants are moving.

 

 

far cry from closing the entire training center.

152 jobs are affected.  They're not including food service workers, building maintenance, and flight service maintenance workers who aren't employees of AA.  But whatever.  The loss of 210 flight attendants going through recurrent training six days a week, 332 days a year ain't nothing.  

[xapostrophe]

152 jobs are affected.  They're not including food service workers, building maintenance, and flight service maintenance workers who aren't employees of AA.  But whatever.  The loss of 210 flight attendants going through recurrent training six days a week, 332 days a year ain't nothing.  

Alas, it makes great sense, they already have a dedicated flight attendant training center, why on earth would you send them somewhere else?

 

I know the tax dollars and local revenue will be affected.  But honestly 200 so people isn't going to desimate anything in the local economy.  The hotels in the area are almost always full, honestly there needs to be another 10 hotels near the airport.    I have to say though you must not spend a lot of time at the training center you have 4 regional airlines doing pilot training there as well as the AA pilots.   The cafeteria there won't downsize,  its packed at lunch and not with flight attendants.   Not sure what you think will happen to the rest of the employees...there is still plent of work to be done there.

 

Now if AA dehubbed CLT we could be in trouble.

 

 

Also you said 152 people would be affected, thats probably pretty close to the entire centers employee group, so with only the flight attendants leaving they aren't going to lay off the entire work group.

Edited May 27, 2015 by xapostrophe

[Miesian Corners]

Alas, it makes great sense, they already have a dedicated flight attendant training center, why on earth would you send them somewhere else?

 

I know the tax dollars and local revenue will be affected.  But honestly 200 so people isn't going to desimate anything in the local economy.  The hotels in the area are almost always full, honestly there needs to be another 10 hotels near the airport.    I have to say though you must not spend a lot of time at the training center you have 4 regional airlines doing pilot training there as well as the AA pilots.   The cafeteria there won't downsize,  its packed at lunch and not with flight attendants.   Not sure what you think will happen to the rest of the employees...there is still plent of work to be done there.

 

Now if AA dehubbed CLT we could be in trouble.

 

 

Also you said 152 people would be affected, thats probably pretty close to the entire centers employee group, so with only the flight attendants leaving they aren't going to lay off the entire work group.

Ok

[Deleted.]

152 jobs are affected.  They're not including food service workers, building maintenance, and flight service maintenance workers who aren't employees of AA.  But whatever.  The loss of 210 flight attendants going through recurrent training six days a week, 332 days a year ain't nothing.

The article says only 13 jobs will be affected and they are being transferred to DFW. The pilot trading center with all the simulators will stay here in Charlotte. So it's not too bad.