Richmond Region Transportation

[Child2021]

GRTC Growth and Expansion (arcgis.com)

[plain]

GRTC has begun the modification of the Pulse stations to accommodate the 60' busses. This morning I saw the VCU Medical and the Government Center (both westbound) stations closed with caution tape, with the latter already modified.

[Brent114]

Awesome.  I didn’t expect this to happen so quickly. 

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, Brent114 said:

Awesome.  I didn’t expect this to happen so quickly. 

Neither did I. This is good to see.

[Child2021]

Press Release: GRTC Announces Grand Opening Of Downtown Transfer Station (mailchi.mp)

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, Child2021 said:

Press Release: GRTC Announces Grand Opening Of Downtown Transfer Station (mailchi.mp)

Hoping and praying this is a temporary transfer lot. GRTC's hub needs to be part of a larger development.

[plain]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:56 PM, I miss RVA said:

Hoping and praying this is a temporary transfer lot. GRTC's hub needs to be part of a larger development.

GRTC said that it's temporary. Which means either the permanent one or another temporary one will be built 7-10 years from now.

[Flood Zone]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:56 PM, I miss RVA said:

Hoping and praying this is a temporary transfer lot. GRTC's hub needs to be part of a larger development.

Everything is temporary compared to the span of existence.

Seriously, though, I have no particular reason to doubt that it's temporary. When a more robust replacement comes along, however, I have no clue. But as far as this one goes, it's really not that bad when viewed in its context and it will certainly make things more comfortable for the ridership. So, it's a win!

[I miss RVA]

9 hours ago, plain said:

GRTC said that it's temporary. Which means either the permanent one or another temporary one will be built 7-10 years from now.

If we're lucky... 

[I miss RVA]

Reporting in today's RBS about two GRTC developments: opening of the (please GOD!!!) TEMPORARY GRTC downtown transfer lot, and the eight-mile-long extension of bus service (route 1A) along Midlothian Turnpike from just beyond the city line to just west of Chesterfield Towne Center.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/08/31/grtc-to-open-new-downtown-transfer-station-ahead-of-southside-route-expansion/

[eandslee]

How about this!  The GRTC transfer station just opened to lots of fanfair…only to close again today for an undetermined amount of time to do “critical work.”  I thought everything was complete…we did have a grand opening, right?! 
 

https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/richmond/grtc-downtown-transfer-station-temporarily-closing-for-critical-work/

[Flood Zone]

I guess they read Slipek's review about the potentially dangerous sloping canyon access points?

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, Flood Zone said:

I guess they read Slipek's review about the potentially dangerous sloping canyon access points?

I saw Dr. S's commentary - and noticed the photo and the first thing that ran through my mind upon seeing the picture is: I hope and pray they have proper drainage there because all it'll take is one good, old-fashioned gully-washer severe thunderstorm and they'd better hope those buses float and have rudders and outboard motors installed. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by I miss RVA

[123fakestreet]

https://www.henricocitizen.com/articles/grtc-seeking-input-about-proposed-north-south-pulse-routes/

 

Interactive map so you can see routes up close https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3411912a876c4607b7a797ff88a09b42/page/Map/?views=View-2

Edited October 10, 2023 by 123fakestreet

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, 123fakestreet said:

https://www.henricocitizen.com/articles/grtc-seeking-input-about-proposed-north-south-pulse-routes/

Key nugget from the city's perspective - what route will the north-south line follow through the central portion of the city? From the Henrico Citizen article:

In Richmond, there are three potential options:
• one would travel along Leigh Street, 1st and 2nd street, Broad Street, 8th and 9th streets and cross over the Manchester Bridge;
• another would use Lombardy Street, Broad Street, 8th and 9th streets and the Manchester Bridge;
• the third would travel along Lombardy, Broad, 1st and 2nd streets and the Route 1 bridge.

Personally, my preference is for the second option, as it would allow for transfers from the current line to the new line along a longer stretch of Broad Street, could use existing Broad Street PULSE stations (cutting into construction costs) and it would serve the VCU station, which was one of the thoughts previously about running the north-south line down Belvidere. Also, the Manchester Bridge crossing is the best way to come south into/through Manchester.

Interestingly, the city in the City Center SAP strongly advocated running the line down Leigh to 8th/9th, presumably to connect with the GRTC transfer plaza. While that would be great - I think the second option that utilizes a longer stretch of Broad, would serve VCU and use exist PULSE stations creating PULSE transfer points - is the best way to go.

Thoughts?

Here's the link to the splash page of the GRTC study as provided by the Henrico Citizen:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3411912a876c4607b7a797ff88a09b42/

Here's the link to what appears to be the actual survey:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3411912a876c4607b7a797ff88a09b42/page/Route-Options/

Here's how to contact the folks at GRTC who are actively involved in the planning process:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3411912a876c4607b7a797ff88a09b42/page/Get-Involved/

Edited October 10, 2023 by I miss RVA

[123fakestreet]

28 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Key nugget from the city's perspective - what route will the north-south line follow through the central portion of the city? From the Henrico Citizen article:

In Richmond, there are three potential options:
• one would travel along Leigh Street, 1st and 2nd street, Broad Street, 8th and 9th streets and cross over the Manchester Bridge;
• another would use Lombardy Street, Broad Street, 8th and 9th streets and the Manchester Bridge;
• the third would travel along Lombardy, Broad, 1st and 2nd streets and the Route 1 bridge.

Personally, my preference is for the second option, as it would allow for transfers from the current line to the new line along a longer stretch of Broad Street, could use existing Broad Street PULSE stations (cutting into construction costs) and it would serve the VCU station, which was one of the thoughts previously about running the north-south line down Belvidere. Also, the Manchester Bridge crossing is the best way to come south into/through Manchester.

Interestingly, the city in the City Center SAP strongly advocated running the line down Leigh to 8th/9th, presumably to connect with the GRTC transfer plaza. While that would be great - I think the second option that utilizes a longer stretch of Broad, would serve VCU and use exist PULSE stations creating PULSE transfer points - is the best way to go.

Thoughts?

Here's the link to the splash page of the GRTC study as provided by the Henrico Citizen:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3411912a876c4607b7a797ff88a09b42/

Here's the link to what appears to be the actual survey:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3411912a876c4607b7a797ff88a09b42/page/Route-Options/

First thing I found interesting was Chamberlayne is a definite. 

Of the 5 options through the city, how can they not use 9th street?

1. Lombardy - this is kind of a side street that puts the route too far west and duplicates too much of the Broad St route.

2. 14th street just seems dumb, who uses 14th st? That's not near anything anyone goes to.

3.  2nd street is just kind of in the middle, either pick Belvidere or pick closer downtown.

4. Belivdere works, but IMO there should be 2 different routes, Belvidere and 9th.

5. 9th St. INSANE to not use 9th, with the transfer plaza, MCV, City Hall & State Gov't buildings, convention center not far away.  9th is dead middle of downtown near everything.

The southern 3 routes, again I think there should be 2 routes, 1 due south on Jeff Davis and one down Hull to Midlo. Staying on Hull all the way down I don't think works, it's not nearly dense enough.

 

repost of my model for the BRT I made like a year ago, I still think this is a very realistic model and what we need. It could be constructed based on the options GRTC just presented other than GRTC using Belt blvd to get from Hull to Midlo. https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=15FE9aRK0aSbZC8B6VZTA-Fwh2LYyAmvI&ehbc=2E312F

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by 123fakestreet

[I miss RVA]

25 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

First thing I found interesting was Chamberlayne is a definite. 

Of the 5 options through the city, how can they not use 9th street?

1. Lombardy - this is kind of a side street that puts the route too far west and duplicates too much of the Broad St route.

2. 14th street just seems dumb, who uses 14th st? That's not near anything anyone goes to.

3.  2nd street is just kind of in the middle, either pick Belvidere or pick closer downtown.

4. Belivdere works, but IMO there should be 2 different routes, Belvidere and 9th.

INSANE to not use 9th, with the transfer plaza, MCV, City Hall & State Gov't buildings, convention center not far away.  9th is dead middle of downtown near everything.

 

The southern 3 routes, again I think there should be 2 routes, 1 due south on Jeff Davis and one down Hull to Midlo. Staying on Hull all the way down I don't think works, it's not nearly dense enough.

Two of the options use 8th and 9th streets, which aligns with the City Center Small Area Plan. I might be blind, but I'm not seeing any mention of 14th street in the three primary options that are being considered.

As for duplication/overlap on Broad - I don't see that as a negative. It uses existing stations (which potentially trims construction costs and could actually expedite development of this line), allows for transfer options between the north/south and east/west routes at different locations (you see this with the subway in New York and the "L" in Chicago - multiple lines often share stations over a specific stretch of the city) and would allow north/south service to stop at the VCU station - eliminating the need to construct another station on Belvidere to serve the academic campus.

Edited October 10, 2023 by I miss RVA

[123fakestreet]

1 minute ago, I miss RVA said:

Two of the options use 8th and 9th streets.

yes I'm saying that's clearly the one the should use

[I miss RVA]

14 minutes ago, 123fakestreet said:

yes I'm saying that's clearly the one the should use

The city is pushing for this route as well, as it's been included in the City Center Small Area Plan. I think based on survey data they have already accumulated, GRTC have concluded that 14th Street is a total non-starter. I agree. Using the Manchester Bridge and 8th & 9th streets downtown is absolutely the best way to go.

[Flood Zone]

As long as we are realistic that this is going to be a glorified "normal" bus line for much of the stretch south of the river, let's get to it.

I like the idea of doubling up some of the Broad Street stops -- except for one thing. Doing so seems to risk creating a glut and gumming up operations. The stretch of Broad downtown is not efficiently run during rush-hour.

[eandslee]

38 minutes ago, Flood Zone said:

As long as we are realistic that this is going to be a glorified "normal" bus line for much of the stretch south of the river, let's get to it.

I like the idea of doubling up some of the Broad Street stops -- except for one thing. Doing so seems to risk creating a glut and gumming up operations. The stretch of Broad downtown is not efficiently run during rush-hour.

They really need to do everything possible to make the BRT lanes dedicated lanes!  No sense in building if it’s just going to be another bus traveling with traffic.  There’s absolutely nothing rapid about that!

[I miss RVA]

19 minutes ago, eandslee said:

They really need to do everything possible to make the BRT lanes dedicated lanes!  No sense in building if it’s just going to be another bus traveling with traffic.  There’s absolutely nothing rapid about that!

!!!

[BigBobbyG]

19 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

The city is pushing for this route as well, as it's been included in the City Center Small Area Plan. I think based on survey data they have already accumulated, GRTC have concluded that 14th Street is a total non-starter. I agree. Using the Manchester Bridge and 8th & 9th streets downtown is absolutely the best way to go.

This isn't meant to be a snarky rhetorical comment I am genuinely curious on your view, do you think 8th and 9th is a better option than just a straight shot from Chamberlayne down to Belvedere and on to Route 1? I can't deny that going down 8th and 9th would do a world of good for a lot of people but I feel like the efficiency and economic opportunity of a straight route spanning the length of the city north to south can't be overlooked either.

[123fakestreet]

9 hours ago, BigBobbyG said:

This isn't meant to be a snarky rhetorical comment I am genuinely curious on your view, do you think 8th and 9th is a better option than just a straight shot from Chamberlayne down to Belvedere and on to Route 1? I can't deny that going down 8th and 9th would do a world of good for a lot of people but I feel like the efficiency and economic opportunity of a straight route spanning the length of the city north to south can't be overlooked either.

That's why we need 2 routes. City seems insistent on only 1 route that goes  down Chamberlayne as well as thru 9th, so instead of 2 new, well done effective routes I'm sure we'll end up with one hodgepodge inefficient route. Never underestimate the city's ability to mess something up.

Edited October 11, 2023 by 123fakestreet

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, BigBobbyG said:

This isn't meant to be a snarky rhetorical comment I am genuinely curious on your view, do you think 8th and 9th is a better option than just a straight shot from Chamberlayne down to Belvedere and on to Route 1? I can't deny that going down 8th and 9th would do a world of good for a lot of people but I feel like the efficiency and economic opportunity of a straight route spanning the length of the city north to south can't be overlooked either.

It's a fair question, @BigBobbyG.  Ideally, I actually want BOTH - but we all know that, given the money involved, that's going to be a tough nut to crack. It comes down to what southern-most terminus gets priority and what route through downtown does it take.

Prior to the development of the City Center SAP, I was in the firmly camp of running the north-south line straight down Belvidere to Cowardin Ave and Route 1. However, doing so all but completely bypasses the core area of Manchester, which is growing rapidly and increasing in density. Plus - it would require construction of a separate VCU station (likely near Broad or at Broad itself) - and such a straight north-south route would offer no common place for riders to transfer to the east-west PULSE line, and it makes no sense to construct ANOTHER station for the east-west line there, since one already exists a couple blocks west. 

I tend to think the priority should be the Route 60 line, particularly given the economic opportunities that exist currently along Midlothian Turnpike - and also I think building in sufficient infrastructure that will make direct transfer points available (meaning, without having to walk between stations) is essential. Using 8th & 9th allows direct access to the Manchester Bridge, which allows routing via Commerce Road, which right now is still on the edge of the fast-growing core of Manchester, but in the future when development "jumps" over Commerce Road and keeps pushing toward Cowardin Avenue, will be much more central to a highly developed Manchester neighborhood.

As for "stair-stepping" the order of development south of the river, I personally think the routes should be implemented in the following order:

1.) Midlothian Turnpike line

2.) US 1 line

3.) Hull Street line

A splitting of the routes at Chamberlayne and Lombardy could potentially carry the US 1 line directly down to Belvidere, cross the river, down Cowardin and down the Pike, although the problem is not having a common transfer point/shared station with the Broad Street line.

Looking down the road - as all of these lines are eventually developed, GRTC is going to need to either color-code the lines or name them. Either way is fine. Red, Green, Blue, Purple, Orange, Yellow - whatever. Or simply the Broad Street Line, the US 1 Line, the Hull Street Line, the Midlothian Line. How ever they want to do it. But it's going to need to be implemented as the new lines are built and put into service.

Edited October 11, 2023 by I miss RVA