NASCAR Hall of Fame

[dubone]

did daytona drop out, or do you just mean, you are counting them out because they didn't get their money?

and i agree, i don't mind losing it to atlanta or another city that can make the economics work better than here... fair is fair... but it would a huge waste if it is moved for spite or personality conflict. i know it could happen, but i guess i'd rather pretend things don't happen on secret masonic handshakes.

[A2]

did daytona drop out, or do you just mean, you are counting them out because they didn't get their money?

and i agree, i don't mind losing it to atlanta or another city that can make the economics work better than here... fair is fair...  but it would a huge waste if it is moved for spite or personality conflict.  i know it could happen, but i guess i'd rather pretend things don't happen on secret masonic handshakes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yup....just the $$$ thing. If they had they money, I would be seriously adding them to the list of contenders.

[A2]

i know it could happen, but i guess i'd rather pretend things don't happen on secret masonic handshakes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[skysdalimit]

Dude ATL has nothing over us. We have major corporations and major NASCAR players as well.

[Sabaidee]

4.  It is the largest city on the list and is the most centrally located (via highways and airports) which will increase attendance

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most articles are saying this is a con for Atlanta, it's network of highways may be vast but it's congested with traffic and it's airport is packed.

[dubone]

atl has tons and tons of people, money, and people with money. it is certainly a solid bid, and georgia has its own ties to nascar. in a real way, they are our competition for the HOF.

the KC bid is only serious if it is because the Frances own the track and want to dis bruton smith and the gang. it would be really really bad to not lose out because of numbers or other rational criteria... but rather some personal conflict.

just the fact that the bids were delivered to charlotte makes it clear that this city has major ties to the nascar business, and not just the history.

[skysdalimit]

I am more scared of KC than ATL, just b/c of politics. If there were no politics involved, CLT would get this one hands down. ATL has corporate support, but so do we. ATL has a few NASCAR players, CLT has more. ATL has some NASCAR history, CLT has much more. I know ATL has not released any true renderings yet of their proposal, but it would be pretty tough to beat CLT's. The only reason CLT would lose this bid would be because of the France's politics in KC.

I think if we lose the bid, we should just build a NASCAR museum here anyway and see how many more people will come here than the one in KC.

But I truly believe we will win, so hopefully that will not be a problem.

[jb4563]

By the way, I think Brian France's (Chairman of NASCAR) email address is

bfrance at nascar dot com

if you want to lobby

[dubone]

the observer has a lot more details on the post construction financing. I guess they could all change based on negotiations, but at first it does appear to be a sweetheart deal for nascar...

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/spo...ts/11849673.htm

...and we are clearly sucking up to the frances to get it:

In an early draft of their bid, Charlotte officials proposed making NASCAR founder "Big Bill" France Sr. and his wife the first inductees.

...

Charlotte leaders also heap praise on the entire France family in the opening pages of their finished proposal. A typical line: "Three generations of the France family successfully have fueled a regional passion for stock car racing into a national pastime unlike any other."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/spo...ts/11849780.htm

It is quite interesting to me that the single family has such unilateral control of the sport.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

hehe. I dont see how we can lose this thing. Any business would take a deal like this.

[ElricSeven]

hehe. I dont see how we can lose this thing. Any business would take a deal like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frankly, the hype has ruined it for me. I think there are good reasons to have it here, and good reasons not to. It would be a great tourist attraction, our first true tourist attraction, really. However, if we didn't get it, there'd be no excuses for not backing the arts package in some form at least. We know now that they are capable of decisive action.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

indeed. It does show what the true priorities are.

[jb4563]

hehe. I dont see how we can lose this thing. Any business would take a deal like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We'll lose it if the France family wants to spite Bruton Smith.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

of course. One just has to hope that business comes first.

[eastsider]

I'm just not buying this spite arguement. Remember Smith helped nascar expand in the west by building tracks in Texas (Fort Worth) and Las Vegas. He also bought and upgraded Infineon Raceway - the road course in N. California.

[UptownGrrl]

Another Nascar-Charlotte Connection:

Charlotte Lands NASCAR Reality Show

"Twenty-five aspiring drivers will compete in a new reality-TV show filmed in Charlotte starting this month and shown next fall on The Discovery Channel.

The winner will compete in the 2006 NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series.

The producers for "America's Next Top Driver" -- still a working title -- are now in Charlotte and hiring crew members for the four to six weeks of shooting."

[jb4563]

I'm just not buying this spite arguement. Remember Smith helped nascar expand in the west by building tracks in Texas (Fort Worth) and Las Vegas. He also bought and upgraded Infineon Raceway - the road course in N. California.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't understand NASCAR if you say that.

The France family hates Bruton.

[eastsider]

You don't understand NASCAR if you say that.

The France family hates Bruton.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Theres no question they don't like each other here are a few more points why I don't think this fued will play a factor.

-If the Frances wanted to punish Smith, they would have yanked the all-star race from him years ago. The fact is nobody can promote it like the people at Lowe's Motor Speedway.

-Smith will not always own Lowe's, nobody can live forever.

-Smith will have nothing to do with the hof, it will be owned by the city.

-Nobody knows what is contained in the KC & Atl bids, so I don't see how anybody can say Charlotte's is the best right now.

[ElricSeven]

Theres no question they don't like each other here are a few more points why I don't think this fued will play a factor.

-If the Frances wanted to punish Smith, they would have yanked the all-star race from him years ago. The fact is nobody can promote it like the people at Lowe's Motor Speedway.

-Smith will not always own Lowe's, nobody can live forever.

-Smith will have nothing to do with the hof, it will be owned by the city.

-Nobody knows what is contained in the KC & Atl bids, so I don't see how anybody can say Charlotte's is the best right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we just need to be patient and see what happens.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/spo...ts/11869762.htm

i am beginning to think it may be ingenious for us to have low-balled our attendance number.

It basically says that our financial plan doesn't rely on an aggressive attendance number which would be hard or impossible to sustain. 400k is very very doable over time, especially when compared to visitorship at the other nearby nascar attractions.

as the bids get debunked by the consultants and analysts in Raleigh, where they are now, it is possible that the ATL and KC bids will get major points off for not being able to sustain the visitor estimates. It is entirely conceivable that if the consultants figure they can't get those numbers, that the financing and soundness of their whole bids could collapse. Our numbers, being conservative and sustainable, could get our bid counted as the most sound by the analysts.

at least that is a positive spin on our low numbers.

[jb4563]

I've been saying all along that we underestimated our numbers or had the most realistic numbers.

All the Atlanta folks are saying they are going to get the HOF because they will get a million visitors a year.

[eastsider]

Its seems the Observer has gotten some info on Atlantas' bid through Georgia's Open Records Law. A quick breakdown:

-Facility would be 105,00 sf at a cost of $92M.

-It would cost $24M/year to run when it opens in 2008 rising to $26.5M/year in 2017.

-Facility operations could all be paid for by ticket sales, souvenirs, and concessions.

-Annual payments to NASCAR of more than $400,000 for use of its brand and merchandise.

-Annual rent of $871,000 for use of land owned by Ted Turner

-Admission price: $18 Adults - $12 Children

How Charlotte compares:

-Facility would be 130,000 sf at a cost of $137.5M ($37.5M for ballroom).

-Facility operations could all be paid for by ticket sales, souvenirs, and concessions.

-Annual payments to NASCAR of undisclosed amount for use of its brand and merchandise.

-No annual rent, property owned by the city.

-Admission price: $17 Adults - $8 Children

Full article: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ts/11900178.htm

[A2]

Its seems the Observer has gotten some info on Atlantas' bid through Georgia's Open Records Law. A quick breakdown:

-Facility would be 105,00 sf at a cost of $92M.

-It would cost $24M/year to run when it opens in 2008 rising to $26.5M/year in 2017.

-Facility operations could all be paid for by ticket sales, souvenirs, and concessions.

-Annual payments to NASCAR of more than $400,000 for use of its brand and merchandise.

-Annual rent of $871,000 for use of land owned by Ted Turner

-Admission price: $18 Adults - $12 Children

How Charlotte compares:

-Facility would be 130,000 sf at a cost of $137.5M ($37.5M for ballroom).

-Facility operations could all be paid for by ticket sales, souvenirs, and concessions.

-Annual payments to NASCAR of undisclosed amount for use of its brand and merchandise.

-No annual rent, property owned by the city.

-Admission price: $17 Adults - $8 Children

Full article: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ts/11900178.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Based on these figures we would definately have the "upper-hand" in landing the NHOF. IMHO, the only thing standing in the way is the VERY conservative figures Charlotte is touting on the visitor side as compared to ATL.

JMHO.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

the upperhand? It looks like the competition is solely KC.

[A2]

the upperhand? It looks like the competition is solely KC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

do we have any figures on the KC deal for the HOF???

(what are they going to bring to the table?)