Greenville Transit

[RestedTraveler]

And there ya have it.

[mallguy]

Currently, the federal government does not have the money to build light rail here and in most other places due to the Bush Administration using 300 billion dollars on a stupid war. Also, the scdot can't even keep up with their own roads.

Please look at the facts: federal spending on transit has increased during the Bush administration, in many years faster than for some other forms of transportation.

Edited August 21, 2006 by mallguy

[carolinadude9409]

Please look at the facts: federal spending on transit has increased during the Bush administration, in many years faster than for some other forms of transportation.

It would of increased faster though with high gas prices if we didn't have a guy in office who's best friend is the oil companies and who has spent 300 billion dollars on a war that is out of control. Think about how much 300 billion dollars would of helped our education and public transportation.

[carolinadude9409]

Here is what we can expect by the year 2025: http://www.greenvilleforward.com/Downloada...on%20Vision.pdf

Also, look under transportation projects here: http://lgraham.senate.gov/index.cfm?mode=p...e&id=219368. I didn't know the City of Greenville's multi-modal transit center was going to get improvements. You can also look at this site under "Bus and Bus Facilities Earmarks" and scroll down to SC to see what i'm talking about: http://www.apta.com/government_affairs/app...arksadvance.cfm. The Lindsey Graham one says $200,000, while the apta one says $525,000. Here is one I just found though that shows $1,000,000 for improvements towards the bottom of the third page: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:rn8SZS...t=clnk&cd=1

Edited August 22, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[carolinadude9409]

Here are two others I found that show the same thing: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&am...OC_562243& look under City of Greenville, SC and http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:8jE2BZ...clnk&cd=19; look under SC in the B section and City of Greenville multi... in the C section.

[carolinadude9409]

Part of this says they want all cars off Main Street by 2025 except for cross traffic and replaced with trolley cars: http://www.greenvilleforward.com/Downloada...on%20Vision.pdf

I agree with this all the way. If you have ever been to Denver, they have a great system on their main road (16th Street Mall) downtown where only buses, emergency vehicles, and maintenance vehicles are allowed to go. The 36 buses go up and down the street, stop at certain points like every half a block, and there is usually a 30-60 second wait between buses. Their also free to ride too. Greenville should definitely look into this. Here is more info on their system: http://www.transteq.com/ or http://www.ngv.org/ngv/ngvorg01.nsf/bytitl...qTransitBus.htm

Edited August 22, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[carolinadude9409]

I think they should take out all of the parking along Main Street out and put trees in its place. The two-lane road left should be allowed for buses, trolleys, emergency vehicles, and maintence vehicles only. The road should be completely closed off to all vehicles including the ones I listed above during events like Fall for Greenville and the Cycling Championships, unless there's an emergency.

Edited August 22, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[carolinadude9409]

Expect legislation to pass a referendum by 2010 to create a Regional Authority and have it in place by 2015. Also, expect HOV lanes to go up on I-85/I-385, a "skybridge" to go over Main Street, a northern connector loop through Traveler's Rest like the Southern Connector through Simpsonville, 8 lanes on I-85, 2 runways at GSP and Donaldson Center, light rail, high-speed rail, monorail system, new multi-modal transit center in downtown and at GSP, more buses with better bus lines, more bike and walking trails, more mixed-use developments, utilized reversible lanes at peak times of traffic, more pedestrian crosswalks with crossing signals, another control-access highway through Greenville like I-85 alternative in Spartanburg, major airport hub at GSP, parking garages and plazas for park and ride, less school buses with more carpooling and mass transit use, dedicated truck routes, more greenways, free flowing access for emergency vehicles, more neighborhood/retail centers, and a lot more by 2025. Man, I can't wait until 2025 rolls around, even though it's still a little over 18 years away.

Edited August 22, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[carolinadude9409]

For people who haven't seen this study for high speed rail through Greenville and surrounding areas: http://www.sehsr.org/reports/MACCLTrept2004.pdf. I would say we'll probably get high speed rail by 2010.

[carolinadude9409]

Greenville/Spartanburg is one of the areas in the southeast under top priority to get high speed rail: http://www.sehsr.org/reports/time2act/actchapter7.html

Edited August 22, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[carolinadude9409]

High-Speed Rail would work and survive here: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:JDkh7I...=clnk&cd=10

Edited August 22, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[GvilleSC]

I think they should take out all of the parking along Main Street out and put trees in its place. The two-lane road left should be allowed for buses, trolleys, emergency vehicles, and maintence vehicles only. The road should be completely closed off to all vehicles including the ones I listed above during events like Fall for Greenville and the Cycling Championships, unless there's an emergency.

I really like this idea! I'd like to see the sidewalks widened to accomidate the rising amount of pedestrian traffic. I'd also love to see tracks running down main for trolleys. The city has some good plans. I'd like to see them implemented soon.

[mallguy]

I'm a big, big, big supporter of most any type of mass transit/pedestrian-friendly developments, but Greenville has a very poor track record of carrying out plans such as these. Even in the early 1970s, plans were in the works for a multi-modal transportation center downtown, complete with fast passenger trains serving it.

So basically don't plan on our elected officials carrying out this stuff.

[RestedTraveler]

So basically don't plan on our elected officials carrying out this stuff.

Not as long as we keep electing them...

[tr2greenville]

I agree that closing off main street to cars would create a cool atmosphere. Unfortunately, Knox White says that the city isn't really looking into that idea. Believe it or not, he says that a lot of main street businesses survive on drive-by visibility.

[Greenville]

I like Main Street being two lanes wide, and allowing cars to drive on it. It would feel quite strange to only have trolleys and/or buses going up and down it.

[carolinadude9409]

I like Main Street being two lanes wide, and allowing cars to drive on it. It would feel quite strange to only have trolleys and/or buses going up and down it.

ummm...not really. Just go to Denver, Colorado some day. When I went there, they had those buses going up their main two lane road only and it didn't seem strange at all. Actually it seemed really cool. There were also a ton of people using them and there were restaurants including Hard Rock Cafe and stores that lined the street that got better business than the ones in downtown Greenville .

Edited August 23, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[whitehourseview]

ummm...not really. Just go to Denver, Colorado some day. When I went there, they had those buses going up their main two lane road only and it didn't seem strange at all. Actually it seemed really cool. There were also a ton of people using them and there were restaurants including Hard Rock Cafe and stores that lined the street that got better business than the ones in downtown Greenville .

Shutting down Main St. flamed out for Spartanburg, I could see it doing the same in Greenville.

[carolinadude9409]

Shutting down Main St. flamed out for Spartanburg, I could see it doing the same in Greenville.

Sorry, but what does flamed out mean?

[mallguy]

Sorry, but what does flamed out mean?

It bombed. Raleigh also closed off its main street downtown. Retailers fled.

People in the Carolinas just do not like to walk more than just minimal distances. In Greenville, people can park and shop close to their cars. Based on other cities' experiences, changing this could be a recipe for disaster.

Plus, Main Street in Greenville really is not that crowded with pedestrians. Compare it to 42nd Street in Manhattan during rush hour or 34th Street during Christmas!

[vicupstate]

Sorry, but what does flamed out mean?

It means it tanked.

While Denver's system, which I have experienced, is not a true Pedestrian Mall, it is a hybrid of sorts. Pedestrian malls were all the rage in the 1960's and 1970's when Urban renewal was popular. Unfortunately, nearly all of them failed. Florence, Spartanburg and Raleigh all had one. Rock Hill had an "enclosed" one. None of them are in place today.

Pedestrian Malls only survive where there is very high density and the high-count foot traffic that comes with that. Greenville doesn't have that level of density DT yet, nowhere close.

Denver's works and it is 'cool', but that is a much bigger city and a regional city as well. Lots of high rises dot the 16th Street Mall and it draws the tourists and locals at nights and weekends.

Greenville's Main Street is working just fine, no need to change it.

As for those "Vision" plans. Every city has them, and not everything gets implemented. Greenville just completed implementing the "Vision' plan ending in 2005. A good percentage of the items in it were completed, but not everything. Things that seem like a great idea in 2006 may not be right once 2018 gets here.

[carolinadude9409]

It means it tanked.

While Denver's system, which I have experienced, is not a true Pedestrian Mall, it is a hybrid of sorts. Pedestrian malls were all the rage in the 1960's and 1970's when Urban renewal was popular. Unfortunately, nearly all of them failed. Florence, Spartanburg and Raleigh all had one. Rock Hill had an "enclosed" one. None of them are in place today.

Pedestrian Malls only survive where there is very high density and the high-count foot traffic that comes with that. Greenville doesn't have that level of density DT yet, nowhere close.

Denver's works and it is 'cool', but that is a much bigger city and a regional city as well. Lots of high rises dot the 16th Street Mall and it draws the tourists and locals at nights and weekends.

Greenville's Main Street is working just fine, no need to change it.

As for those "Vision" plans. Every city has them, and not everything gets implemented. Greenville just completed implementing the "Vision' plan ending in 2005. A good percentage of the items in it were completed, but not everything. Things that seem like a great idea in 2006 may not be right once 2018 gets here.

Thanks for that info, vicupstate and mallguy. Why 2018 if the vision is for 2025? The mostly likely thing that Greenville might get in the next 5-10 years would be CAT buses and high-speed rail. Light-rail is still decades away.

Edited August 23, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[mallguy]

I'd say that high-speed rail (even like the Acela Express in the Northeastern US, with 150mph speeds) won't happen in the near future; even more conventional Amtrak trains, or even numerous somewhat fast Amtrak trains, won't happen either. North Carolina and other states such as California, Illinois and Oregon sponsor Amtrak trains and are incrementally increasing train frequencies and speeds. South Carolina hasn't done either of those, and I don't see much happening to get either accomplished in the state. South Carolina politicians, in my view, get an F- on this issue; even Alabama supported an additional Amtrak train a few years ago.

I don't know what has gotten other states to increase Amtrak service levels and quality, as both Republican and Democratic politicians have supported that, although perhaps Democrats are better on the issue. Seems to me as if having a true "big city" (i.e., not Greenville size), with the large demand for travel coming from such a large travel destination and high population density along a route, is one thing that states that consistently support Amtrak have in common, although Oklahoma does and there's always that type of exception.

[carolinadude9409]

Proof: http://www.sehsr.org/

[mallguy]

Proof: http://www.sehsr.org/

I've seen that for several years now but again, it's just a plan. Having a plan takes money to implement. South Carolina has allocated almost zilch to that plan. The federal government hasn't done much, either.

Conversely, look at:

http://www.bytrain.org

This is what North Carolina is doing. Still not good enough, compared to European countries and the Northeastern US, but far ahead of SC.

From the North Carolina site:

"In 1992, the U.S. Department of Transportation designated five national high-speed rail corridors across the country. The original Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor - extending from Washington, D.C. through Richmond and Raleigh to Charlotte - has been identified as the most economically viable high speed rail corridor in the country. The USDOT has since extended the corridor to Atlanta and Macon, GA, Columbia, S.C. and Jacksonville, FL."

So it's been 14 years and South Carolina is still just evaluating the possibility of high-speed rail, as the SEHSR site states? South Carolina, get with it! (And Washington didn't do much of anything even in the few years after 1992 when Democrats controlled both Congress and the White House, so both parties stink on this issue.)

Edited August 23, 2006 by mallguy