Greenville Transit

[carolinadude9409]

Wow, those are all very good points mallguy I hadn't thought of. South Carolina does need to get with it. It seems like the only people in office for this state are redneck hillbilly's with big trucks and confederate flags on the back. Hopefully, people will elect these slackers out of office and get some real politicians in here. I wish somebody would especially get rid of lindsey graham and jim demint, who are our state senators and haven't done crap for this state. All they do is sit on their a**es all day and talk about how the war is great, which it isn't and how we need to widen more roads, which we don't and all this other stupid stuff. Instead of using the money to widen roads, why doesn't the SCDOT use it for mass transit instead. It's about the same price to put in a mile of LRT as it is a mile of road. Are they sick in the head or something?

Edited August 23, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[mallguy]

Thanks.

I think part of the reason why South Carolina doesn't have much mass transit is because it's a relatively lightly populated state that doesn't have significant population density, at least compared to the northeastern US and California.

But part of the reason certainly is because of numbskull politicians who run the place. Jim DeMint's voting record, on Amtrak at least, is pretty good, but others, such as Lindsey Graham, are a complete disaster.

Edited August 23, 2006 by mallguy

[carolinadude9409]

Put in your input: http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...g=kr-thestatetm

[carolinadude9409]

Greenville needs to jump on the bandwagon. Interesting quote from the thing posted above: What do you mean we have no business in Columbia? We have some of the nations best crack dealers, hookers, and panhandlers. Other cities can't touch our acheivments in these areas. And having a first rate college like Benedict ensures that we will continue to produce new generations of dealers, hookers, and panhandlers.

[maninthepark]

Hi! I am new to urbanplant and I just wanted to show you guys this web site

Taxi2000

[RestedTraveler]

Hi! I am new to urbanplant and I just wanted to show you guys this web site

Taxi2000

Hi maninthepark! I noticed you lurking earlier. Welcome to Urban Planet!

Thanks for that link, by the way. That looks amazing and seems to be something that would definitely fit with our forward-thinking here in Greenville. Being a private, non-shared ride does tend to go against the southerner's ability to be social though. I'll read through this more carefully, but that seems like something that would do quite well here.

[RestedTraveler]

I notice the photo from the Star-Tribune on that site. Do you know off hand if this is something that Minneapolis-St. Paul is planning on implementing?

That wouldn't happen to be Eastman Park, would it?

[RestedTraveler]

Hey maninthepark, I cannot thank you enough for providing the link to this site. The more I read into it, the more I realize that this is it.

Friends, Greenville is becoming known for being unique in quite a many ways....this is something that we should, as a community, really push. I can just envision a small network (sky web) of these throughout the Greater Greenville Metro. In fact, this should be what is pursued rather than the Tram from the Tram-Trail, in my humble opinion.

I can see it now. I need to go to the airport to fly out of town? I ride the sky web into downtown and connect to another line that goes directly to GSP. I need to go to the ballpark? I ride the sky web into downtown. I need to go to the mall? I ride the sky web into downtown and catch a connecting route to Haywood Road to the Mall or even over to the Woodruff Road area. I need to get over to CU-ICAR to work? Same way...utilize the Sky Web.

Not only could we be responsible for revolutionizing the Automotive Industry, but we could also clearly show that we're a responsible community when it comes to personal mass transit as well. It seems almost ironic, doesn't it? Yes, it does. But...we can do this!

[GvilleSC]

Hey maninthepark, I cannot thank you enough for providing the link to this site. The more I read into it, the more I realize that this is it.

Friends, Greenville is becoming known for being unique in quite a many ways....this is something that we should, as a community, really push. I can just envision a small network (sky web) of these throughout the Greater Greenville Metro. In fact, this should be what is pursued rather than the Tram from the Tram-Trail, in my humble opinion.

I can see it now. I need to go to the airport to fly out of town? I ride the sky web into downtown and connect to another line that goes directly to GSP. I need to go to the ballpark? I ride the sky web into downtown. I need to go to the mall? I ride the sky web into downtown and catch a connecting route to Haywood Road to the Mall or even over to the Woodruff Road area. I need to get over to CU-ICAR to work? Same way...utilize the Sky Web.

Not only could we be responsible for revolutionizing the Automotive Industry, but we could also clearly show that we're a responsible community when it comes to personal mass transit as well. It seems almost ironic, doesn't it? Yes, it does. But...we can do this!

I see the vision. You painted it very well... Anyone up for emailing the city?. This really would be awesome!

Edited September 1, 2006 by GvilleSC

[RestedTraveler]

I see the vision. You painted it very well... Anyone up for emailing the city?. This really would be awesome!

Ah, but I forgot the detail that all of these sky web vehicles would be purple and green with the big "g" meatball (greenville City Logo) on all four sides. Now can you see it? They'd be pretty sleek.

Can you just imagine the looks on peoples faces as they're driving along I-85 between Atlanta and Charlotte and see these things cris-crossing the interstate overhead or racing along down the median or beside the interstate?

This concept is far superior to light rail or BRT in many, many, many ways. I like the fact that the empty vehicles are sitting in a cache waiting for you to walk up to ride them, not the other way around (the passenger is queued up waiting for the vehicle to come along). No schedules to which to adhere. You just select your destination, pay your fare, and the vehicle pulls up for you to load in. How sweet is that?

How cool is it that maninthepark hit a home run with his very first post on U.P.?

Edited September 1, 2006 by RestedTraveler

[maninthepark]

I notice the photo from the Star-Tribune on that site. Do you know off hand if this is something that Minneapolis-St. Paul is planning on implementing?

That wouldn't happen to be Eastman Park, would it?

Thanks for the welcome,

From what I've read this company is in Minnesota. I think the Minneapolis pictures were just a proposal, but i read that Daluth (sp?) may get the first test track.

Instead of purple and green, how about silver with a BMW hood ornimant and Z5 on the back?

[Greenville]

Ah, but I forgot the detail that all of these sky web vehicles would be purple and green with the big "g" meatball (greenville City Logo) on all four sides. Now can you see it? They'd be pretty sleek.

Can you just imagine the looks on peoples faces as they're driving along I-85 between Atlanta and Charlotte and see these things cris-crossing the interstate overhead or racing along down the median or beside the interstate?

This concept is far superior to light rail or BRT in many, many, many ways. I like the fact that the empty vehicles are sitting in a cache waiting for you to walk up to ride them, not the other way around (the passenger is queued up waiting for the vehicle to come along). No schedules to which to adhere. You just select your destination, pay your fare, and the vehicle pulls up for you to load in. How sweet is that?

How cool is it that maninthepark hit a home run with his very first post on U.P.?

I think this sounds so awesome! I have not had a chance to look at the link much, but I take everyone's word for it that it is doable in Greenville (money-wise). If we could get something like this, it would be fantastic!

Can they ever go underground? I know they are probably designed to go above ground, but underground would be kinda neat too in parts of downtown (although it would surely increase the implementation costs).

By the way, welcome to UP, maninthepark. What a way to make your presence known on post #1!

[Chickenwing]

I could see it implemented on a smaller scale at first. Maybe on the ICAR campus?

Edited September 3, 2006 by Chickenwing

[monsoon]

Please look at the facts: federal spending on transit has increased during the Bush administration, in many years faster than for some other forms of transportation.

For 2007 the Bush Administration only alloted $1.5B for the entire USA for all passenger rail systems. This is a paultry amount considering there are $45B in requests. $1.5B is 6 days of war spending in Iraq if you want a comparison. Of this $1.5B, most of the money went to fund commitments made in prior years and only 2 new systems were funded for construction. The rules at the FTA have been changed to make getting federal funding for a transit system very very difficult, and as a result, most attempts at it simply fail. The latest casuality of this is the commuter rail line in Raleigh. They have worked of this line for 12 years, have already spent $120M on buying land and doing design work, and last year the Bush Admistration's new rules cut them off from Federal funding of this line and now the project looks dead.

[monsoon]

I've seen that for several years now but again, it's just a plan. Having a plan takes money to implement. South Carolina has allocated almost zilch to that plan. The federal government hasn't done much, either.

It's much more than a plan. For years NC has been buying up the ROW needed to make such a system possible and VA has joined it in performing the Tier II engineering study on the NC to Richmond portion of the line. In the mean time, NC has been making track improvements on the Charlotte to Raleigh portion which is already running state operated passenger rail.

This would go much faster if there were federal money available, but Bush effectively killed off most of the high speed rail plans in this country in the early 2000s. If NC and VA were not paying for this themselves, this project would be dead as well.

[Spartan]

Actually SCDOT is working on a HSR plan. I dont know if they have been buying ROW's but things are moving in that direction.

That skycar thing is interesting, but I'm not sold on it. Several cities have tried similar things and its nothing more than a tourist transportation system.

[RestedTraveler]

Actually SCDOT is working on a HSR plan. I dont know if they have been buying ROW's but things are moving in that direction.

That skycar thing is interesting, but I'm not sold on it. Several cities have tried similar things and its nothing more than a tourist transportation system.

The People Movers in both Detroit, Michigan and Morgantown, WV are very similar, yet they're not as much of a personal transportation system as this could be. You still share the cars in Detroit and Morgantown. I don't think either is a tourist transportation system. Morgantown's, in fact, is there to connect the two parts of the campus of WVU together.

[interestedexpat]

Let's not leave this Taxi2000 idea. I'm with RT and G'ville. This is very cool.

It would be risky to be one of the first cities to try it. I like the idea of a couple of smaller attempts first. Put one around ICAR. You drive to work. But you get around campus via Taxi2000. Perhaps put one running around downtown. You drive downtown for a ballgame or concert. But you take Taxi2000 to the restaurant 15 blocks away.

From what I can tell, the really cool part is it would be so easy to expand. Put a little system in downtown as a tourist attraction. It works. And boom you expand it right around the city. No need for lengthy right of way acquisition. No need for massive environmental impact studies. Just put poles in the median of every major street. A small drop off station at every major intersection. And, one night when everyone is asleep, attach tracks to the poles. Everyone in G'ville wakes up one morning and - smack - there's a really cool mass transit system. Can you imagine? This would be best if no announcement was made and so everyone was caught by surprise!

Edited September 4, 2006 by interestedexpat

[monsoon]

^We have had several extensive discussions on these PRTs and the consensus is, "ain't never gonna happen". They don't have any realistic studies to show they actually work, they are much more expensive to maintain, and people won't use it if they have to wait for the next car. And the fact that it is not federally approved means the Feds won't throw any money into it.

If Greenville wants to go this route, something like the monobeam system, which was developed just down the road in Charleston and there is a scale model operating there, might be just the ticket. We have an Old Thread on the system. They were getting ready to work with a community, at the time most likely Charleston, to build a real system, but then 2001 came and Bush took office and the expected federal funding for it dried up. I am not sure if they are still in business or not.

It would be great to see a SC developed transit system operating in SC.

[mallguy]

It's much more than a plan. For years NC has been buying up the ROW needed to make such a system possible and VA has joined it in performing the Tier II engineering study on the NC to Richmond portion of the line. In the mean time, NC has been making track improvements on the Charlotte to Raleigh portion which is already running state operated passenger rail.

That is true but the federal government's involvement with high-speed rail in the Southeast has been negligible, despite grandiose plans such as the Southeast HSR project. States such as North Carolina, Virginia, California, Michigan, etc. have taken the lead and have done incremental rail system development, thank goodness, but a few states adding a few trains here and there and slowly increasing train speeds is a far cry from what the Southeast HSR plan calls for.

So although the SE HSR plan was initially developed in the early 1990s, it is now 2006 and the only increased/materially faster intercity train service in the South that has been put in operation since the early 1990s is a pair of elderly equipment that shuttles back and forth between Charlotte and Raleigh, with one train extended to NY, although some NE trains to Richmond have been made a little bit faster.

The US national failure to build HSR like Europe has isn't exclusively a Republican or Bush failure; nothing much happened for it during previous administrations, both Democratic and Republican. The US intercity passenger train system really started falling apart during the 1950s, but neither Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Bush II nor Congress during any of those administrations has really done much, other than creating Amtrak and keeping it on life support starting in 1971.

Edited September 5, 2006 by mallguy

[monsoon]

The US national failure to build HSR like Europe has isn't exclusively a Republican or Bush failure;

It had a spear thrown through its heart since the days of the Bush administration. Several projects were just getting off the ground by 2000 and have languished, as you pointed out, due to lack of any federal funding. If you want to read more about the NC Rail Rail, we have an extensive thread on it here on UrbanPlanet.

[mallguy]

Thanks for the tip on the other thread, which is most interesting. I'll dig up some more info on the SE HSR project, which never received any significant amount of funding since it was announced (and expanded) in the early 1990s, before Bush. In the meantime, here is some information about US rail funding over the past years. Not trying to excuse Bush's anti-Amtrak behavior, which I find appalling, but no US administration has ever provided funding for high-speed rail and/or Amtrak necessary to build high-speed rail corridors as contemplated by the Southeast and other high-speed rail plans:

http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php/resources/list/C33/

And for Bush's Amtrak/transit budget proposals, he has tried to gut Amtrak repeatedly (but has failed, in part due to resistance from Congress), but his transit budgets have been better. Do a Yahoo search for "Bush transit 2006" and some articles appear, such as these two:

Article {sodEmoji.|} Bush Budget Proposes Transit Increase with More Funding for SAFETEA Bill.

Price: $9.95 {sodEmoji.|} Excerpt: "The Bush administration is proposing a modest DOT budget in fiscal year (FY) 2006 with some spending increases in transit programs. On Feb. 7, Transportation Secretary..."

January 5, 2006 Final FY 2006 Transit Funding Set at $8.5 Billion: A New High for Transit (PDF)

http://www.apta.com/government_affairs/was...s/2006jan05.pdf

Thus if we think that things will significantly improve once Bush is gone, I think that is wishful thinking, based on past experience. Again, I'm not trying to say he's good for transit/Amtrak, but the US track record, under previous administrations as well, is not that good anyhow, and under Bush, transit hasn't done as badly as Amtrak has.

Edited September 5, 2006 by mallguy

[carolinadude9409]

edit

Edited September 5, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[carolinadude9409]

For 2007 the Bush Administration only alloted $1.5B for the entire USA for all passenger rail systems. This is a paultry amount considering there are $45B in requests. $1.5B is 6 days of war spending in Iraq if you want a comparison. Of this $1.5B, most of the money went to fund commitments made in prior years and only 2 new systems were funded for construction. The rules at the FTA have been changed to make getting federal funding for a transit system very very difficult, and as a result, most attempts at it simply fail. The latest casuality of this is the commuter rail line in Raleigh. They have worked of this line for 12 years, have already spent $120M on buying land and doing design work, and last year the Bush Admistration's new rules cut them off from Federal funding of this line and now the project looks dead.

Thank you. Currently, the SCDOT does not have enough federal funding or state funding to implement something of this magnitude. Hopefully sometime in the future though, they'll be able too. Man, I can't wait until this November to watch the republican party fall apart. Has anybody noticed gas prices have been dropping a ton lately? That's due to the oil companies lowering the prices on purpose to help the republican party. Hopefully, it doesn't work.

Edited September 5, 2006 by carolinadude9409

[monsoon]

January 5, 2006 Final FY 2006 Transit Funding Set at $8.5 Billion: A New High for Transit (PDF)

http://www.apta.com/government_affairs/was...s/2006jan05.pdf

Thus if we think that things will significantly improve once Bush is gone, I think that is wishful thinking, based on past experience. Again, I'm not trying to say he's good for transit/Amtrak, but the US track record, under previous administrations as well, is not that good anyhow, and under Bush, transit hasn't done as badly as Amtrak has.

You should read those things more closely the vast majority of that money went to build roads. (which Bush loves) In the 2006 Bush Budget, only $1.3B was approved for all passenger (non Amtrak) rail transit in the USA. We discussed this last year here. They approved only 4 new systems out of 25 requested. It has all been discussed here in the Urban Transit section of UrbanPlanet. There is a pinned topic in that section that is several months old where the 2007 FTA budget is under discussion. Please take these discussions there. This topic is supposed to be about Greenville light rail.