Greenville Transit

[Spartan]

I believe now is the time to start putting the infrastructure in place BEFORE the density gets here. Not only is it foresight, but it'll save money in the long run too because it'd be less expensive to put in place today than it would be 30 years from now.

When will you be running for County County, RT? I'm going to move to Gville and vote. We need to elect more officials that understand this simple concept in Greenville and accross the State too.

[silverseale]

Did anyone else hear this segment on NPR the other day?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6582982

[Spartan]

No but that is exciting. Sounds like something that could work from the Simpsonville/Fountain Inn area into downtown.

[g-man430]

More info: http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...NEWS01/70106002

[GvilleSC]

More info: http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...NEWS01/70106002

I'm glad that it's being looked into. If our bus system continues to struggle, we'll never have a case for light rail. And if we're going to not struggle, then change needs to be made in some form or fashion. The government is a good place to start, because they have the power to do something about it.

[Spartan]

I am very suprised at that. Judy Dudley is very good at what she does, and given that she has nothing to work with, that is saying alot.

[g-man430]

The GTA could really learn something from Clemson Area Transit. That's all I have to say about all of this.

[GvilleSC]

The GTA could really learn something from Clemson Area Transit. That's all I have to say about all of this.

I love that I have the opportunity, while being at school, to be a part of the CAT bus system. They've got things right over there and make it so easy to not have a car or just never use it! And while GTA has a different crowd to work with, I definitely think that some parallels could be drawn between the two systems and things could be learned.

[g-man430]

I am in the same boat as you GvilleSC, seeing how I attend Tri-County Technical College and will be transferring to Clemson soon. I am glad there is a bus system in that area where I can simply just park, get out of my car, and ride anywhere in the Clemson vicinity for free.

[Spartan]

CAT is a good (ok, great) system, but it is unique in that it has 17,000 students who pay for it in addition to the City of Clemson, Central, Pendleton, Seneca, and Anderson County who all pay money into the system. They benefit by having the University as a leader and the area having one central place that a lot of people need to get to, where parking is not at all convenient, and where the bus drops you off closer to the core of campus than parking lots allow... all of which makes getting choise riders on the bussesan easier task. Another plus to CAT is that anything that is built in the City of Clemson must consider ways to incorporate transit into its design, which to my knowledge is unique in the Upstate, if not SC. My point here is that the CATbus is great for a reason- community support.

GTA will have a very hard time emulating CAT for those very reasons. Of course I want to see GTA succeed, but it will take the community and more importantly Greenville County coming up with more money to pay for it. Perhaps a local option sales tax is in order? With 400,000 people that should more than pay for GTA's needs.

[Greenville]

I would be curious to know how much GTA actually makes in fares. Since the buses only seem to have a few people on board at one time, my guess is that the money GTA receives from fares is a very low percentage. So my question is this: what would happen if GTA went totally free? I know it sounds crazy, but with improved marketing and some strategic financing by city and county government, maybe it could work. Then, we might even have the ridership numbers necessary to receive some funds from the federal and/or state government for light rail. Thoughts?

[Spartan]

GTA made just shy of $530,000 from farebox revenues in 2004, according to the National Transit Database. Since ridership has increased, then that number is probably higher for 2006.

[GvilleSC]

GTA made just shy of $530,000 from farebox revenues in 2004, according to the National Transit Database. Since ridership has increased, then that number is probably higher for 2006.

That's a little more than $1 per person in the county. I'd be all for it going fare free. Charge each resident two bucks. If they benefit from their payment, then great, if not, it's their loss.

The thing you mentioned Spartan about incorporating transit into the design is really interesting and great! I'd love for Greenville to do something of the sort.

Edited January 7, 2007 by GvilleSC

[Spartan]

Thats not a bad idea. $2 might be 'affordable'

[monsoon]

If you want to kill off bus service, the best way to do it is to raise the fares. If a city can't sustain a bus system, there is no way it will ever be in the position of running a LRT or CR because both do not operate from what is just collected in the fare box.

[RestedTraveler]

That's an excellent idea, really. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be willing to pay an extra $1 to $5 in my property taxes or personal property taxes each year if the GTA were to be sustained from that and the buses were to operate fare-free. Presumably, as the county population (and tax-base) increase, so do the revenues to support growth of the transit system as needed, too. Without getting into the nitty-gritty details, this seems to be something that's doable.

[breed]

That's an excellent idea, really. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be willing to pay an extra $1 to $5 in my property taxes or personal property taxes each year if the GTA were to be sustained from that and the buses were to operate fare-free. Presumably, as the county population (and tax-base) increase, so do the revenues to support growth of the transit system as needed, too. Without getting into the nitty-gritty details, this seems to be something that's doable.

If I was able to supplant driving my own vehicle with riding the bus, I'd be willing to pay much more than that out of my property taxes.

[mallguy]

I would be curious to know how much GTA actually makes in fares. Since the buses only seem to have a few people on board at one time, my guess is that the money GTA receives from fares is a very low percentage. So my question is this: what would happen if GTA went totally free? I know it sounds crazy, but with improved marketing and some strategic financing by city and county government, maybe it could work. Then, we might even have the ridership numbers necessary to receive some funds from the federal and/or state government for light rail. Thoughts?

I would agree with you; with contributions from employers (such as ones that have a high percentage of workers taking the bus), it could be done; the local gov't is so pathetic on this issue that I don't have any hope of getting its help. Charlotte has a fare-free system on some routes uptown, and some European cities I've lived in have this.

[linkerjpatrick]

It's an amazing model but ironically companies can do a lot better "giving away" things for free. For example Microsoft giving away Internet Explorer in the 90's and cell phone companies "giving" phones provided you sign up for a service plan and of course their is radio and network television. Heck at one time people would have paid big bucks to access a forum like this.

[monsoon]

..... Charlotte has a fare-free system on some routes uptown, and some European cities I've lived in have this.

Charlotte/Mecklenburg County has a 0.5% mass transit sales tax (of 7.5% total) that is currently generating about $62M/year. Of that about 60% goes towards subsidizing the bus service. However the only free service is the Gold Rush Trolley in downtown.

[Spartan]

That's an excellent idea, really. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be willing to pay an extra $1 to $5 in my property taxes or personal property taxes each year if the GTA were to be sustained from that and the buses were to operate fare-free. Presumably, as the county population (and tax-base) increase, so do the revenues to support growth of the transit system as needed, too. Without getting into the nitty-gritty details, this seems to be something that's doable.

And with the increased funds, you could argue that more people will be able to be served by transit, since they will have the money to run the routes near where they live.

The main problem is that people who aren't curren't served by, or don't want transit, iwll be opposed to this. "Why should I pay for this when I don't benefit from it and nobody uses it." Also, people in the rural areas of the northern and southern parts of the county will oppose it because it actually won't benefit them, but their property taxes would go up. Even though this is a trivial amount of money, people will still oppose it.

[Chickenwing]

I am intrigued by this idea and would consider it. Oh, and I hate taxes.

[RestedTraveler]

The main problem is that people who aren't curren't served by, or don't want transit, iwll be opposed to this. "Why should I pay for this when I don't benefit from it and nobody uses it."

I'd say, "Give up one damned latte per year, and stop your whining."

[gs3]

I'd say, "Give up one damned latte per year, and stop your whining."

I'd give EVERY single latte I buy in a year to fund light rail / rapid rail, but I wouldn't give up a single one to fund buses. Here's why:

I'm all for public transit, mainly light rail, because these systems:

1. Pollute less than buses

2. Run on their own right of way (usually, if not on their own right of way, traffic yeilds to light rail), thus scheduled stop times can be maintained with greater accuracy

3. Are quicker between point A and point B than buses (no stoplights, no traffic)

4. Usually require fewer transfers than buses

5. Much smoother stops and starts (and fewer of them)

6. Overall more reliable than buses

I don't find bus transit a very attractive means of transport and think many people feel the same. Many times this gets called an elistest point of view, but I disagree. Bus transit simply is not as attractive as light rail.

Any time I'm in a city with any kind of rail system, I normally ride it. As for buses, I don't step foot on. The same cross section of society rides both. Bus systems simply are not as appealing to me due to the reasons I named above. The U.S. should bite the bullet, take lessons from our European counterparts and establish light rail systems in all major metros, and quit dinking around with bus systems. I don't know any rail systems in a US city that isn't successful, but I can name numerous cities bus systems that are in jeopardy.

[Chickenwing]

I'd say, "Give up one damned latte per year, and stop your whining."

Do people in places like Pelzer and Marietta know what a latte is?

In all seriousness, I would probably be ok with it, since I live near the urban areas. The increasing price of urban area properties is going to push alot of the service industry people farther away from their jobs. We need something to accomodate them.

But, I can also see understandable opposition from people in the more rural parts of the county, who it may not benefit.