IN-PROGRESS: "Iway" 195 Relocation/Wash. Bridge

[Garris]

let the cheering/sighs of relief begin...

here is the 'full' article from today's Projo:

http://www.projo.com/news/content/Point_st...7G.2c4eec8.html

Great!

It's going to be interesting to see what effect that new connection has. The Wickenden/Pt St Bridge insection is already hugely overcongested, so I wonder if that will make things worse at rush hour, or possibly better.

Personally, I wonder how it will change my relationship with the West End. Living on the East Side, I've never quite had such a "direct" link to that part of the city before. If I wanted to go Westward, I had to go through downtown or North via Smith St, more or less. I can't wait to see if I use this more...

- Garris

PS: The following is extremely off topic, and if you wish to reply, copy and paste it in the off-topic lounge forum to do so. Thanks!

Just to make a really dramatic analogy, but one that should illustrate my point, imagine if doctors hours were legislated lower. All of a sudden more doctors would be necessary. Because of more of them, the ones there get paid less. So some of the better doctors choose another line of work is more lucrative (maybe going to work for a malpractice law firm, for instance). So now instead of a well qualified but tired doctor, you get a fresh idiot.

Your analogy does make your point quite well, but for accuracy sake, as a physician, I needed to point out for educational purposes to the masses that this does not happen in the real world of medicine whatsoever.

While we may lack a "universal" health coverage system in the US, make no mistake that modern medicine is essentially "socialized." Reimbursement for almost everything is set by the government for medicare and medicaid services (as well as the VA), and private insurers take their cues almost directly from this reimbursement. So supply and demand, work hours, etc have zero impact on what certain doctors make per patient or how medical students choose fields.

This is how the real world works: Primary care doctors, geriatricians (care for the elderly), and psychiatrists are all in enormous demand. However, these specialties are also amongst the lowest fixed cost reimbursing of all fields of medicine by the government and, thus, insurers. Because of this, they can't make a decent (for physicians, anyway) income without pulling enormous hours to see a high volume (this is why your primary care doctor will only see you for 5 minutes). Medical students (with six figure debt loads) see that despite high demand, these fields have low salaries and long hours and don't choose them, pushing up demand even more, which doesn't alter reimbursement one iota. It only creates a service crisis.

Thus, because of fixed reimbursement, if you were to arbitrarily lower the hours of any doctors, all you would do is lower their individual salaries and create a greater demand that wouldn't be filled by free market because no one would choose to be a doctor because the salaries had all been cut. And you wouldn't get a flood of "idiots" into the medicine either, because the standards of admission into medical schools (both in terms of academics and time dedicated) is so high...

This government controlled reimbursement system is starting to create a lot of anxiety in medicine because of the potential for huge, double digit percentages of people's reimbursement to be altered almost yearly at the whim of political rewritings of medicare and medicaid law...

[Cotuit]

This bridge has been closed so long that it pre-dates GoogleMaps:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...mp;t=h&om=1

The bridge is not drawn in on the GoogleMap. It's been closed since before I lived here. I was looking at the map because I have no idea where it ends up on the West Side. The impact on traffic through vast areas of the city could be great with this re-opening. Currently from the JD to Federal Hill it is almost a literal ya cahnt get the'ah from he'ah situation. Unless you know the pattern and direction of every street in the JD, you're sunk.

[TheAnk]

I can't stand the "Service Road 7" and "Service Road 8" situation..

First of all, its ridiculous that these two roads aren't named.. Are you telling me there isn't some manufacturing guy from the turn of the 20th century that they name these road after? Ridiculous.. Or why not a popular criminal? That would be the Rhode Island way..

Second, why are they one ways?

That bridge empties into Upper South Providence.. There is some mild renovations going on there, but nothing special.. The housing stock is interesting, its on the same age swath as the victorians on Fed Hill and Armory area.. Possible investment opty with this bridge though.. Drove through there checking it out.. Very dark, poorly lit.. Increased traffic, however, means less crime.. So I think if the highway noise isn't TOO bad, could be revitalized.. Very little retail though.. I guess with better ped access could just go down town..

[Garris]

That bridge empties into Upper South Providence.. There is some mild renovations going on there, but nothing special.. The housing stock is interesting, its on the same age swath as the victorians on Fed Hill and Armory area.. Possible investment opty with this bridge though.. Drove through there checking it out.. Very dark, poorly lit.. Increased traffic, however, means less crime.. So I think if the highway noise isn't TOO bad, could be revitalized.. Very little retail though.. I guess with better ped access could just go down town..

Great description of that neighborhood. It's kind of "on the bubble." It could go either way. It's got some great stock and some nearby projects and crime as well.

Given the huge number of people who work at the neighboring hospitals, I've day-dreamed what could happen there if Brown/Lifespan were to do a low-interest loan or subsidy program to encourage their employees to buy and live there similar to what Yale did around its campus and hospital in New Haven.

- Garris

[TheAnk]

Great description of that neighborhood. It's kind of "on the bubble." It could go either way. It's got some great stock and some nearby projects and crime as well.

Given the huge number of people who work at the neighboring hospitals, I've day-dreamed what could happen there if Brown/Lifespan were to do a low-interest loan or subsidy program to encourage their employees to buy and live there similar to what Yale did around its campus and hospital in New Haven.

- Garris

Agreed.. It definately piqued my interest.. Its one of those sections of PVD that should be far better than it is.. My opinion is that it is too isolated, and this bridge could be the difference.. The other thing that I think stifles the area is the fact that there is no connection to Westminster! So you have this area with great housing, but almost completely inaccessible except through Lower South Providence.. Not good times, bad times.. Also, having the onramp for 195 does not help, but that will go away, yes?

[Cotuit]

That bridge empties into Upper South Providence.. There is some mild renovations going on there, but nothing special.. The housing stock is interesting, its on the same age swath as the victorians on Fed Hill and Armory area.. Possible investment opty with this bridge though.. Drove through there checking it out.. Very dark, poorly lit.. Increased traffic, however, means less crime.. So I think if the highway noise isn't TOO bad, could be revitalized.. Very little retail though.. I guess with better ped access could just go down town..

Would you please not tell people about this area? It's on my secret list of places to live. Now everyone's gonna want to live there!

[Jerry2]

There is a lot of crime there due to the "Clowntown" projects on Prairie Avenue and the low-income "townhouses" on Point St. Couple that with the homeless kitchen, the methadone clinics, and the crackhouse at the corner of Pine and Cahir Street and you've a got a great place to move to......I think this area is by far the worst in PVD and has a long way to go. Don't forget @ Jovan's on a Sat. when 500 people exit into the surrounding streets.

[Garris]

Drove across the new Point St bridge today! I still don't think it's a faster way to the West End than taking 195 to the RIH exit and crossing the RIH campus, but most people I'm sure don't want to do that.

They seemingly did a very nice job on the overpass. Some different skyline angles from there too...

There is a lot of crime there due to the "Clowntown" projects on Prairie Avenue and the low-income "townhouses" on Point St. Couple that with the homeless kitchen, the methadone clinics, and the crackhouse at the corner of Pine and Cahir Street and you've a got a great place to move to......I think this area is by far the worst in PVD and has a long way to go. Don't forget @ Jovan's on a Sat. when 500 people exit into the surrounding streets.

Can't argue with much of this... The neighborhood has a ways to go...

- Garris

[Liamlunchtray]

I just went over the Point Street over pass twice. Fan friggen tastic. Tokyo on wickenden to my house in the armory = 7mins. Booyah!

[TheAnk]

I guess what I mean is... The area has promise.. It is not good there, its terrible there.. But the right mix of stuff could happen there for a turnaround.. You need to see an area ripe for change, not an area that has already changed.. See the plusses, and view the future if certain variables change..

Remember when Dexter TG Park was one of the biggest drug spot in the city? Why did that change?

This bridge and ensuing increased traffic and access could be that catalyst, who knows.. The stock is good, but the challenges are 195 on ramp (moving I assume), The Proj, Dark lighting (easy fix), Travellers Aid (no luck).

What is Clowntown? Jovans?

[dgreco]

I just went over the Point Street over pass twice. Fan friggen tastic. Tokyo on wickenden to my house in the armory = 7mins. Booyah!

how is tokyo, I was going to go the other night, but ended up going to sawadee.

[Jerry2]

What is Clowntown? Jovans?

Jovans is a nightclub on Portland Street that empties several hundred people into the surrounding streets every weekend night. Clowntown is the HUD owned projects all over that area of Prairie and Point.

[ruchele]

Clowntown is the HUD owned projects all over that area of Prairie and Point.

Actually, what folks call "Clowntown" is a small housing development in the three square blocks between Friendship and Pine Streets, and Myrtle and Somerset, just in from Broad. It is listed as owned by "Inter-tribal Indian Village Housing" which I think is somehow connected to the Rhode Island Indian Council (although I'm not honestly sure who the "Inter-tribal Indian Village" folks are).

It's called Clowntown because of the candy colors of the buildings, which are, supposedly, traditional Narragansett tribal colors of some kind.

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any HUD-owned housing in that neighborhood. There are quite a few low- and moderate-income housing developments owned by non-profit developers. Omni and SWAP both own a lot in the area, but I'm not sure who the partners are in the ownership of the Lockwood developments.

[dgreco]

Actually, what folks call "Clowntown" is a small housing development in the three square blocks between Friendship and Pine Streets, and Myrtle and Somerset, just in from Broad. It is listed as owned by "Inter-tribal Indian Village Housing" which I think is somehow connected to the Rhode Island Indian Council (although I'm not honestly sure who the "Inter-tribal Indian Village" folks are).

It's called Clowntown because of the candy colors of the buildings, which are, supposedly, traditional Narragansett tribal colors of some kind.

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any HUD-owned housing in that neighborhood. There are quite a few low- and moderate-income housing developments owned by non-profit developers. Omni and SWAP both own a lot in the area, but I'm not sure who the partners are in the ownership of the Lockwood developments.

its like history class

[ruchele]

its like history class

It's just the facts, ma'am.

[dgreco]

It's just the facts, ma'am.

should I be offended I was just called ma'am ?

[urbie]

While we may lack a "universal" health coverage system in the US, make no mistake that modern medicine is essentially "socialized." Reimbursement for almost everything is set by the government for medicare and medicaid services (as well as the VA), and private insurers take their cues almost directly from this reimbursement.

My late uncle, who owned an independent drugstore for 40 years or so (until he was eventually bought out by CVS), said the same thing about prescriptions -- he got a fixed amount over his cost, so he made the same $2.00 (or whatever) regardless of whether it was a $5.00 or a $100 'scrip.

When CVS came into the store one day and made his son (to whom he had transferred ownership) an offer to buy the business, and son had turned the guy down, Uncle Nick said to him, "Andy, when I opened this store, I ran the place. Then, when I passed it along to you, you ran the place. Now, the insurance companies run it. That guy from CVS will be back in a week or so, and he'll sweeten the pot a little -- when he does that, you sell him this store!"

It's all about third-party payments -- they're set at a level that made it impossible to make any money selling prescription drugs anymore. Not being able to compete with the big stores selling other merchandise (they'd sell a bottle of shampoo for $3.95 that he was charging $6.00 for, because he couldn't buy in quantity), he had to sell out....

Urb

[Garris]

-- he got a fixed amount over his cost, so he made the same $2.00 (or whatever) regardless of whether it was a $5.00 or a $100 'scrip.

...Now, the insurance companies run it.

Great story, and great parallel. The same thing has happened, of course, to the individual practioner. You can't easily "hang out a shingle" anymore, and the only way to do well is to combine practioners and gain economies of scale.

I'm certainly no economics expert, but the way I see things, this system eventually has to implode. You've got several competing things going on:

- The public is demanding ever more complex care as an entitlement...

- The public doesn't want to pay for that care...

- The liability to providers for not providing that care is huge...

- Costs are going up, but reimbursement is fixed in a socialized fashion...

- Certain key elements of the system (physicians choice of fields, drug development, technology development, etc) are market based, and require people to be able to recoup costs and have the potential to make profit...

An early example of where things are heading in a broader fashion is the flu vaccine shortage that happens every year. There are only a handful of companies left that make the vaccine because producing it barely makes any money. These companies don't do things out of the goodness of their hearts. They barely made money because:

- Fixed reimbursement was barely covering costs

- The legal liability is enormous (with people blaming everything from neuromuscular conditions to autism on vaccines)

On a local scale this has impact too. Without going into specifics, it's getting increasingly difficult as a physican to find several specialists to refer some patients to for certain conditions because these specialists are leaving RI due to local low reimbursement issues and certain high liability issues unique to the state. We have to send people to Boston, which for a metro of our size with the hospitals we have, is pretty embarrassing.

The future of medicine is going to be really rocky as, with so much of our infrastructure (social, economic, political, medical, structural, material, etc), the bill for decades worth of slapping expensive band-aids on much bigger problems to "be handled another day" comes due...

- Garris

[jencoleslaw]

PS: The following is extremely off topic, and if you wish to reply, copy and paste it in the off-topic lounge forum to do so.

i love it when garris talks all doctor.

yay overpass. can't wait to drive on it.

[Cotuit]

Great story, and great parallel. The same thing has happened, of course, to the individual practioner. You can't easily "hang out a shingle" anymore, and the only way to do well is to combine practioners and gain economies of scale.

I'm certainly no economics expert, but the way I see things, this system eventually has to implode. You've got several competing things going on:

- The public is demanding ever more complex care as an entitlement...

- The public doesn't want to pay for that care...

- The liability to providers for not providing that care is huge...

- Costs are going up, but reimbursement is fixed in a socialized fashion...

- Certain key elements of the system (physicians choice of fields, drug development, technology development, etc) are market based, and require people to be able to recoup costs and have the potential to make profit...

An early example of where things are heading in a broader fashion is the flu vaccine shortage that happens every year. There are only a handful of companies left that make the vaccine because producing it barely makes any money. These companies don't do things out of the goodness of their hearts. They barely made money because:

- Fixed reimbursement was barely covering costs

- The legal liability is enormous (with people blaming everything from neuromuscular conditions to autism on vaccines)

On a local scale this has impact too. Without going into specifics, it's getting increasingly difficult as a physican to find several specialists to refer some patients to for certain conditions because these specialists are leaving RI due to local low reimbursement issues and certain high liability issues unique to the state. We have to send people to Boston, which for a metro of our size with the hospitals we have, is pretty embarrassing.

The future of medicine is going to be really rocky as, with so much of our infrastructure (social, economic, political, medical, structural, material, etc), the bill for decades worth of slapping expensive band-aids on much bigger problems to "be handled another day" comes due...

- Garris

The good thing is, now that the Point Street Overpass is open, I can actually get to RIH.

yay overpass. can't wait to drive on it.

I just went over it, then got lost, almost ended up on 195. And almost scored some crack in Clowntown I think.

[dgreco]

Once they finish the relocation and build the waterfront park, are they planning anything else for india point park besides the bridge? Also I was looking on maps.google, and when you see pier rd to tangent rd, and then it looks just like a dirt field, do they plan on developing that?

[mental757]

PROJO: New Overpass makes a point of easier access"

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo-20...r.57bf5f17.html

PROJO: "DOT finally gets the point across (w/pic)"

http://www.projo.com/news/content/Point_St...U5.2ce26b8.html

[eltron]

Garris and all,

sorry to disappoint, but now that the point street overpass is open, the onramp from Friendship Street to 195 will very soon close, putting every single person from the south and west sides looking to go east on 195 on Point Street to Wickendon...not a good solution, methinks...

but I'm not sure who the partners are in the ownership of the Lockwood developments.

Lockwood is PHA, with Winn managing them. If you've seen the improvement of Wiggins Village, you'll expect the same improvement from Lockwood...

[ruchele]

Lockwood is PHA, with Winn managing them.

That's what I thought, but I didn't want to say so without knowing for sure. For reasons I'm sure you understand, eltron, I get a little cranky when there are faulty assumptions about "subsidized" housing.

[ruchele]

now that the point street overpass is open, the onramp from Friendship Street to 195 will very soon close, putting every single person from the south and west sides looking to go east on 195 on Point Street to Wickendon...not a good solution, methinks...

In fact, that is a really crappy solution, no matter how much I hate that onramp (or rather, I hate people's inability to grasp the concept of "yielding" and "merging").

Where will the final onramp from the south side to 195 be?