Drinking Beer in Charlotte

[kermit]

Some serious wisdom from Tommy:

Imagine Copper in cans for $4.50 for 6 or a pint for $2!  It could become our considerably yummier version of NattyBoh, Old Style or Iron City.

Edited May 4, 2017 by kermit

[archiham04]

Rumor in avl is that ww went for 500m


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[grodney]

Article on stores pulling Wicked Weed from their shelves, including Brawley and Salud: http://www.charlottefive.com/anheuser-busch-wicked-weed/

 

 

 

 

[InSouthPark]

1 hour ago, archiham04 said:

Rumor in avl is that ww went for 500m

This is what happens when you start a brewery with millionaires that are out to make money, not beer.  The financial partner was Rick Guthy (brother of the Guthy-Renker founder) who retired as COO of Guthy-Renker after a long career there.  Made a lot of money (it's also NOT true that he is worth 500mil or anywhere near that...that's his brother), invested in Wicked Weed as a managing partner (not a silent partner), and cashed out while the money was hot.  I am sure Walt and Luke had little say in this as I am sure Guthy owned a vast majority of the company and Luke and Walt just made the beer.  But I for one, won't support the evil empire anymore, with one exception:  The Funkatorium.  There is no where else around where you can try so many good sours in one spot.  But stuff off the shelf?  Nope. Not anymore.  I see the crap A/B does, just in my little harris teeter.  They pressure the store for fridge space while anything not from their distributor sits warm on the floor.   

 

[cjd5050]

1 hour ago, grodney said:

Article on stores pulling Wicked Weed from their shelves, including Brawley and Salud: http://www.charlottefive.com/anheuser-busch-wicked-weed/

 

Here is the sad thing in all of this.  Places in Charlotte or North Carolina pulling WW does not matter at all.  For every shelf it's removed from in NC it's going to be added to 15 up and down the east coast.  

All that said, there is a part of me that is happy these sales are happening.  Looking at the glass half full, as A/B buys these breweries and even if they reduce the quality by half after they are still putting out beer that is 400% better than the main line products.  They are getting more and more people to drink better beer.  This in turn means that more people are willing to try local beers as they have developed a taste for them.  

Here is the thing that's also a positive.  Both Stone and Ballast Point started in 96.  Stone exploded first and BP was still in the homebrew store when I found them in the early 2000s.  Took 20 years for BP to cash out with an IPO.  It took about 20 years for Goose Island to grow and be purchased.  Wicked Weed was purchased in less than 10 years.  

The lifespan from founded to cash out has been halved and it took less than 30 years to do that.  This means that you're going to see a LOT of money pour into local beer in the hopes of cashing out.  It's going to be like the dot.com bubble or the app revolution.  Everyone wants in for the payday.  Most will never become big enough to cash out but that does not matter for us.  Delicious beer will be made along the way.

 

 

 

 

[InSouthPark]

^^ Why do we need InBev to be putting out better beers? They already produce the worlds best selling beers.  They don't need to take over the craft beers as well. Well unless you like monopolies.  InBev's goal is to drive every competitor either out of business or buy them. There is nothing good about InBev buying anyone. 

[cjd5050]

24 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

^^ Why do we need InBev to be putting out better beers? They already produce the worlds best selling beers.  They don't need to take over the craft beers as well. Well unless you like monopolies.  InBev's goal is to drive every competitor either out of business or buy them. There is nothing good about InBev buying anyone. 

If anything we're driving away from monopolies.  When I was in my early 20s it was really A/B, Miller and Coors to pick from.  Now you have over 100 breweries to pick from in a grocery store.  

A/B is not going to be able to continue to purchase every Wicked Weed or Goose Island that pops up.  They are also making it more and more difficult by the day to return to 3 brands in the grocery store with every purchase.  Like I said before, for every Wicked Weed that's is sold there are 20 trying to be that.  

Honest question.  How old are you?  The reason I am asking is those ~30 and maybe ~40 have been around craft beer for most of their adult drinking.  Those 40+ have not and it takes some sort of conversion process to have them give up flavored water.  Many times it's a friend who brings a nice 6 pack rather than a crappy 12 pack to a party.  But this does not happen everywhere as how many 25 year olds drink with 45 year olds?  

My point here is it's a process to get people off flavored water.  If it takes making Wicked Weed sours homogenized for the masses to get people willing to try a really funky sour from a local brewer on tap...then I am all for it.  

[archiham04]

^^I am with cjd.  I totally respect Mike Brawley for his decision and understand where the hate is coming from, but I think there is room in the market for local micro craft beers, low quality macro craft beers, high quality macro craft beers.

[grodney]

43 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

^^I am with cjd.  I totally respect Mike Brawley for his decision and understand where the hate is coming from, but I think there is room in the market for local micro craft beers, low quality macro craft beers, high quality macro craft beers.

Not me, but to each his own.  I know AB and WW won't feel the loss of my business, financially.  Nor the loss of 100s or 1000s of others, because they'll have so many more customers now.  But hopefully (for me) they feel it from articles, and from social media, and from stores not stocking them, and from Wooden Robot and others pulling out from the WW funk event, etc.

I don't think there's room for macro anything, but again, to each his own.

p.s. There are two issues for me.....1) I don't want any money going to A-B that could be going to local guys (just from a Buy Local perspective), and 2) A-B uses predatory practices to squeeze true craft off the shelves, among other things....and I'm not going to support that in any form.

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by grodney

[InSouthPark]

41 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Honest question.  How old are you?  The reason I am asking is those ~30 and maybe ~40 have been around craft beer for most of their adult drinking.  Those 40+ have not and it takes some sort of conversion process to have them give up flavored water.  Many times it's a friend who brings a nice 6 pack rather than a crappy 12 pack to a party.  But this does not happen everywhere as how many 25 year olds drink with 45 year olds?  

41yrs. Once pop the cap happened in 2005 I was a full on craft drinker. Before that I was into whatever was not Miller/Bud/Coors...like New Castle, Guinness, etc. Even in college in the 90's, while we drank plenty of swill, but my roommates and I always hit up the nicer places with good selections as a treat when mom sent some extra money.  As for a conversion process, I find almost all of my friends (most the same age as me) all drink craft. Nobody I know brings a 12 pack of Bud Light to my pool.  It's silly to think age has anything to do with it. I've been to pool parties in Southend with the "young kids". Its cheap blue moon cans and miller lite that most are pounding, not craft. Heck when I was at the last knights game, it was youngsters pounding cheap swill and the old folks drinking the expensive stuff. 

50 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

^^I am with cjd.  I totally respect Mike Brawley for his decision and understand where the hate is coming from, but I think there is room in the market for local micro craft beers, low quality macro craft beers, high quality macro craft beers.

Today, maybe but InBev has just started buying up companies in an effort to change that. They have made offers to many many many big breweries in an attempt to regain market share. They don't want a local in the fridge...they want is stuff in a corner where you don't see it.  They want anything that is not theirs off the shelf.  The bigger they get, the easier it becomes.

[cjd5050]

22 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

41yrs. Once pop the cap happened in 2005 I was a full on craft drinker. Before that I was into whatever was not Miller/Bud/Coors...like New Castle, Guinness, etc. Even in college in the 90's, while we drank plenty of swill, but my roommates and I always hit up the nicer places with good selections as a treat when mom sent some extra money.  As for a conversion process, I find almost all of my friends (most the same age as me) all drink craft. Nobody I know brings a 12 pack of Bud Light to my pool.  It's silly to think age has anything to do with it. I've been to pool parties in Southend with the "young kids". Its cheap blue moon cans and miller lite that most are pounding, not craft. Heck when I was at the last knights game, it was youngsters pounding cheap swill and the old folks drinking the expensive stuff. 

I disagree on age.  People develop brand loyalty and craft beer has not been around for most of the US for 20+ years.  I also may have a different perspective as I have lived in what's considered the best beer city in the US in San Diego, Charlotte which is about middle of the road and Buffalo which beyond the Big3 has Labatts/Molson to deal with.  There absolutely is an age gap of drinkers in WNY that just stick with what they know.  I am pretty confident this is the case for most of the US as well as most of the US is not like the top 25 beer cities....yet.  

27 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

Today, maybe but InBev has just started buying up companies in an effort to change that. They have made offers to many many many big breweries in an attempt to regain market share. They don't want a local in the fridge...they want is stuff in a corner where you don't see it.  They want anything that is not theirs off the shelf.  The bigger they get, the easier it becomes.

I don't think that's really what they want.  I think they realize they are not going to be able to put the cork back in so to speak.

I think what is happening is a 'middle class' of beer drinkers is being created.  Craft is the upper class.  AB/Miller/Coors is the lower class.  That's a huge spectrum and in the middle is what's up for grabs.  

Not everyone is going to trade for Cantillon or not everyone has the taste for a 120 IPA.  These beers are never going to be touched by the big boys.  Too much time, too expensive and no enough demand.  So there will always be an upper tier.  But just as the lower tier reaches up for the middle drinker with say an All Day IPA the same will be done by the upper tier.  

At the end of the day people are drinking an All Day IPA rather than AB/Miller/Coors.  That's my point.

 

 

 

 

[nonillogical]

17 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

I don't think that's really what they want.  I think they realize they are not going to be able to put the cork back in so to speak.

I think what is happening is a 'middle class' of beer drinkers is being created.  Craft is the upper class.  AB/Miller/Coors is the lower class.  That's a huge spectrum and in the middle is what's up for grabs.  

Not everyone is going to trade for Cantillon or not everyone has the taste for a 120 IPA.  These beers are never going to be touched by the big boys.  Too much time, too expensive and no enough demand.  So there will always be an upper tier.  But just as the lower tier reaches up for the middle drinker with say an All Day IPA the same will be done by the upper tier.  

While that sounds fine in theory, buying Wicked Weed does not fit that narrative at all. Their beers, both in price and experimentalism reside easily in the "upper class craft" genre. This is a much bolder and concerning move IMO than the purchases of Goose Island, Lagunitas, Ballast Point, etc.

[cjd5050]

24 minutes ago, nonillogical said:

While that sounds fine in theory, buying Wicked Weed does not fit that narrative at all. Their beers, both in price and experimentalism reside easily in the "upper class craft" genre. This is a much bolder and concerning move IMO than the purchases of Goose Island, Lagunitas, Ballast Point, etc.

Right.  And Bourbon County Stout used to be a rare whale of a beer to try and get your hands on.   Now A/B has started to mass distribute BCS as rare.  Rare not by the amount made but rare as in where to find it.    

Wicked Weed will be homogenized to an extent.  

[go_vertical]

Before I moved to Charlotte eight years ago I bartended for a number of years in Orlando. Now, back then the craft landscape in central Florida was nearly non existent (to be honest it still pales in comparison to what we have here today) and a sizeable portion of the beer I sold was your typical macros. Fast forward to today and while I don't bartender for a living anymore I do jump behind the counter at my friend's restaurant occasionally when he is in a pinch and short staffed. His place doesn't have any macros on draft. If you want a bud/bud light, coors, high life, PBR, etc you're getting a bottle or can. They also don't offer specials on those brands while doing regular NC beer specials.

From my experience the big guys still hold their own in regards to percentage of sales. I would guess those account for maybe 35 to 40% of beer sales, and that with having a much larger selection of micros and crafts. While it appears that a majority of the swill is purchased by older customers the younger guys still opt for the bud lights of the world although a comparable regional might only be .50 or 1.00 more if it's on special.

[elrodvt]

^i thought specials aren't allowed in NC? Such a dumb law. Miss happy hour and $3 locals day etc...

[kermit]

^specials are allowed, but they must be all day. The prohibition is that they can't promote drinking during a limited amount of time (e.g. happy hour)  because of a fear of binging and then driving home. So $3 NC drafts on Monday are fine but $3 NC drafts between 5 and 7pm are not fine.

Edited May 4, 2017 by kermit

[grodney]

Well, it looks almost certain that Catawba is opening tomorrow (05/06/2017), so I'll go ahead and do this now......

CHECK OUT THE BIG BRAIN ON @11 HouseBZ !!!

Predicting on Dec 30 of last year, with the information "Early 2017", made a prediction of 05/02/2017.

2/11/2017    Clayton
3/15/2017    JT
4/1/2017    toz
5/2/2017    11 HouseBZ
6/3/2017    grodney
7/1/2017    Hornetshawk
7/26/2017    hambone931

Playing with house money from here on out.

[CLTProductions]

7 minutes ago, grodney said:

Well, it looks almost certain that Catawba is opening tomorrow (05/06/2017), so I'll go ahead and do this now......

CHECK OUT THE BIG BRAIN ON @11 HouseBZ !!!

Predicting on Dec 30 of last year, with the information "Early 2017", made a prediction of 05/02/2017.

2/11/2017    Clayton
3/15/2017    JT
4/1/2017    toz
5/2/2017    11 HouseBZ
6/3/2017    grodney
7/1/2017    Hornetshawk
7/26/2017    hambone931

Playing with house money from here on out.

It is certain I went last night. Absolutely fantastic facility. Unreal. 

[InSouthPark]

19 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

It is certain I went last night. Absolutely fantastic facility. Unreal. 

Tell me you took a pic of the beer list? 

[grodney]

On 4/27/2017 at 9:39 AM, grodney said:

 Stated hours for the Saturday May 13 Grand Opening are 5pm-10pm.  Maybe it's just me, but that's really odd.

 

Okay, this makes more sense now....according to Daniel's article in the Five: "Bold Missy Brewery’s grand opening will be from 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. on Saturday, May 13. After the grand opening, the brewery’s regular hours will be 4-10 p.m. Tuesday through Friday, 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. on Saturday, and 1-7 p.m. on Sunday."  I mean who the hell opens at 5pm?

http://www.charlottefive.com/bold-missy-brewery/

p.s. Love the half-pint option.  Like that pints are $5.  Like that flights are $6 instead of 9-12 as some breweries are doing now (Sycamore, Fonta Flora).  Don't like growlers fills at $15 (and $12 for a crowler is insanity, but whatevs people).  Shout out to Birdsong STILL doing $10 growler fills!

Edited May 5, 2017 by grodney

[CLTProductions]

12 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

Tell me you took a pic of the beer list? 

This is their staples. They have a ton of seasonal and small batches too like a coconut porter, apple sour, PB&J etc 

[InSouthPark]

^^ I wanted the seasonal/one off list (but thanks for what you have)!

I always enjoy hitting the South Slope location, not for any of the core beers, but for the many one off barrel aged beers and sours.  There is always something interesting there while I wait for a table at Buxton Hall.

[11 HouseBZ]

 Thanks for the props, but I'm not much of a big brain, I just picked anniversaries, birthdays, etc. But that was fun to get at least one right or close. Let's see about these other breweries!

[InSouthPark]

Decent turnout for the grand opening. /s 

And this was before the rain moved all the outside folks in. Then it got really busy inside!

Awesome space. Sours, barrel aged beers, Belgians, and the core beers on tap. Sour Zombie is outstanding!

Edited May 6, 2017 by InSouthPark

[grodney]

We went to Sweet Union yesterday (just across the line into Union County on 74).  Place is okay.....not as fancy/finished as the top-level breweries, but not an unfinished garage either.  The space is just kind of a big room with a bar in the middle of it.  High ceilings, which need some kind of damping, as the sound became pretty bad with just a few people in there.  Small number of tables outdoors.  And the beer.....not great.  Good variety of styles, but they were all a little watery and unremarkable.  The Oat Pale was probably the best, and the only one I would consider to be at commercial quality.