Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[AmIReal]

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

The Beer Bar across from the fire station

Tap and Grind is no more

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

The Bar with the lamps

Ann Teagues Lamp Supply

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

New cocktail place that replaced Subway

I think this is called Bellhop...?

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

I Bar (closed?)

I saw a sign that said "The Corner"

Maybe Com Gray would like to point out which specific bars he would like closed down.

[spenser1058]

Time to get your chicken on! Huey Magoo’s opens at 10:30am Wednesday. 342 N Orange Ave.

https://bungalower.com/2022/08/15/huey-magoos-announces-opening-date-for-new-downtown-location/

From Bungalower 

Edited August 15, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

Can I assume you are not a fan of the art installation around Lake Eola? 

I agree the Calder work would be great, but when comparing the public art of this administration to the previous 2 admins, it is obvious the Dyer admin has done much better. 

True.  But, I noticed The Eye of Horus (near Waverly) is rusting.  The stainless steel twirly thing at Eola & Robinson is showing signs of age.  To be fair, in early 2020, the Calder sculpture at JC Kluczinski was covered up and under renovation, so they all require upkeep.

I was the one that brought this subject up ala the "level" of art quality.  I think it's ok.  The art along Rosalind is cool, the half buried stuff.  

But nothing they have is memorable.

 

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Time to get your chicken on! Huey Magoo’s opens at 10:30am Wednesday. 342 N Orange Ave.

https://bungalower.com/2022/08/15/huey-magoos-announces-opening-date-for-new-downtown-location/

From Bungalower 

I just drove by it an hour ago.  it's in that 10 story apartment building.  nice signage.

2 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Tap and Grind is no more

Ann Teagues Lamp Supply

I think this is called Bellhop...?

I saw a sign that said "The Corner"

Maybe Com Gray would like to point out which specific bars he would like closed down.

yeah, Bellhop is pretty cool inside.  and the space opposite it in Angebilt is supposed to be an upscale sports bar...not open yet dunno.  

As for Gray, I smell a lot of lawsuits if they do try and enforce something versus bars...

[AndyPok1]

3 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Tap and Grind is no more

Ann Teagues Lamp Supply

I think this is called Bellhop...?

I saw a sign that said "The Corner"

Maybe Com Gray would like to point out which specific bars he would like closed down.

Thanks for the assist.  I could have looked on Google, but it was more of a challenge to myself to see how well I could do off the dome.

[AndyPok1]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

So let’s keep downtown just as it is. Gosh, it’s perfect. Everyone’s flocking to it!

It's not perfect.  But a vast majority of those bars have been around 5-10 years.  They are successful businesses.  I know people don't want to accept this, but bars are the primary driving factor of activity from 8P-2A.  Happy Hours and Dinners are done.  Events have started.  The only reason people are out and about are because of bars.  And that's true virtually everywhere.  It's good that we have it downtown.  It's what makes lots of people want to live downtown.  It's what increases urbanism.  There will always be bad actors. 

[spenser1058]

The Sentinel seems to concur with Commissioner Gray:

”City officials said the proposals on Monday’s agenda were designed to limit the festival-like atmosphere on downtown streets on weekend nights when crowds of more than 15,000 fill more than 100 bars and spill out into the streets of the Entertainment Area. ”

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orlando-downtown-live-20220815-ih242yfiujh6fojzae6digll4e-story.html

Nevertheless, apparently it’s OK if it’s just 70 bars and everything’s wonderful downtown.

I confess that, in all my years on discussion boards, I’ve never encountered so many folks wedded to the status quo unless it was a prayer board for evangelicals.

The conservative mantra used to be, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” I find merit in that but for the life of me I find it difficult to imagine how anyone can believe downtown’s not broken.

So be it. This is Orlando.

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, AndyPok1 said:

Thanks for the assist.  I could have looked on Google, but it was more of a challenge to myself to see how well I could do off the dome.

To pull that list out of your... inner recesses... shows a well-developed sense of Orlando's bar scene.

26 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

confess that, in all my years on discussion boards, I’ve never encountered so many folks wedded to the status quo unless it was a prayer board for evangelicals

I confess that, in all my years on discussion boards, I've never encountered an individual so wedded to his opinion of what is true and best unless it was a board for Trump supporters.

I don't think you're getting a lot of comments that nothing is wrong. But most of what you do is complain/ moan/ finger point and try to turn it into political capital. I find it off putting, but that's just me.

[spenser1058]

Come to think about it, if this is such a viable strategy, let’s take it to Chuck at Unicorp.

“Hey, Chuck, I’ve got this GREAT idea for OFS. Forget about retail or anything entertainment-oriented. Let’s put in 70-100 dive bars catering to the party to you puke crowd and let’s keep it open until 3am so everyone can be totally wasted.

”Chuck, can you picture what kind of folks will want to live around that? I mean, this will be killer, dude - let’s get right on that!”

Then head down to Nona and propose the same thing to Tavistock for their town center. Can you picture it?

Goodness gracious, then next at the Marketplace at Southside. We don’t need no stinkin’ retail, we got 100 dive bars! Party-til-you-puke or until 3 am!

Heck, we can franchise it. I already have the name for it - “POTTERSVILLE”.

Just imagine when you present the concept to the EDC - they’ll love it. This is FABULOUS.

It’s funny, Boston shut down the Combat Zone and NYC cleaned up Times Square, but here in Orlando we’re embracing squalor and can’t wait to return to the 1970’s. The City Beautiful is going to be so EXTRA!

Edited August 16, 2022 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

36 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The Sentinel seems to concur with Commissioner Gray:

”City officials said the proposals on Monday’s agenda were designed to limit the festival-like atmosphere on downtown streets on weekend nights when crowds of more than 15,000 fill more than 100 bars and spill out into the streets of the Entertainment Area. ”

I think that sentence says everything we need it to.  There's more than 15,000 coming to our downtown on a weekend night when most Central Business Districts are deader than a doornail after 6PM, let alone on weekends.  It's part of what makes Orlando attractive to the 20-40 year old crowd.  You can Live. Work. Play.

No one here is saying we shouldn't add more retail.  But that's perpetually going to be a struggle with or without the bars.  And as far as "entertainment", we already have an amazing performing arts center, an arena that is considered a standard for modern arenas, a movie theatre, an improv comedy venue, a full time karaoke bar (as bad as the sound levels are), and numerous music venues.  What entertainment that occurs after dinner would you like to see downtown that we don't have?  Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I legitimately don't know what the other forms of entertainment are.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

To pull that list out of your... inner recesses... shows a well-developed sense of Orlando's bar scene.

I confess that, in all my years on discussion boards, I've never encountered an individual so wedded to his opinion of what is true and best unless it was a board for Trump supporters.

I don't think you're getting a lot of comments that nothing is wrong. But most of what you do is complain/ moan/ finger point and try to turn it into political capital. I find it off putting, but that's just me.

It's not just you.

Our resident finger pointer and blame assigner, just can't seem to grasp the whole free market and private enterprise concept. The one where entrepreneurs decide into what kind of business they're going to invest their money in a particular area, let's say downtown Orlando for example, based on what there is a viable market for.

Seems to be of the notion that Buddy Dyer, if he was doing his job (which of course he isn't) should issue a decree commanding all new business in DTO to be involved in retail. And x percentage of existing bars must switch over to retail as well.

Everything wrong in Orlando is Buddy's fault.   

[sunshine]

Winter Garden and Park Ave is doing fine without bars. Now I can add Lake Nona town center.

[jack]

14 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

I think that sentence says everything we need it to.  There's more than 15,000 coming to our downtown on a weekend night when most Central Business Districts are deader than a doornail after 6PM, let alone on weekends.  It's part of what makes Orlando attractive to the 20-40 year old crowd.  You can Live. Work. Play.

No one here is saying we shouldn't add more retail.  But that's perpetually going to be a struggle with or without the bars.  And as far as "entertainment", we already have an amazing performing arts center, an arena that is considered a standard for modern arenas, a movie theatre, an improv comedy venue, a full time karaoke bar (as bad as the sound levels are), and numerous music venues.  What entertainment that occurs after dinner would you like to see downtown that we don't have?  Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I legitimately don't know what the other forms of entertainment are.

I am not sure what you do when many of the people causing problems don't go inside any of these bars. They just show up to walk around. 

[spenser1058]

12 hours ago, JFW657 said:

It's not just you.

Our resident finger pointer and blame assigner, just can't seem to grasp the whole free market and private enterprise concept. The one where entrepreneurs decide into what kind of business they're going to invest their money in a particular area, let's say downtown Orlando for example, based on what there is a viable market for.

Seems to be of the notion that Buddy Dyer, if he was doing his job (which of course he isn't) should issue a decree commanding all new business in DTO to be involved in retail. And x percentage of existing bars must switch over to retail as well.

Everything wrong in Orlando is Buddy's fault.   

He’s had TWENTY YEARS. At what point do we take off the training wheels and have him act like an actual, you know, strong mayor? Maybe we have to wait until 50 years, that should do it, right? Heck, by then, he may fix the horrible condition of the roadway on Summerlin and Delaney. He’s still thinking about those.

[jrs2]

14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Come to think about it, if this is such a viable strategy, let’s take it to Chuck at Unicorp.

“Hey, Chuck, I’ve got this GREAT idea for OFS. Forget about retail or anything entertainment-oriented. Let’s put in 70-100 dive bars catering to the party to you puke crowd and let’s keep it open until 3am so everyone can be totally wasted.

”Chuck, can you picture what kind of folks will want to live around that? I mean, this will be killer, dude - let’s get right on that!”

Then head down to Nona and propose the same thing to Tavistock for their town center. Can you picture it?

Goodness gracious, then next at the Marketplace at Southside. We don’t need no stinkin’ retail, we got 100 dive bars! Party-til-you-puke or until 3 am!

Heck, we can franchise it. I already have the name for it - “POTTERSVILLE”.

Just imagine when you present the concept to the EDC - they’ll love it. This is FABULOUS.

It’s funny, Boston shut down the Combat Zone and NYC cleaned up Times Square, but here in Orlando we’re embracing squalor and can’t wait to return to the 1970’s. The City Beautiful is going to be so EXTRA!

I don't drink much. But when I walk by a bar and see people there carrying about and having a good time it really touches me.  It's a magnet; it's a social thing.  Hood tried to do something back when people were raving and getting blitzed out of this dimension.  Why return to that and even do that now?  There are downtowns that would kill to have the nightlife DTO has.  It is a magnet.  You take the good with the bad.

I'm not going to get into politics with this whole business of regulation thing, but, if you read that quote again, about "the festive atmosphere...on the weekends..." it paints that administration as a bunch of pissed off thrill kills.  These people need to get a nut.  This is the same bunch that tried to kill The Fourth fireworks and had to recant their position after blowback, and then probably hired some guy to yell "gun!" just to thrill kill the fireworks crowd in the end anyway; and now they're chasing that move with this.

These NY professionals explained to me ten years ago that the justification for the Big Gulp legislation Bloomberg passed was 'better health through codification.'  Well, apply that philosophy to DTO.  As for me, I say, I don't drink Big Gulps and don't drink soda for that matter, and I don't stay up that late b/c I need my sleep, but, nevertheless, with regard to the City and their stance on bars, I say emphatically:  fudge that.

9 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

He’s had TWENTY YEARS. At what point do we take off the training wheels and have him act like an actual, you know, strong mayor? Maybe we have to wait until 50 years, that should do it, right? Heck, by then, he may fix the horrible condition of the roadway on Summerlin and Delaney. He’s still thinking about those.

oh, I would be satisfied with them just fixing the brick minefield on Central east of Summerlin all the way to Mills...

13 minutes ago, jack said:

I am not sure what you do when many of the people causing problems don't go inside any of these bars. They just show up to walk around. 

exactly.  that's what they (and we) do in TImes Square...we people watch (after grabbing a slice at Ray's Pizza).  It's no different here...

[spenser1058]

If Downtown Orlando were a football team, it would be USF….

Edited August 16, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, sunshine said:

Winter Garden and Park Ave is doing fine without bars. Now I can add Lake Nona town center.

I think there's a distinction not being made between bars (straight up) and restaurants that also serve alcohol.  There is a lot of alcohol being consumed on Park Avenue at night. It's all about the alcohol sales... 

10 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

If Downtown Orlando we’re a football team, it would be USF….

oh come on, Spencer...do you mean the 2007 Bulls?

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I think there's a distinction not being made between bars (straight up) and restaurants that also serve alcohol.  There is a lot of alcohol being consumed on Park Avenue at night. It's all about the alcohol sales... 

oh come on, Spencer...do you mean the 2007 Bulls?

Nope, the Jeff Scott version that just tossed its QB. He’s had about seven of those since he got to Temple Terrace…

[jrs2]

9 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Nope, the Jeff Scott version that just tossed its QB. He’s had about seven of those since he got to Temple Terrace…

...it'll be ok...

[spenser1058]

17 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

...it'll be ok...

Well, they do have the fact that the AAC’s 3 best teams will be gone next year. Now if they can get UCONN back, they’ll be all set!

Of course, if FAU beats them, there will be heads exploding all around Busch Gardens…

Edited August 16, 2022 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, jack said:

I am not sure what you do when many of the people causing problems don't go inside any of these bars. They just show up to walk around. 

I'm not so sure about that.

People who start fights in public have usually been over consuming alcohol. In order to drink, you pretty much have to go inside and spend time in bars. I think that it's inside the bars that the issues which cause these violent incidents begin. Competition over a woman or someone says the wrong thing, whatever.

I just have my doubts that a significant percentage of fights are caused by people who just go downtown to walk around.

Some? Maybe. Most? I kinda doubt it. 

I believe alcohol mixed with a raucous atmosphere are what spurs most of it. 

[jack]

14 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I'm not so sure about that.

People who start fights in public have usually been over consuming alcohol. In order to drink, you pretty much have to go inside and spend time in bars. I think that it's inside the bars that the issues which cause these violent incidents begin. Competition over a woman or someone says the wrong thing, whatever.

I just have my doubts that a significant percentage of fights are caused by people who just go downtown to walk around.

Some? Maybe. Most? I kinda doubt it. 

I believe alcohol mixed with a raucous atmosphere are what spurs most of it. 

I'm talking more of the guys with guns. Shootings usually happen in the streets. Also, that is what OPD has said previously. 

[spenser1058]

Buddy Dyer is to Downtown Orlando what Eddie Lampert was to Sears. In both cases, they had no clue what they had and in both cases they killed them. Sad.

[AmIReal]

23 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

People who start fights in public have usually been over consuming alcohol. In order to drink, you pretty much have to go inside and spend time in bars. I think that it's inside the bars that the issues which cause these violent incidents begin. Competition over a woman or someone says the wrong thing, whatever.

Nope. A lot of the problem drinking- and additional products- are consumed in the parking lots. That is why they are talking about so much additional enforcement on them. There are a lot of "kids" downtown that can't go in the bars, but they "load up" in their cars then walk around all night. Sure, bar fights occur, but that is not where most of the action is.

One of the byproducts of everyone having to pass through some form of security to get to the party zone is it allows the cops to pick out those that are already too trashed to enter. It also makes it less likely that certain bad actors are going to enter that area because they don't want to have the cops' eyes on them.

Side effect- the bad actors will now hang out in other areas, just basically moving the battle front. 

[JFW657]

The girls in the video below look like they were probably out walking around or hanging around in parking lots drinking out of a brown paper bag....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3juwbJUvhco 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by JFW657