Drive for 'Center City' retail

[tozmervo]

^ wow, the new store exterior design reminds me of a Target. But with blue instead of red.

 

 

[15895]

That Belk facade would look amazing at the base of a tower in uptown. I think.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Definitely! I like the blue.

[Urbanity]

On the misc/uptown news thread some talk about retail got me thinking.

The long debated (and probably moot) point of Belk not opening a competitor store to its own flagship at South Park.  

 

Two thoughts occurred to me:

 

The first is that sooner or later Belk is going to have a competitor store inside the 277 loop whether or not it's its own store.  It's just a fact that Center City continues to grow in residents and is more and more of a destination for the area.  Retail in a significant way is a given and it's just a matter of time and construction.   The question of Belk returning to the heart of the city may actually be more of a question of the future of Belk than a referendum of center city retail.

 

The other thought was I would be happy to not have a major department store but a center city filled with independent boutiques and mom and pop stores.  Wouldn't it be ironic and a captivating story in itself if the soul of what is often billed as an antiseptic city is found in its retail?   As glistening are its towers is as down to earth and accessible is its stores.

 

I think my first though is the more realistic btw of the two (as I do think Belk is in a no-win situation as far as the downtown question, but the urbanist in me is more excited about the latter - even if it is unrealistic.

[15895]

I wonder though if a smaller store uptown would actually compete with its South Park flagship store or compliment the South Park store and increase market share/brand loyalty.

I can't see South Park Belk losing traffic to an uptown, smaller Belk. Who would drive uptown for a smaller store? Especially for those in more suburban parts. And Who would choose the smaller Belk when you could go to the larger South Park Belk and Nordstrom and all the other stores?

I think the two locations (were they to do a downtown store) would compliment each other and serve two different markets.

I'm not trying to harp about Belk, I just would like to know... Would an Uptown Belk and South Park Belk really compete? Is uptown low on the radar for other lower hanging fruits in other markets?

[LKN704]

I know Belk operated a Belk Express location in the Overstreet Mall. It would be interesting to compare the performance of the Overstreet location to Southpark.

[Norm2]

Any retail stores Uptown would have to cater to two demographics. One being the residents of Uptown and the other being visitors. I do not think that a big department store will work in Uptown, but some smaller type of stores that you may usually see in the mall I think could work. If only there was a good spot near the EpiCenter for some good retail.

[Urbanity]

I know Belk operated a Belk Express location in the Overstreet Mall. It would be interesting to compare the performance of the Overstreet location to Southpark.

The Belk Express in Overstreet seemed little more than a perfume counter with ties, scarves, and jewelry to me.   I've seen non-department mall stores with more offerings.

[15895]

http://m.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2013/11/04/belk-bowl-gets-boost-with-new-sec-ties.html

This CBJ article about the SEC & Belk is why. Think a Belk is more likely than others for retail in uptown.

He seems to care about the city like Jim Rogers, McColl, etc

[Urbanity]

http://m.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2013/11/04/belk-bowl-gets-boost-with-new-sec-ties.html

This CBJ article about the SEC & Belk is why. Think a Belk is more likely than others for retail in uptown.

He seems to care about the city like Jim Rogers, McColl, etc

While a Belk over another retailer setting up a major store here may be more likely than another retailer (something I'm still not certain of)  I think you make a huge leap saying that based off this article. 

 

Let's face it - it boils down to this "Belk disclosed his company’s plans the same day Southeastern Conference commissioner Mike Slive visited the retailer’s headquarters to formalize an agreement to include an SEC school in the annual bowl game at Bank of America Stadium."   

 

College Football bowls of that level are expensive but also unparalleled advertising opportunities.  That's why they are committed to doing this.  

 

Hell - Let's not forget they were ready to see the Thanksgiving Parade die.

 

The truth is that Belk is a small competitor to most major department stores and they just don't have the risk appetite or the finances to just open a department store based on altruism alone.  

 

Edit: Sorry if my post is so negative I just have misgivings about their being Charlotte's homegrown department store and they not having a presence in it's CBD.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Urbanity

[15895]

Forgot about the parade

[ah59396]

Went to Asheville this weekend, and while it's obviously a big tourist town, it always enrages me (with jealousy) to see how great of a job they've down developing such a wonderful vibe in their downtown thanks to successful encouragement of pedestrian street level retail.  

 

It's truly amazing to see a city with 80,000 people blow the doors off Charlotte with 10x the population in regards to downtown vibe, which I hate to admit.  I'm not sure when we are going to finally break through with retail...but I CANNOT WAIT.

[15895]

I went To Hendersonville and I was jealous of their bustling downtown

[Urbanity]

Went to Asheville this weekend, and while it's obviously a big tourist town, it always enrages me (with jealousy) to see how great of a job they've down developing such a wonderful vibe in their downtown thanks to successful encouragement of pedestrian street level retail.  

 

It's truly amazing to see a city with 80,000 people blow the doors off Charlotte with 10x the population in regards to downtown vibe, which I hate to admit.  I'm not sure when we are going to finally break through with retail...but I CANNOT WAIT.

 

I love Asheville's downtown.  There are several times when you can be on a street in Asheville and feel like your in a cool neighborhood of a much larger city.  They also have the boutique stores that I think would do well in CBD CLT.

On a related note - I really wish we could have their river arts district from N. Davidson (277) to about 36th street.    

[cltbwimob]

Went to Asheville this weekend, and while it's obviously a big tourist town, it always enrages me (with jealousy) to see how great of a job they've down developing such a wonderful vibe in their downtown thanks to successful encouragement of pedestrian street level retail.  

 

It's truly amazing to see a city with 80,000 people blow the doors off Charlotte with 10x the population in regards to downtown vibe, which I hate to admit.  I'm not sure when we are going to finally break through with retail...but I CANNOT WAIT.

I think unfortunately that the land values in uptown Charlotte prohibit this from happening in the same manner as some smaller cities, especially if those cities elected to keep turn-of-the-20th-century structures in place. I also believe that retail begets retail, requiring there be a critical mass of shops in Uptown to actually create a window shopping district (which is critical for outdoor street level retail). My own personal opinion is that it will take a large builder buying several contiguous swaths of land and building several stories of residential and/or commercial development above street level retail. I could definitely see this occurring along Brevard Street if a large developer were to buy 3 or 4 of the large parking lots and build a set of purpose built retail/apartment buildings with maybe 6 or 7 stories of residential on top of the retail. I do not, however see Uptown as a place that will attract much in the way of retail, if its not purpose built into a large mixed use development of several blocks. I just think that the value of land is too high for small shops to survive on their own in downtown without a critical mass of other retail, and several rental units above the shops.

[15895]

I'd be content with boutiques and antique places being in NoDa/Plaza/SouthEnd connected by rail.

Hopefully each hood could specialize in certain areas (arts, furnitures, breweries, antiques, etc.)

Center city could be more mainstream, national & international retail.

I'd love for rails to connect these neighborhoods and the city invest in the branding of these "districts" so when tourist are in center city, they can easily go to an "Arts District" or go to boutique shops etc. easily on our rails.

Edit; such a shame Garden Row District in 1st ward lacks character. I wish we could re-do that.

Edited November 18, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[ah59396]

I had no clue that this opened.

http://o1ne.com

It's on the bottom of Trademark on South Mint. It looked awesome last night but it was closed when I was there.

[DMann]

I had no clue that this opened.

http://o1ne.com

It's on the bottom of Trademark on South Mint. It looked awesome last night but it was closed when I was there.

Been there for a while.

[atlrvr]

^ A very long while....since 2009 at least, if not before. 

[ah59396]

^ A very long while....since 2009 at least, if not before.

Haha wow. I'm in uptown every weekend and I had zero clue.

[MilZ]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/27/4644543/can-an-asheville-style-shopping.html#.Uubr_X88KSM

It's something we bring up often, but it's refreshing to see it discussed in the city's paper.

[15895]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/27/4644543/can-an-asheville-style-shopping.html#.Uubr_X88KSMIt's something we bring up often, but it's refreshing to see it discussed in the city's paper.

What's better than Newspapers discussing retail is council discussing retail

[CLTProductions]

Biz Journals take on the matter

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2014/01/28/study-untapped-retail-potential-in.html

[Urbanity]

What's better than Newspapers discussing retail is council discussing retail

What's better than Newspapers and city council discussing retail in the areas will be significant retailers discussing retail in the area

[Miesian Corners]

I think unfortunately that the land values in uptown Charlotte prohibit this from happening in the same manner as some smaller cities, especially if those cities elected to keep turn-of-the-20th-century structures in place. I also believe that retail begets retail, requiring there be a critical mass of shops in Uptown to actually create a window shopping district (which is critical for outdoor street level retail). My own personal opinion is that it will take a large builder buying several contiguous swaths of land and building several stories of residential and/or commercial development above street level retail. I could definitely see this occurring along Brevard Street if a large developer were to buy 3 or 4 of the large parking lots and build a set of purpose built retail/apartment buildings with maybe 6 or 7 stories of residential on top of the retail. I do not, however see Uptown as a place that will attract much in the way of retail, if its not purpose built into a large mixed use development of several blocks. I just think that the value of land is too high for small shops to survive on their own in downtown without a critical mass of other retail, and several rental units above the shops.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.  Mom and pop retail, as well as small independent restaurants, thrive where rents are low.  And while downtown Asheville is great now, I can't help but wonder how long it will be before the local merchants are pushed out due to rising rents.

 

In terms of big city downtown retail, Seattle stands out as the way Charlotte could possibly work.  Office towers, for the most part, are still just office towers.  Retail is situated adjacent to the city's financial district, not IN it. 

Edited January 28, 2014 by Miesian Corners