Metropolitan, Midtown Redevelopment

[rockhilljames]

I agree with you, but looking at the current environment I'm not so sure retail along Kings would have been viable in the short term. Kings is heavily travelled with most cars going about 40mph+. That combined with the strip shopping center parking lots directly across the street does not make for a very enjoyable pedestrian experience. That is where I would think it would be more fair to require the developer to design the first level of the parking deck to be converted to retail at a later date when traffic can be calmed on Kings and the shopping center across the street is redesigned in a more urban manner to match Metropolitan.

My guess is that if the developer were required to build all of Kings as retail now they would sit empty for a while.

That might be true now, but it's not like it couldn't change over time. The video highlights the fact that while the creek-side part of the project will actually be quite inviting and pedistrian friendly, no effort is made to connect the "midtown" side of the project with the surrounding neighborhood. It will, in effect, become an island of office, retail, and residential in what should be becoming a strolling neighborhood. Midtown and SouthEnd are the two best chances we have to create human scaled-walking shopping districts bordering downtown. While I'm not against the project, I wish more effort would have gone into how the project relates to the area around it.

[uptownliving]

I agree, but I think Elizabeth is more likely to become a stroll district than Midtown. Midtown looks like they are going the route of national chains whereas Elizabeth is growing more organically with a nice mix of local retailers.

To get the strolling district you are looking for its really going to be up to the owners of the Arbys, and strip shopping center that has the Subway to redesign that in a more urban fashion. Until that happens it would be pointless to have pedestrian retail along Kings.

To the developers credit even though there is not much retail along Kings..he did make the development part of the existing grid network...so the oppurtunity exists in the future to make this a stroll district in the future.

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

Nice video. The project looks great...but please tell me there won't be palmettos! "Charleston By the Creek."

[dubone]

It has been mentioned a few times about how the streets are gridded, and how the site is oriented. Part of the confusion comes from how they plan to move the Baxter bridge, so that can't be used as the point of reference. Note that the water in the creek is not going to be a river like they show, it is just for marketing purposes to show it full like a river. However, to avoid floods, I believe the county does plan to put in little rocks and such to have little rapids, like you'd see in a natural stream in the mountains. It might end up, then, with more water consistently than it has now as a result, but no damming is planned in this area. It will also be brown and not blue as the marketers would like to show.

Also, you can really see here how the new gridded street connects to Baxter to Cherry and Myer's Park, and how the new bridge will now connect at the more efficient location at the narrowest point between Kenilworth and Kings. (I would somewhat expect it to get a new name, as it would not longer be oriented to Baxter).

[monsoon]

Thanks for clearing that up.

It looks good on paper. Almost without exception when a developer has chosen to turn a development inward on itself like that, it invariably doesn't make it in its original form. This thing is completely disconnected from almost every thing else around it and I don't see people, who don't live there, making the effort to get to the few chain stores that might be located inside. It completely loses it on what it means to connect retail to the streets.

If you were a business owner of a small retail business, would you want to risk locating on that greenway where nobody can see your business from the street? i don't think so.

This was a missed opportunity for sure and it amazes me that so many people who had to get in line to approve this development just don't get it.

[swh1972]

Where does the Little Sugarcreek Greenway fall in relation to this project? To put the question more bluntly, if you are walking along the Greenway (once it is completed), will you be anywhere near Metropolitan?

[uptownliving]

Where does the Little Sugarcreek Greenway fall in relation to this project? To put the question more bluntly, if you are walking along the Greenway (once it is completed), will you be anywhere near Metropolitan?

The greenway goes right by the Metropolitan. It is intergrated into the project. The shops that front the greenway will be literally adjacent to it.

[uptownliving]

If you were a business owner of a small retail business, would you want to risk locating on that greenway where nobody can see your business from the street? i don't think so.

The retail that fronts the greenway will be highly visible from Stonewall/Kennilworth and a small section of Independence. More driveby traffic will see the stores fronting the greenway than the stores located on the interior road inside the development.

If I ran a small store I would want to be on the greenway side of this development. Its the most visible side.

[swh1972]

Thanks! That's good to hear. You might get some foot traffic from Uptown for people going to get a bite to eat. Not sure if I would walk there if I was going to Staples to buy a ream of computer paper, though...

Edited January 19, 2007 by swh1972

[Miesian Corners]

^True, a couple of reams of paper are heavy, but won't it be nice to have a choice of retailers to buy that paper from, not to mention using less gas to drive to the new Staples rather than going down Independence (or South Blvd) to Office Depot. Also, Pappas does own the little triangular piece of land on Kings and last I heard, was trying to get the little shopping center next to it (beside the Arby's). These parcels would be developed as mixed-use as well.

As a side note, construction has begun on the relocation of the ABC Store at the corner of Independence and Kings. The Morehead store will close late this spring and be demolished for the greenway.

[uptownliving]

As a side note, construction has begun on the relocation of the ABC Store at the corner of Independence and Kings. The Morehead store will close late this spring and be demolished for the greenway.

That is good news. I usually go to the ABC store on N Graham to get my liquor. When this one opens I will probably start using it, as I'm sure a lot of the downtown residents will too.

[revitalize]

I might want to locate a restaurant business on the greenway side, for the cafe atmosphere near the greenway and the potential for really nice views of the Uptown skyline...

Anyway, here are some logos i recognized in the video. Of course we can't take these as true confirmed tenants yet... but:

Macaroni Grill

Carabbas Italian

Chili's

Best Buy

Marshalls

Staples

...and....on the main street, I paused the video to notice a white sign that said "HERMES" backwards.... hmmmm

Could they potentially draw a retailer like Hermes?

[monsoon]

Unfortunately it's really nothing more than a glorified strip mall given its design so chain stores are most likely what will be seen here.

[Charlotte_native]

There is already a carabas on south, I hope this doesn't become ultimate chain city.

Alas, one year Olive Garden did win readers pick Best Italian in Charlotte.

[monsoon]

.....

One more thing that puzzled me? How could they ask so much money, and expect me to move in above marshalls? A nicer store yes, marshalls, no.

They are very good marketeers. Some people think it is worth the view of the skyline, but many others have posted here skepticism at the prices given what is being proposed. At those prices they are directly competing against condos right in downtown which in my book might be more desirable. Personally I agree with you that I just don't see it myself.

[habarr]

Good Marketers in an understatement! Awesome Marketers! Blow your Mind Marketers!

I was looking for a place close to downtown (but not in downtown) around the time that these were being sold... so I put my name on the "tell me when I can see more" list. I found something near southend and started the closing process. Then I got the call that I had a great spot on the lottery to have an opportunity to buy. Tuesday at 5:00. Lucky me! (part of the brilliant marketing) Sales started Monday, I think. By the time my lucky number came up over half were sold. It wasn't "if" you were going to buy, it was "which one". I'm a logical person who is generally slow to purchase, but I was TOTALLY sold!

With the help of my girlfriend and a respected buying agent, I selected one of the best (albeit most expensive - per sq. ft.) units in the project. Ouch! It's a city view on the top floor of the lofts... and it was every bit of $400/sq. ft. But city view is worth it!! Now looking at the video, it looks like the terraces will be blocking the view of the city. What's up with that? The model they showed, had the terraces about two stories shorter than the lofts. Pretty smart... an easy way to up the prices of those upper floor units!

Since then (around July) I have been reading this forum and getting buyers remorse. Of course that's my M.O. anytime I buy something big...

Have I made a huge mistake?

I'm curious if anyone else on this forum has purchased in this project. Just investors or people who want to live there?

I'm still wondering if there is a rising demand for "living in" condos in Charlotte. It seems like they keep building and speculators keep buying... to make money - not to live there. Is anyone going to live in the MetMidtown places? Or will it just be the "what were they thinking" area of Charlotte?

Currently I am still planning to live there, but I'm also really enjoying my location in Southend. I could eat my deposit and just stay where I am. I will pick out my "upgrades" on Wednesday. The assigned interior designer says that she thinks about half the people she has worked with are planning to live there. The other half are investors. Is that typical for Charlotte condos?

Let's hope a rising tide lifts all boats... and the economy will allow Charlotte real estate to continue to perform! Here's looking forward to a big decision in July 2008.

[monsoon]

If I were choosing between Southend and Midtown, I would definately take Southend. It has the benefit of the light rail line whereas the Met is completely surrounded by highways and parking lots. There will be no rail service to midtown for the foreseeable future.

[Conformity]

^True, a couple of reams of paper are heavy, but won't it be nice to have a choice of retailers to buy that paper from, not to mention using less gas to drive to the new Staples rather than going down Independence (or South Blvd) to Office Depot. Also, Pappas does own the little triangular piece of land on Kings and last I heard, was trying to get the little shopping center next to it (beside the Arby's). These parcels would be developed as mixed-use as well.

As a side note, construction has begun on the relocation of the ABC Store at the corner of Independence and Kings. The Morehead store will close late this spring and be demolished for the greenway.

Perfect....

Living in Elizabeth, if I buy my liquor there, I could pass out and land on my front porch.

Unfortunately it's really nothing more than a glorified strip mall given its design so chain stores are most likely what will be seen here.

With the Collettes involved, I think we'll see at least one major local restaurant concept.

[Conformity]

Good Marketers in an understatement! Awesome Marketers! Blow your Mind Marketers!

I was looking for a place close to downtown (but not in downtown) around the time that these were being sold... so I put my name on the "tell me when I can see more" list. I found something near southend and started the closing process. Then I got the call that I had a great spot on the lottery to have an opportunity to buy. Tuesday at 5:00. Lucky me! (part of the brilliant marketing) Sales started Monday, I think. By the time my lucky number came up over half were sold. It wasn't "if" you were going to buy, it was "which one". I'm a logical person who is generally slow to purchase, but I was TOTALLY sold!

With the help of my girlfriend and a respected buying agent, I selected one of the best (albeit most expensive - per sq. ft.) units in the project. Ouch! It's a city view on the top floor of the lofts... and it was every bit of $400/sq. ft. But city view is worth it!! Now looking at the video, it looks like the terraces will be blocking the view of the city. What's up with that? The model they showed, had the terraces about two stories shorter than the lofts. Pretty smart... an easy way to up the prices of those upper floor units!

Since then (around July) I have been reading this forum and getting buyers remorse. Of course that's my M.O. anytime I buy something big...

Have I made a huge mistake?

I'm curious if anyone else on this forum has purchased in this project. Just investors or people who want to live there?

I'm still wondering if there is a rising demand for "living in" condos in Charlotte. It seems like they keep building and speculators keep buying... to make money - not to live there. Is anyone going to live in the MetMidtown places? Or will it just be the "what were they thinking" area of Charlotte?

Currently I am still planning to live there, but I'm also really enjoying my location in Southend. I could eat my deposit and just stay where I am. I will pick out my "upgrades" on Wednesday. The assigned interior designer says that she thinks about half the people she has worked with are planning to live there. The other half are investors. Is that typical for Charlotte condos?

Let's hope a rising tide lifts all boats... and the economy will allow Charlotte real estate to continue to perform! Here's looking forward to a big decision in July 2008.

Yeh....they know how to create urgency, but there will be fallout... Southend currently has more "there there". It's a place. Pappas is a master at faking place. It's a Disney set. Self contained streetscape fakery and total abandonment of the surrounding context. Not to say that he's not good at it. He is. Given the limited context, I might turn inward as well... where I can control my destiny.....

On the other hand incorporating the Greenway is genius and it took a lot of work. Assuming the greenway buildout matures around this project it could be a fantastic connector to any number of destinations on foot or by bike.

[Conformity]

Thanks for the link, it was interesting. I found the entire complex to be rather uninspiring though. There is nothing innovative in the design and the boxy mass gives the whole development a cold hospital like look in my opinion. And apparently only people who have Audis, BMW's, or Mercedes will be allowed into The Metropolitan. Those were the only cars I saw featured in the video

You are correct........at $400 per foot....they are the only folks allowed and their will be spot checks for compliance.

[atlrvr]

I must say that I really did think some of the retail facades had promise, but I agree with most, the biggest let-down is the total abandonment of Kings Dr as an urban corridor. On thing that REALLY irked me is the "pull-in" parking spaces along Metropolitan Ave. If they had gone with parallel parking, it would seem significantly more urban. But then again, most people driving a G55 AMG probably can't even parallel park their vehicle. Still, two parallel spots then a bulbout would been urban enough to pass.

[DigitalSky]

I must say that I really did think some of the retail facades had promise, but I agree with most, the biggest let-down is the total abandonment of Kings Dr as an urban corridor. On thing that REALLY irked me is the "pull-in" parking spaces along Metropolitan Ave. If they had gone with parallel parking, it would seem significantly more urban. But then again, most people driving a G55 AMG probably can't even parallel park their vehicle. Still, two parallel spots then a bulbout would been urban enough to pass.

Think about the people who have the new Lexus LS... they won't have to parallel park because the car can automatically do it

It is a let down though about Kings though

[graydog]

If this has already been posted, I apologize, but I hadn't seen it yet...

http://www.collett.biz/Properties/Met-Video.aspx

No wonder this place is $400/SF - it will cost a fortune to pump in all that blue water from Lake Norman!

Wait until the buyers, bless their hearts, catch on to the fact that Little Sugar Creek has never and never will be anything other than light brown or dark brown. And then watch what happens when they find out it only gets to that depth twice a year: Spring flood rains and Fall hurricane season. 75% of the time it will be a 15'x15' funky smelling ditch.

I've been flabbergasted by developers before but come on. These people will say and do anything to sell you a condo.

Am I being unfair or upfront?

[JRNYP2C]

No wonder this place is $400/SF - it will cost a fortune to pump in all that blue water from Lake Norman!

Wait until the buyers, bless their hearts, catch on to the fact that Little Sugar Creek has never and never will be anything other than light brown or dark brown. And then watch what happens when they find out it only gets to that depth twice a year: Spring flood rains and Fall hurricane season. 75% of the time it will be a 15'x15' funky smelling ditch.

I've been flabbergasted by developers before but come on. These people will say and do anything to sell you a condo.

Am I being unfair or upfront?

I have to agree Graydog. I can only point to Freedom Park and the "beautification" of the creek through there. I remember when they were digging the whole thing up and winding it to make it more "natural".

I stopped in last year at one point in the summer and was quite amazed at how shoddy it looked now. It was overgrown and looked like it had been neglected.

In this case, I don't think natural = beautiful.

I used to work in advertising, and know the game. What the developers are selling ain't the truth!!

[Miesian Corners]

I was on the greenway Monday and thought it looked great. The idea behind "natural" is to use native plants to filter out all the crap we put in the creek. I'll take cleaner water in Sugar Creek over "faux" beautification.