SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[KJHburg]

when these 7-8 story apartment buildings are built near 3 story ones they look tall.  The Ackridge project on Dunavant and the Alliance project on South Blvd today. 

I remember where there was not one single person living on this street at least not in an apartment or house.  

[Guest]

20 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I can’t wrap my head around why this building was designed with such a large blank wall.

[SouthEndCLT811]

On 7/26/2023 at 7:29 PM, KJHburg said:

More from the CARY  Files (clue  background music now)  

a few more nuggets from RAM and their RFQ to the town of Cary about a project here in Southend.

remember they bought the South End Business Park at Clantion and 77 and S Tryon.

Well here it was they are telling the town of Cary they are planning there to build their case to the town of Cary:

""A 45-acre master-planned development in the heart of South
End, Charlotte. The new master plan will transform a dated 377K
sf office park into a vibrant 3M sf mixed-use development that
includes 475K sf of retail, 1.5M sf of residential, 910K sf of office,
and 290 hotel rooms.""

The Cary Files the biggest development file dump in the history of the state!  The IT director of the town of Cary reports many downloads from the Charlotte metro area for some reason! 

https://carync.app.box.com/s/o2lockq82x1yg8pkd3qozawvrhwjggoa/folder/214543092129 

 

Wonder if RAM's redevelopment of the business park has movement given this tweet..

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by SouthEndCLT811

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

Wonder if RAM's redevelopment of the business park has movement given this tweet..

 

If I was guessing I would say yes as there is not that much land controlled by one party in Southend or LoSo.  And the Cary files showed a big redevelopment of a town center like project there.  

[AltNative]

South end business park isn't really adjacent to Wilmore though. could he be talking about something else? Anyone know anything?

[DonkeyKong]

6 minutes ago, AltNative said:

South end business park isn't really adjacent to Wilmore though. could he be talking about something else? Anyone know anything?

Maybe the large lot on Tremont across from Pins Mechanical?

[Reverie39]

Is this referring to that gigantic plot of land between Remount and Tremont that previously just had some very low-density housing on it? Which is currently being demolished. It's right adjacent to both South End and Wilmore.

[videtur quam contuor]

If this is a Birkdale type development that stretches from 77 to Tryon on Clanton, then Clanton Park gonna EXPLODE! Buy now!

Zillow shows 9 properties.

[KJHburg]

48 minutes ago, Reverie39 said:

Is this referring to that gigantic plot of land between Remount and Tremont that previously just had some very low-density housing on it? Which is currently being demolished. It's right adjacent to both South End and Wilmore.

no we are talking about the business park at 77 and Clanton owned by RAM between 77 and S Tryon along Clanton Rd. 

[go_vertical]

Would this be the plot on the south side of Clanton next to the Circle K that has been going through what I assume is utility work for a couple of months?  I'm not sure if that is what they have been doing here, but for a while it kinda looked like a quarry and there have been a ton of large piping lying around.

[CLT Development]

1 hour ago, videtur quam contuor said:

If this is a Birkdale type development that stretches from 77 to Tryon on Clanton, then Clanton Park gonna EXPLODE! Buy now!

Zillow shows 9 properties.

this is a good point, @KJHburg I need to buy another house.

[KJHburg]

34 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

this is a good point, @KJHburg I need to buy another house.

homes are in the mid 300s to low 400s in this area and most of them are completely renovated 3/2 or 3/1 ranches.  

[CLT Development]

I am indeed talking South End Business Park, I should have said *cringe* LoSo

[RANYC]

Well, if this is a Birkdale Village-looking project, I'm all for it.  Sidebar: Would love to see these "urban villages" anchoring all our core center-city districts in the city and centered around a "public square gathering spot" to give these districts a sense of authentic civic identity/heritage through some sort of a public-private partnership  an incentivization framework. Just a thought.

Edited December 5, 2023 by RANYC

[Rufus]

This just makes me want to go back in time to 2010 and tell the city to build Scaleybark and New Bern Stations larger and better and more connected. If this comes to fruition, these stations are going to be leveraged heavily. 

[CLT Development]

20 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Well, if this is a Birkdale Village-looking project, I'm all for it.  Sidebar: Would love to see these "urban villages" anchoring all our core center-city districts in the city, centered around a public square to give these districts a sense of authentic civic identity/heritage in some sort of a public-private partnership.  Just a thought.

The Development numbers actually have it at quite a bit larger and definitely more urban than Birkdale. The site is only 6 acres smaller than Birkdale, and will have FAR LESS surface parking.

Edited December 5, 2023 by CLT Development

[RANYC]

32 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

The Development numbers actually have it at quite a bit larger and definitely more urban than Birkdale. The site is only 6 acres smaller than Birkdale, and will have FAR LESS surface parking.

In your opinion @CLT Development, which project will be more catalytic or come with the most "delta" so to speak: New Birkdale, or Queens Park Commons by Flywheel in North End?

Edited December 5, 2023 by RANYC

[jtmonk]

30 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

The Development numbers actually have it at quite a bit larger and definitely more urban than Birkdale. The site is only 6 acres smaller than Birkdale, and will have FAR LESS surface parking.

Could it be something similar to North Hills in Raleigh?  Maybe like North Hills and Birkdale combined, take the best of both and replicate it here.

[CLT Development]

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

In your opinion @CLT Development, which project will be more catalytic or come with the most "delta" so to speak: New Birkdale, or Queens Park Commons by Flywheel in North End?

Absolutely "New Birkdale." I have no confidence that the LaBella renderings for Queen Park Commons are actually what that project will look like. Flywheel owns 11.25 acres where Queen Park Commons will be, This RAM project is on 48 acres, the renderings I am looking at appear to have 7 residential buildings, a hotel, 4 office buildings, a grocery store and streets lined with retail.

Edited December 5, 2023 by CLT Development

[MarcoPolo]

CLT Development is right, this is much more impactful than not just Queen Park Commons, but most if not all of the suburban mixed use developments built of planned in metro Charlotte.  In fact, I'd venture to say, if RAM executes as they have envisioned, their development will serve as the benchmark for proper suburban mixed use planning in the region.    What they are looking to do is more akin to Ayrsley, its older, first generation mixed-use companion just down the road at South Tryon and I-485.   Much has evolved in the industry since Ayrsley was built, and many of the dearly held mantras of the older generation of mixed use builders have been replaced with the techniques and tools that permit plan execution at a much higher level today......for those willing to take the plunge.  I've been looking forward to this one for a while now.  Fingers crossed!    

[Guest]

I’m seeing a lot of you characterizing this as a suburban development, or at least comparing it to other ones. But based on location and what details CLTDevelopment shared, this seems definitionally urban to me. Am I wrong? That would make it the densest cluster in south end if it was hypothetically finished today 

[CLT Development]

1 hour ago, MothBeast said:

I’m seeing a lot of you characterizing this as a suburban development, or at least comparing it to other ones. But based on location and what details CLTDevelopment shared, this seems definitionally urban to me. Am I wrong? That would make it the densest cluster in south end if it was hypothetically finished today 

There will be some Suburban New Urbanist aspects to it, but it will indeed be quite urban. There seems to be one surface parking lot, but its for a grocery store.

[jjwilli]

4 hours ago, CLT Development said:

a grocery store

Big enough to be a Wegmans?

[MarcoPolo]

Hi MothBeast.  No, you are not wrong.   My description is the problem, lol!  

The RAM project is decidedly urban in character.  The proposed program, disposition of buildings on the site, and the detailing of the pedestrian realm are all decidedly urban.   Fingers crossed they pull it off as proposed!   One point to keep in mind, however.  Density is not the determining factor for being urban, and I purposefully did not call it out in the list of attributes above.  For example, China is very dense, yet almost none of the developments that have been built in and around its mega cities over the past 40 years can be categorized as "urban", ie: walkable, mixed, and sustainable.  RAM's plan is not urban because it is dense, it is urban because of its character.  

My use of the word "suburban" was to identify its location within the developed fabric of Charlotte.   The surrounding context is decidedly suburban.   The importance of such projects within suburban contexts rests in their ability to showcase the differences between urban and suburban place making.  If done correctly projects like RAM's serve to influence the latter to transition, over time, towards the sustainable and resilient character traits of the former.......very important for the world today.   The more RAM like projects developed in suburban contexts the more sustainable a city becomes.   Any metropolitan area with a built fabric majority suburban in character will struggle in the decades to come.   Bringing down the percentage of suburbia and increasing the percentage of urban fabric is akin to eating healthier.  A good diet cleanses the body and reduces the chances of all kinds of debilitating and even deadly afflictions.  Same with cities.   For these, the suburbs are the physical embodiment of a fast food diet.   Fine in small doses, but deadly as the main source of dietary consumption.   If RAM like projects can become more common place within the "shag carpet" of suburbs surrounding the handful of urban oases Charlotte has, the better Charlotte will become.   The Queen is has been feasting her bloated self on cakes and puddings far too long, lol!

You'll notice I typed "if done correctly" in bold font.   Charlotte has many Frankenstein examples of wanna-be "urban" developments.   To keep the diet/health analogy going, too many courses of reduced fat/sodium sausages and low carb mac and cheese, chased down with tasty diet sodas, lol!  Even with its makeover, Ballantyne is not urban.  The Lake District is not urban.  University Place is not urban.    Waverly is not urban.....the list goes on.   The tiny bit that is Sharon Square in Southpark is well executed, as is the Main Street at Birkdale Village with the adjoining apartments.  So to is Baxter Village.   Arsley was a valiant effort and a decent model.   If you want to go back in time to one of the first, there's Lake Park,  just outside Indian Trail.   Almost none of the techniques now common in mixed use development circles existed when Lake Park was designed and started.  It represented a huge leap of faith and is worthy of recognition.  RAM's project will significantly improve upon these.  I have high hopes!

[CLT Development]

13 hours ago, jjwilli said:

Big enough to be a Wegmans?

You know... I'm not sure, but it is a big building.