SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[atlrvr]

I think we will see a large price adjustment if all (or a majority) of the proposed apartment communities are built. I don't think there is that much demand at the prices quoted. They are essentially quadrupling the existing inventory and it will be all coming online within a one year time frame....utter insanity. It will be a great time to be a renter for those that are patient and wait for the 2-3 month free leases.

Most properites use a now use a system called yeild star which adjusts prices on a daily basis. It's sort of a screwy system, but HQ will get the automated message pretty clear about how much demand their is at these rents.

[Andyc545]

I think we will see a large price adjustment if all (or a majority) of the proposed apartment communities are built. I don't think there is that much demand at the prices quoted. They are essentially quadrupling the existing inventory and it will be all coming online within a one year time frame....utter insanity. It will be a great time to be a renter for those that are patient and wait for the 2-3 month free leases.

Most properites use a now use a system called yeild star which adjusts prices on a daily basis. It's sort of a screwy system, but HQ will get the automated message pretty clear about how much demand their is at these rents.

I don't doubt that they may come down some, but do you really think they will come down significantly? A lot of cheap apartments up here along W.T. Harris are still in the 700-900 dollar range for a one bedroom. A few hundred more to have a higher end, urban environment, car free, no commute, and walking distance to food and shops? Without crunching numbers, I would think that the premium on these brand new apartments at a few hundred more a month is on line with the premium to have a 300k condo that you could get for half the price out in the 'burbs. I am purely going on a viewpoint analysis, though, and am not utilizing any data, so you may be right .

[atlrvr]

It's not that I think that these rents aren't attainable at one or two properties....but 6? That's just a lot of supply for such a short amount of time....long term I don't doubt there is the demand, I just think short term, there will be some great deals.

[lewy2000]

I've owned a rental property in South End which would receive incredible interest anytime it became available for rent. A listing on Craigslist would generate mountains of email, many from out of state who were willing to sign a lease without even seeing the property (and not fraudsters -- I know how to filter those out!).

This is because the South End/Dilworth location is recognized as one of the premier neighborhoods in Charlotte.

As it exists today there is incredible demand. As we get a sense of how South End will exist tomorrow, I believe demand will continue to grow as the area itself grows and prospers.

[Charlotte_native]

I don't think they'll have any trouble renting these places. The slump of real estate sales has created a very tight rental market. LIke Lewy said above, I've posted two rental homes on Craigslist in Wilmore over the past 6 months and received a flood of inquiries and quickly and easily rented the homes (both were small, updated, 3 bedroom homes -- rents are $1100 / month each).

Since so many can't, or won't, buy right now, they still have to live somewhere. These rental rates may seem high at a glance, but 1 bedroom 'quad' units in Dilworth and Wilmore now easily bring $800 - $900 /month. 1 bedroom units where I live, 230 S. Tryon, bring in up to $2000/month.

One result of the current market conditions, some lowering sales prices but rising rental rates.

[palmetto75]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, it seems that Tradition at New Bern apartments proposed for Foster Ave will likely be scrapped due to the death of the president of the development firm, Steve Walsh.

My condolences to the family, and my disappointment that the most architecturally interesting apartment proposal probably won't happen.

With it now being called a suicide and all kinds of alleged embezzling/money issues I think this site will be dead for a number of years unfortunately.

On a side note, when I saw that the property sold for +$9mill as a Brownfield I thought this would be the high water mark of the great South End Land Grab. Now that eerily looks to be the case.

Edited August 6, 2008 by palmetto75

[atlrvr]

In other news....Post Properties has dropped plans for their deal on the Greenhawk land. Those are 2 down, and I expect Chelsea to follow....

I call it good news, as it will limit the insane amount of suppy headed that way.....nothing is worse for development that for a couple of deals to tank. Better that 3 deals die and the market remain strong, than for 9 deals to fail....nothing would be built for a decade.

[sleightofhand]

In other news....Post Properties has dropped plans for their deal on the Greenhawk land. Those are 2 down, and I expect Chelsea to follow....

I call it good news, as it will limit the insane amount of suppy headed that way.....nothing is worse for development that for a couple of deals to tank. Better that 3 deals die and the market remain strong, than for 9 deals to fail....nothing would be built for a decade.

Which location was Post Properties going?

[MZT]

A tile contractor told me today that Laufen Tile (near the LRV maintenance facility) will close. He said it's mainly a matter of their business alignment, to be less direct-to-consumer. But I would presume this will put another parcel in play.

Edited August 7, 2008 by MZT

[sleightofhand]

I REALLY like this design... I agree with the others, this is something that will fit in nice in Southend. If I'm looking at this correctly, this is right next to Blue Line? What street intersects it? For whatever reason, I can't quite picture it.

It will be on the corner of Griffith and Poindexter.

[Mobuchu]

I'm sure others have mentioned this before, but after driving through the area and riding the Blue line, I love what Ashton does for Southend. It is currently out of scale with the rest of the area, but with the projects around Bland St and more infill happening just south of Tremont, I dont think that will be an issue in the future. It's becoming a center piece for Southend, and a great bookend for Camden Rd. Almost giving Southend a better sense of place since you can see it coming into the neighborhood from all directions. I'm skeptical however of how it will address the street, as others have pointed out low expectations. Still holding out hope for an attractive building though, let's hope.

[Spartan]

I agree. In terms of general design it will add a lot to the area. Does anyone know how much retail is the Ashton supposed to have?

[Guest]

I agree. In terms of general design it will add a lot to the area. Does anyone know how much retail is the Ashton supposed to have?

Originally around 10k sq feet. But from what I'm hearing now, 0.

[Spartan]

Damn. That sucks big time. That location at the intersection would be awesome. Its ironic, given the volume of units that they are adding, along with the other developments its in SouthEnd.

[Guest]

Damn. That sucks big time. That location at the intersection would be awesome. Its ironic, given the volume of units that they are adding, along with the other developments its in SouthEnd.

Well that 10k sq feet of retail seems to have been sacrificed for a leasing office for Ashton. Lets hope I'm wrong, it has definately happened before.

[Andyc545]

It could have really benefited by having a small grocer at the bottom and possibly a coffee shop. With all of the residents in that building alone, it could be supported, let alone activity from the light rail. It's design is very likable and it is going to bring a lot of residents in S. End. It's always been a favorite location with Pike's and that Camden Strip. Hopefully we can see more locals places that are currently on Camden extend along Tremont, since it looks like the ground floor of Ashton will be neglected. Also some more infil along Camden in a few remaining spaces would make this quite a distinct little stroll cooridor. There's a lot of opportunities all along Tremont all the way up to S Tryon.

nibble- I have heard the same thing, unfortunatly. The original designs had 10k sq ft at the corner of Camden and Hawkins but now is for leasing. Maybe they will fully lease it out so that they will have no use and reconvert it .

Edited August 13, 2008 by Andyc545

[rockhilljames]

With the city wanting Camden to be a stroll district, I would think that retail would have been a requirement.

[Guest]

It could have really benefited by having a small grocer at the bottom and possibly a coffee shop. With all of the residents in that building alone, it could be supported, let alone activity from the light rail. It's design is very likable and it is going to bring a lot of residents in S. End. It's always been a favorite location with Pike's and that Camden Strip. Hopefully we can see more locals places that are currently on Camden extend along Tremont, since it looks like the ground floor of Ashton will be neglected. Also some more infil along Camden in a few remaining spaces would make this quite a distinct little stroll cooridor. There's a lot of opportunities all along Tremont all the way up to S Tryon.

nibble- I have heard the same thing, unfortunatly. The original designs had 10k sq ft at the corner of Camden and Hawkins but now is for leasing. Maybe they will fully lease it out so that they will have no use and reconvert it .

The only thing I wonder is how big does a leasing office really need to be, 1500-2000 sq feet, most likely. Honestly it shouldn't be any bigger than an apartment in the place, where is the other 8000 sq feet going?

[Andyc545]

The only thing I wonder is how big does a leasing office really need to be, 1500-2000 sq feet, most likely. Honestly it shouldn't be any bigger than an apartment in the place, where is the other 8000 sq feet going?

Above I meant Tremont and Hawkins, not Camden. Nibble, I had heard the whole space was going to be for leasing, office, associated space with the apts, not retail. I hope this is wrong. It seems like such a wasted opportunity; the whole ground floor fronting Tremont should be retail space to properly place this property at the crown of Camden, aside from maybe the inlet space with the main entrance.

[Guest]

Above I meant Tremont and Hawkins, not Camden. Nibble, I had heard the whole space was going to be for leasing, office, associated space with the apts, not retail. I hope this is wrong. It seems like such a wasted opportunity; the whole ground floor fronting Tremont should be retail space to properly place this property at the crown of Camden, aside from maybe the inlet space with the main entrance.

Yea i know it will be all leasing as well. I just don't believe a 10k sq ft. leasing office is practical what so ever. Especially when they could make money on their space.

[atlrvr]

In some positive news....it seems the powers that be got the message that Circle at South End was fugly.

Center City Partners has a revised rendering up (along with a smaller elevation of the old facade).

While the site plan is still boring, and doesn't engage the street, I'm not sure I can call this a commie-block development.

Driving by the site last week, the arched metal beams seem to confirm this latest rendering is reality.

CCCP Info Page (.pdf)

[lewy2000]

In some positive news....it seems the powers that be got the message that Circle at South End was fugly.

Thanks for the update. I've been wondering if they'd changed the design because of those metal arches at the corner of Bland and South.

I've gotta say, I think I've changed my opinion about this project. The height/scope fits in perfectly with the buildings north/south of it, and all those new tenants will be a nice addition to this part of South End.

I think you have to give kudos to Crescent Resources for planning for the down economy, and building apartments instead of condos.

[Mobuchu]

Aahhh, much better (although thats not saying much). Alot more glass, metal, brick and other materials to break up the facade. Looks like they used fencing instead of wall in front of the courtyards. Still not great but much better for pedestrians.

Is it me or does the facade look like a cheap version of Southborough?

Edited August 13, 2008 by Mobuchu

[Guest]

I agree that this is a much better project now. Definately not as much of a commie block I think it will get some more life into the area hopefully. Its certainly an improvement over the field that was there.

[cltheel.sdl]

I agree that it looks better. On another note, does anyone else think the massive number of pedestrians in the rendering is hilarious? I especially like the man in the blue shorts crossing in the middle of the street. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I thought it was funny...