SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[RiverwoodCLT]

I do not see the price of the Arlington codos take a hit because of 1200 South Blvd. It is in a good location and to public transportation. In New York City, there are tall towers every where, and the only place I would think the some of the highest price condos would be are by Central Park. The Arlington is by South Blvd. and the South Blue Line, not by a park so I do not see any value decrease.

The price for the TradeMark condos is not going down because of the Novare projects or when the Vue gets built. If we take what the people in the Arlington want, nothing else would be built over 2 stores because it would block someone's view. The Arlington is part of the view.

Edited July 22, 2008 by RiverwoodCLT

[Raintree21]

I could see a short-term, knee-jerk reaction that would result in a temporary drop in prices but in the long run, it will result in higher values instead. More people means more in the area means more demand which means more services and amenities in the area.

[palmetto75]

I agree that the drop will most likley be short term and ultimately this is good for the area and Arlington owners. However, short term in real estate can be 5 yrs. The question is will this decison cause all the owners who fear loosing their beloved "view" to panic sell. Afterall at least from what has been presented here and in the media the only reason they bought was b/c of the view. Maybe thats why nobody showed up to protest. Damage control time. Maybe now the HOA should spend their efforts promoting some of the other pluses of the location such as Nikkos, Lynx stop, etc.

[ChiefJoJo]

As development begins to take up land near the South Blue line the pressure will be go higher because of price of land and space available. And the closer you get to uptown do not be surprise to see a 30 stories + going up one of these days. What we are looking at is the best use of the land.

Sure, but we are nowhere near full buildout of the TOD areas on the south corridor, not to mention plenty of Uptown surface lots waiting for a skyscraper. The market for office, residential, retail on the corridor is not limitless. I think, as an individual case, there are a number of good reasons to support a rezoning to 230ft at a location very close to downtown and near a transit line, so I can understand the rationale.

But, one must consider the unintended consequences of this action. City councils change every 2 years, and this now sets a precident that the well-thought out TOD station area guidelines and recently adopted small areas plans can be easily ignored if the project/price is right. How does one ensure that a future council is disciplined enough to resist rezoning a parcel that is in close proximity to SF homes (say Dilworth or Wilmore), when a plan in place that set the reasonable limits on building scale is ignored? You can't, but establishing a precident for the action certainly makes that scenario much more likely... not to mention the market influencing aspects of this. Especially considering the ease with which this sailed through, I think the unspoken message is sent that the time, money and effort that went into the community planning process isn't worth much.

It seems to me this isn't the right time to break with the plans for the area, when there are so many other parcels left to redevelop up and down the corridor. No one knows for certain, but this could delay the redevelopment of other parcels who want to get in on the action. Why would developer X build a nice 8-story mixed use project, when you can hold out for 20 stories? Not to mention, Harris has already taken a bigger chunk of the market share, and probably raised the going rate for land. IMO, those are not positive trends for the continued redevelopment of the corridor.

[dubone]

I missed this point in my first reading of the article. NO ONE came to speak in opposition. Now, that is more than an official petition against by the HOA or anything organized. I mean, if you've seen a city council meeting, you know that all sorts of people come to speak up for or against any number of things. If this is such a concern that people have contacted the newspaper to get an article that they didn't even mount any sort of opposition in front of the city council. Absurd.

[uptownliving]

Lets have a little Rezoning 101 as it seems there are a number of people that are confused about people speaking out against this Rezoning at the City Council meeting.

The Rezoning process has 2 stages at the City Council level....the Hearing and the Decision. Typically the Hearing and Decision are held at seperate meetings about a month apart.

At the Hearing is when you have all the people that show up to speak in favor of and against the Rezoning. At the Decision there is no public input it is simply a vote by the City Council. Sometimes Council members will speak at Decisions to explain their vote...but most of the time they just vote.

So for this particular Rezoning at the Hearing back in June there were a number of people that showed up to speak out against this Rezoning. There was also a number of questions from Council members for people speaking in oppostion and in favor of the Petition. The meeting yesterday was the Decision....No one is allowed to speak at the Decision unless a Council member has a question for Staff or the Developer. For this particular Rezoning there were no questions and they voted...no Council member explained their vote and they moved on.

[dubone]

That answers that then, although it is a little sad that the Observer didn't frame that for people who don't pay attention.

Did anyone speak out during the hearing?

[Charlotte_native]

Lets have a little Rezoning 101 as it seems there are a number of people that are confused about people speaking out against this Rezoning at the City Council meeting.

The Rezoning process has 2 stages at the City Council level....the Hearing and the Decision. Typically the Hearing and Decision are held at seperate meetings about a month apart.

At the Hearing is when you have all the people that show up to speak in favor of and against the Rezoning. At the Decision there is no public input it is simply a vote by the City Council. Sometimes Council members will speak at Decisions to explain their vote...but most of the time they just vote.

So for this particular Rezoning at the Hearing back in June there were a number of people that showed up to speak out against this Rezoning. There was also a number of questions from Council members for people speaking in oppostion and in favor of the Petition. The meeting yesterday was the Decision....No one is allowed to speak at the Decision unless a Council member has a question for Staff or the Developer. For this particular Rezoning there were no questions and they voted...no Council member explained their vote and they moved on.

All quite true, but if you've ever been to a council meeting that is making a decision for a controversial project there are quite often audience members (often in great numbers) in the room with placards, shirts, and other means of 'speaking' up about what is being decided. The article didn't mention if this was the case, I wonder if it was or if really no one opposed showed up at all.

[JBGB]

I talked with the people at Metro Paws on S. Tryon the other day when I was out on a walk with my dog. They said they are moving to Remount because someone has bought there property. These people have also bought the Terminix building and are trying to buy up the whole block to make a high rise condo. Does anyone know anyting about this? Who it is or what there plans may be?

I've also heard rumors that Brookhill Apartments has stopped renuing leases. Some say there is a plan for a new community that will be houses and townhomes for qualified people. Anyone know about this?

[atlrvr]

At one point Hanover Co., the people doing Ashton South End apartments were pursuing this block...I don't know if that is still the case.

I don't know about any current suitors for Brookhills specifically, but know that a hold up has been the land lease that has about ~50 years left on it. It will make it very difficuly to finance for-sale housing there. My personal opinion is the area hasn't matured enough to make that leap across South Tryon, espcially the distance that site is to a LRT station. There needs to be some additional infill in the Tremont and Remount corridors before I think Brookhills is reasonable.

[voyager12]

Common Market had a booth at Charlotte Pride on Saturday. Their store in Southend is going to be across from Phat Burrito next to the field where Tailgate Market is. They hope to open in early Fall. Isn't there a gallery or studio something in place right now?

[Charlotte_native]

Common Market had a booth at Charlotte Pride on Saturday. Their store in Southend is going to be across from Phat Burrito next to the field where Tailgate Market is. They hope to open in early Fall. Isn't there a gallery or studio something in place right now?

It is a vacant slot in the building that has a salon in the other part.

[voyager12]

Thanks for the info...I am excited, should be a great addition to Camden.

[sleightofhand]

I talked with the people at Metro Paws on S. Tryon the other day when I was out on a walk with my dog. They said they are moving to Remount because someone has bought there property.

Where on Remount is Metro Paws moving? Silos district?

[JBGB]

Where on Remount is Metro Paws moving? Silos district?

I beleave it's across I-77 on the right after you cross the bridge. The guy said they were removing alot of trees and leveling the land. I think this is the place I've seen.

I hope it's not around the Silo's but I'm pretty sure it won't. That would suck watching a movie on the lawn with dog's barking and the smell of poop in the air.

[atlrvr]

Conceptual rendering of high-rise tower at Silos at South End. Ooooh....ahhhh.

[tozmervo]

FMK has gotta love that they're designing this tower that's going in just feet from their new one-story office (which, btw, started installing some rather nifty railing today).

[krazeeboi]

I'm just loving the midrise density coming to SouthEnd. Between the Silos residential tower and SouthHaus, a fitting gateway to SouthEnd will have been created.

[rockhilljames]

To me that's more of a mid-rise... but I likey.

[atlrvr]

Eh....17 stories or so but fat Lowrise in Dubai, Midrise in Boston, Highrise in Gastonia....

Whatever we call it, its visually much more appealing than what that area has historically been, and its a lot of new residents, though I question if a single building of several hundred units in an emerging location will be able to meet pre-sell goals.

I like the general design theme (though am aware it is likely to change), but these are going to have to be price pretty aggressively in my opinion to get going. However, this "tower" is phase 3 I think, so perhaps once the intial phases are completed along with the adjacent apartment projects, this won't be such a pioneering location.

[HopHead]

Conceptual rendering of high-rise tower at Silos at South End. Ooooh....ahhhh.

I REALLY like this design... I agree with the others, this is something that will fit in nice in Southend. If I'm looking at this correctly, this is right next to Blue Line? What street intersects it? For whatever reason, I can't quite picture it.

[tozmervo]

I REALLY like this design... I agree with the others, this is something that will fit in nice in Southend. If I'm looking at this correctly, this is right next to Blue Line? What street intersects it? For whatever reason, I can't quite picture it.

I wouldn't feel bad - none of those streets exist yet. The Poindexter Extension can be seen in the foreground crossing the blue line. You can also see the Silos in the bottom of both renderings

[atlrvr]

They have three different red brick themes goining on here...hopefully this turns out well and not chaotic.

[tozmervo]

From the O:

Leases at Millennium will range from $1,100 to $2,300 a month, with an average around $1,500 a month. Apartments will range from 725 to 1,250 square feet for one- and two-bedroom units.

Is there really that much demand for apartments this expensive, especially when you factor in Circle and Ashton? There's a point where you might as well be paying a mortgage. Or at least be paying that much for an uptown apartment.

[Andyc545]

From the O:

Leases at Millennium will range from $1,100 to $2,300 a month, with an average around $1,500 a month. Apartments will range from 725 to 1,250 square feet for one- and two-bedroom units.

Is there really that much demand for apartments this expensive, especially when you factor in Circle and Ashton? There's a point where you might as well be paying a mortgage. Or at least be paying that much for an uptown apartment.

Most of the apartments are in this range in S. End. I posted figues a while back on the prices of all of the projects in S. End. Ashton is even more than those of the Millenium. Is there demand... obviously else these wouldn't be built. I think S. End is a hot area for young professionals that are just beginning to work, have nice new salaries, but don't have the credit to get a first home, nor a desire, or possibly aren't sure if they will stay in the area yet. Versus uptown, I think S. End caters to a different demographic. Seems to be some that desire having a little more room and lower to the ground but have immediate access to uptowns big city feel. Just my thoughts though.