SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[rooster8]

The condo building probably looks like a lot of other buildings, but I remember seeing this one in Pittsburgh that is similar:

[uptownliving]

My beef is that the sidewalk/plaza just seems like wasteland, and all that concrete along Carson blvd will be in perpetual shade to boot. It's like they just decided to just pave over the land that was left over after determining a building footprint - it has no integration into the street at all. We've already got plenty of that uptown without adding to it in South End.

Additionally, it looks like both entrances/exits into the deck are off South Blvd. That stretch of South already gets messy with people tearing out of uptown in the evening (just try crossing at Bland and count how many people run the light in a desperate attempt to get back to the suburbs as fast as possible). I wonder how they plan to contend with cars making a left out of the complex.

There are more detailed renderings here that show the sidewalk area will have considerable plantings and that there will be an auto entrance on Carson.

I do agree this complex is rather ho hum architecturally and think they should draw the building up a little closer to Carson. However the zoning requires a certain amount of "urban open space" which I think they could have done a better job with instead of stretching it out along Carson. Harris/LS3P could have put the urban open space all together creating a mini park at the corner of the LRT and Carson....but these renderings are just conecptual in nature and a lot could and probably will change before something is built.

Edited November 17, 2008 by uptownliving

[Andyc545]

There are more detailed renderings here that show the sidewalk area will have considerable plantings and that there will be an auto entrance on Carson.

Theoretically couldn't some of that open sidewalk space be converted for outdoor restaurant seating?

[atlrvr]

I'm glad we are getting an urban sidewalk along Carson as opposed to the horrendous planting strips that litter our urban streetscapes.

The office building certainly look suburban to me, but I don't mind the residential tower. We don't have any brick towers that tall, and it offers decent variety, between the pre-cast/glass office building and the pink Arlington. As far as the lack of views, I know they were shopping the site to apartment developers, so I doubt they go the condo route.

I'm most anxious to the see the Ambrose Collection hotel.

[krazeeboi]

I can't really determine if the office building will be more suburban-looking or not due to the lack of color in the rendering. I also think the actual tint of the glass might make a difference also.

[atlrvr]

The suburban look comes from two things.....the pre-cast concrete "banding" at every floor between the glass, which emphasizes the second factor, it's basically as wide as it is tall. Both contribute to the squat, boxy, suburban look.

If this was all glass, and no horizontal concrete bands with some sort of vertical roof-line feature, its would look much more urban.

[voyager12]

^ This spells out my reaction to it. To me the building screams out suburban office park.

[dubone]

The design of the actual buildings is extremely generic and reminiscent of the designs of generic suburban office projects, but using 'suburban' as the description is a bit off point, I believe. How can a transit-oriented 15 story office building with urban streetscape, street-supportive retail, and an attached 20 story residential an 13 story hotel be described by the term 'suburban' simply because of horizontal stripes and mediocre architecture?

I guess I'm bumping up on the ceiling of my pay grade here, but at the end of the day, land-use and density and functional design that is supportive of pedestrianism is what defines 'urban' to me far more than quality of architecture. We all prefer buildings that are interesting, but to me, much of what makes a city great is having lots of buildings, some interesting and some bland buildings that fade into the background.

It has been heavily argued on here how there are so many projects that have interesting or famous architecture, but whose functionality is detracting at the street level (the Nascar Hall of Fame being one new example).

I'm not criticizing the criticism, as it is well placed on this project, but my counterpoint is that we need boring urban buildings just as much as we need the opposite, and being boring does not make it less urban.

[ChiefJoJo]

I guess we each have our own definitions of "urban." When I refer to urban, I am thinking about urban form. So long as the building addresses the street (or transit line), oriented to favor pedestrian access over auto access (i.e., no front door off-street parking), then it's urban. I think good urban design is important, but I am a bigger proponent of a major expansion of urban form in our mostly suburban auto-friendly sunbelt cities which lack it so severely.

I wonder why they placed the office building in front of the residential, blocking the uptown views? I would have thought the views would be more important for the residential units.

[krazeeboi]

^I agree with you guys in that I tend to define "urban" more in terms of function than architecture, but the point concerning the architecture is well-taken also. I'll reserve judgment about the architecture until I see more renderings.

[dubone]

As nibletodell corrected himself on, the condo tower here will still have some degree of skyline views. My guess is that they put the office tower there as it is probably going to be a more significant source of revenue and having the skyline views in that will be a major selling point.

[atlrvr]

Again, I just want to clarify the point that it is proposed an apartment tower, not a condo tower. With this in mind, the discount for non-skyline views would be less than if this were a for sale project.

As far as suburban vs. urban, I'm in agreement of what others have said about urban form, I guess my point is that the design could be "fixed" without much effort or additional expense.

As far as whether a building's design makes a difference, what is the general opinion of the BellSouth (AT&T?) building at Brevard and MLK. It is 15 stories, adjacent to a LRT station, and has ground floor retail, though I don't feel that it adds much to the urban environment due its overall aesthetics.

[UrbanFuture]

Again, I just want to clarify the point that it is proposed an apartment tower, not a condo tower. With this in mind, the discount for non-skyline views would be less than if this were a for sale project.

I know this won't change the discount system, but I'm under the impression that the non-skyline views are actually more valued by residents (avenue/trademark) than the city views are. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I think that the non-skyline views will be great.

Edit: Apparently I can't type or correctly read my post before hitting submit tonight, my apologies.

Edited November 18, 2008 by QCkid

[JBGB]

Ashton is bringing down there big crane.

Before you know it the light rail will look like were in Asia craming people in to get Uptown.

[dubone]

That is a very good point. These are basically sunset views, with some of the skyline as bonus when on the balcony. (Plus, units facing 2inthepink's unit get all sunset all the time care of Jim Gross).

[WonderWoman]

Ok, I finally have a concrete answer to what is being built across the street from the Block at Church Street townhomes. As atlrvr posted previously, it will be an apartment complex called 1225 South Church Apartments. It will be two four story, 200 unit apartment buildings. They are aiming for LEED certification on the buildings. Here is an article that was published about it:

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...6898000^1732756

Edited November 20, 2008 by WonderWoman

[palmetto75]

Colonial has put up a job sign along South Blvd

I'm excited to see something finally go here as I remember seeing HH Hunt's proposal over 3 years ago for this site. One of their stated excuses for not going fwrd was inability to structure the parking cost effectively.

Unfortunately all the REITs are in pretty dire shape right now with new development being one of the main issues dragging them down. Colonial is in especially rough waters. Somehow I think this sign is going to get a little crusty as it sits there for the next 2 years.

Edited November 20, 2008 by palmetto75

[dubone]

Yeah, I think a sign going up is just to keep it in people's mind while they wait it out.

A thought that I've been having lately is that it is probably a decent thing to let the apartment projects come online a bit slower, to help sustain rents a bit. We haven't needed the TOD as much as we thought to fill the train, so it is probably for the better to have some of these project stall until a few years from now when the capacity additions will have been done to the line.

[Andyc545]

Yeah, I think a sign going up is just to keep it in people's mind while they wait it out.

A thought that I've been having lately is that it is probably a decent thing to let the apartment projects come online a bit slower, to help sustain rents a bit. We haven't needed the TOD as much as we thought to fill the train, so it is probably for the better to have some of these project stall until a few years from now when the capacity additions will have been done to the line.

That's a good point, actually. Hopefully we will see those 3 train platforms come online about the time the next swing of apartments along the light rail line are available (thinking after the ones that are ready to begin rents in 2009). The demand has been so high on the light rail that it really can't handle a huge influx of riders that could be made from the original 10ish apartment complexes that were proposed in S. End.

[tozmervo]

I don't know if any other structurally-inclined folks (or, at least, folks with common sense) have looked at them, but the balconies on Circle look... unsafe. A few of them look like they're already sagging. Looking at the underside of unfinished balconies, it looks remarkably like the wood trusses are not supported by anything except fasteners connecting the trusses to adjacent walls. That is, the trusses aren't actually resting on anything, so the loads are going right into the shear connections. I may not be seeing everything, but I hope a code official takes a slightly closer look at those than normal.

[UrbanFuture]

I don't know if any other structurally-inclined folks (or, at least, folks with common sense) have looked at them, but the balconies on Circle look... unsafe. A few of them look like they're already sagging. Looking at the underside of unfinished balconies, it looks remarkably like the wood trusses are not supported by anything except fasteners connecting the trusses to adjacent walls. That is, the trusses aren't actually resting on anything, so the loads are going right into the shear connections. I may not be seeing everything, but I hope a code official takes a slightly closer look at those than normal.

Funny you say that... I thought the same exact thing when I was looking at them this morning. Scary.

[voyager12]

I love seeing the new density along South these projects bring. It's especially evident and quite "urban" feeling to me on the block before the Pink building.

This growth needs to bring more dining, supermarket, and retail options in Southend. The mostly locally owned businesses present right now are great but it's not a fully functioning neighborhood yet. In the sense that residents have to go elsewhere for many errands and services. The new apartments are going to be filled with recent college grads so hopefully more diverse retail options will follow them.

[Charlotte_native]

I love seeing the new density along South these projects bring. It's especially evident and quite "urban" feeling to me on the block before the Pink building.

This growth needs to bring more dining, supermarket, and retail options in Southend. The mostly locally owned businesses present right now are great but it's not a fully functioning neighborhood yet. In the sense that residents have to go elsewhere for many errands and services. The new apartments are going to be filled with recent college grads so hopefully more diverse retail options will follow them.

I agree. It is going to be pretty interesting to see the changes in the area when the 1000+ apartments between Ideal Way and 277 are finished. The gaps are filling quickly. It also appears that a number of new apartment complexes are being initiated in the area dispite the economy (once again builders didn't just stop building, just adjusted to demain -- not many buyers, plenty of renters). The empty blocks between Wilmore and uptown have had at least one announcement of new apartments, expect a couple more in the next month or two.

I do agree, though, that more neighborhood services slots need to be included, we are about to have too few shopping and dining options in the immediate area to satify the multitude of new residents.

[rockhilljames]

Has anyone heard rumors of a grocery store chain looking in South End?

[voyager12]

^ No, but that would be a great addition. The closest option for now is the organic market on South but it's prices and selection are not mainstream.

I suppose it will all eventually evolve in time, the neighborhood focused haunts set to open in the Silos district soon will hopefully give that area another boost.

Edited December 9, 2008 by voyager12