SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[CLTProductions]

52 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

It's a beautiful building, and I appreciate that the developers took the time to really create something beautiful.

 

But I hate this project.

I know the scale is apples to oranges, but do you hate something like this? And I hate to news flash everyone but Common Market sucked. Cool venue sure, but everything was overpriced (including the insanely overrated sandwiches) and the outside was an ashtray.

[SgtCampsalot]

7 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

I know the scale is apples to oranges, but do you hate something like this? And I hate to news flash everyone but Common Market sucked. Cool venue sure, but everything was overpriced (including the insanely overrated sandwiches) and the outside was an ashtray.

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by SgtCampsalot

[ah59396]

34 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

I know the scale is apples to oranges, but do you hate something like this? And I hate to news flash everyone but Common Market sucked. Cool venue sure, but everything was overpriced (including the insanely overrated sandwiches) and the outside was an ashtray.

That's not a news flash, it's your opinion. And while it may not have been your cup of tea, it was for a lot of us.  I get that you don't have a personal connection with any of these places, but many do.  Most of the places I lament losing were here long before you (and me in some cases).

 

just try to remember that for Many Charlotteans, these places mean something.

[CLTProductions]

27 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

That's not a news flash, it's your opinion. And while it may not have been your cup of tea, it was for a lot of us.  I get that you don't have a personal connection with any of these places, but many do.  Most of the places I lament losing were here long before you (and me in some cases).

 

just try to remember that for Many Charlotteans, these places mean something.

I totally get that they mean things to people, I do. I just also think that in any other city no one would be upset over leaving the buildings. It's more of a statement on the sad state of Charlotte that we have destroyed so much that it comes down to these, unremarkable (for all intents and purposes) buildings to be the grandstand. 

And for the record, it's an inarguable fact that CM's patio was smoker central/ash tray, and the sandwiches were glorified boars head sandwiches you could get at HT lolol

Edited August 25, 2016 by Jayvee

[KJHburg]

what by the way is the update with Common Market? do they have a new location yet?

[lewy2000]

1 hour ago, Jayvee said:

I know the scale is apples to oranges, but do you hate something like this? And I hate to news flash everyone but Common Market sucked. Cool venue sure, but everything was overpriced (including the insanely overrated sandwiches) and the outside was an ashtray

Go easy on him, guys. Jayvee has always been a cocktail guy. 

[SgtCampsalot]

18 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

what by the way is the update with Common Market? do they have a new location yet?

Just overheard update the other day: Oakhurst location near the Suds'n'Duds. 

[Guest]

Looks remarkable to me. I've never experienced the ash tray/smoker thing. Never once. Never had an unpleasant experience in that space. I love it so much, that I've spent only 5 hours in Charlotte and 4.5 was spent there. Yes the sandwiches suck pretty bad.... But that space is amazing and unique and soon to be gone forever. 

[Niner National]

2 hours ago, Jayvee said:

I totally get that they mean things to people, I do. I just also think that in any other city no one would be upset over leaving the buildings. It's more of a statement on the sad state of Charlotte that we have destroyed so much that it comes down to these, unremarkable (for all intents and purposes) buildings to be the grandstand. 

And for the record, it's an inarguable fact that CM's patio was smoker central/ash tray, and the sandwiches were glorified boars head sandwiches you could get at HT lolol

I agree about the sandwiches, but the patio was great. I loved drinking there.

[CLTProductions]

 .

Edited August 25, 2016 by Jayvee

[nonillogical]

10 hours ago, Jayvee said:

I totally get that they mean things to people, I do. I just also think that in any other city no one would be upset over leaving the buildings. It's more of a statement on the sad state of Charlotte that we have destroyed so much that it comes down to these, unremarkable (for all intents and purposes) buildings to be the grandstand. 

And for the record, it's an inarguable fact that CM's patio was smoker central/ash tray, and the sandwiches were glorified boars head sandwiches you could get at HT lolol

Have to vehemently disagree on all of this. Even if the loss of these buildings wouldn't be felt strongly in other cities that kept more like them, is that a good reason for us to shrug our shoulders when we lose some of our very few?

I always took out of town visitors to CM, and we usually brought the dogs and hung out on the patio. Their reaction was always the same. "Why don't we have something like this in my city?" CM is one of a few true Charlotte original concepts, or at least managed to cultivate an atmosphere that set it completely apart from other bottle shops and somewhat similar places. Rhino Market is essentially the same concept, and while I like it and their sandwiches are better, it doesn't hold a candle to the personality of CM and I don't love hanging out there like I did CM (thank god we still have one in PM, though the outdoor space can't compete). I've heard you rag on anything with the slightest amount of grit before, so I'm not surprised that you never valued the place, but CM wasn't exclusively the cigarette smoker and hipster flop house you seem to think it was; it appealed to an extremely diverse crowd, hosted the kind of events we ALL wish this city had more of, and was the most authentic urban hangout spot perhaps in the whole city. 

[Guest]

I have to ask guys, as someone who is equally passionate about this project. How many of you showed up to the meetings where they introduced the first concept and then returned to the one where they presented the second? I feel like change could have happened had there been some numbers. I keep seeing people crying over the loss on here and on instagram, but I gotta ask, did anyone actually try to stop it?

Jayvee actually brought about the redesign and the initial public outcry with his Charlotte Agenda article (that i drew the siteplan for ;-) ) He helped bring about a lot of change. So don't give him too much crap. 

[ah59396]

26 minutes ago, nonillogical said:

Have to vehemently disagree on all of this. Even if the loss of these buildings wouldn't be felt strongly in other cities that kept more like them, is that a good reason for us to shrug our shoulders when we lose some of our very few?

I always took out of town visitors to CM, and we usually brought the dogs and hung out on the patio. Their reaction was always the same. "Why don't we have something like this in my city?" CM is one of a few true Charlotte original concepts, or at least managed to cultivate an atmosphere that set it completely apart from other bottle shops and somewhat similar places. Rhino Market is essentially the same concept, and while I like it and their sandwiches are better, it doesn't hold a candle to the personality of CM and I don't love hanging out there like I did CM (thank god we still have one in PM, though the outdoor space can't compete). I've heard you rag on anything with the slightest amount of grit before, so I'm not surprised that you never valued the place, but CM wasn't exclusively the cigarette smoker and hipster flop house you seem to think it was; it appealed to an extremely diverse crowd, hosted the kind of events we ALL wish this city had more of, and was the most authentic urban hangout spot perhaps in the whole city. 

 

Nailed it.  I loved the diversity of that place, my wife and I took her parents to CM to hang out in that "ashtray" when they came in from Texas and they couldn't stop raving about how cool they thought it was.  It was featured during the DNC as part of our "Third Spaces" concept.  As nonillogical says, it's a truly Charlotte concept.  I'd rather have ten more of them than what's going there.

 

 

[CLTProductions]

8 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I have to ask guys, as someone who is equally passionate about this project. How many of you showed up to the meetings where they introduced the first concept and then returned to the one where they presented the second? I feel like change could have happened had there been some numbers. I keep seeing people crying over the loss on here and on instagram, but I gotta ask, did anyone actually try to stop it?

Jayvee actually brought about the redesign and the initial public outcry with his Charlotte Agenda article (that i drew the siteplan for ;-) ) He helped bring about a lot of change. So don't give him too much crap. 

Thanks boss. And I understand there are plenty of people that DID show up to the meetings. But the momentum was 100% lost and it came down to people just complaining from their offices and couches rather than doing anything about it. That's my ENTIRE issue with this whole thing. 

 

Look at what the Elizabeth neighborhood was able to accomplish with an already great project. Do people really think we couldn't have influenced this more? Duda, the city and DFA gave people the chance (too late and after the fact but they tried) to speak out. And after the initial meeting everyone said meh. Would it be better for them to build around and save the buildings? Duh. Anyone who thinks I don't feel that way is a moron. But I did my part and stayed active as long as I could. My support and backing virtually disappeared once the Instagram nation moved on to the next thing to complain about. 

Not saying all of you but there are plenty of people on here and in the Instagram world that are incredibly guilty of just sitting there complaining and doing nothing. That's my bottom line. I'm not saying we could have saved the buildings but I think if the people coming out of the woodwork now that sat quietly for the last few months there could have been a continuing dialogue. RDF is 100% in his motiv in his post which is: I see a lot of complaining and didn't see a lot of action after the initial push. 

 

On that note: I am announcing my semi-retirement on UP lolol

Edited August 25, 2016 by Jayvee

[ah59396]

1 minute ago, Jayvee said:

Thanks boss. And I understand there are plenty of people that DID show up to the meetings. But the momentum was 100% lost and it came down to people just complaining from their offices and couches rather than doing anything about it. That's my ENTIRE issue with this whole thing. 

 

Look at what the Elizabeth neighborhood was able to accomplish with an already great project. Do people really think we couldn't have influenced this more? Duda, the city and DFA gave people the chance (too late and after the fact but they tried) to speak out. And after the initial meeting everyone said meh. Would it be better for them to build around and save the buildings? Duh. Anyone who thinks I don't feel that way is a moron. But I did my part and stayed active as long as I could. My support and backing virtually disappeared once the Instagram nation moved on to the next thing to complain about. 

Not saying all of you but there are plenty of people on here and in the Instagram world that are incredibly guilty of just sitting there complaining and doing nothing. That's my bottom line. 

Jacks and Pstones are still gone at the end of the day.  Just like CM.  Both communities failed, in part, in saving what was actually unique about them. 

 

As many on here have said, the product that Duda has come out with is a very well planned and an appreciated design.  And I legitimately appreciate the fact that the developer listened to the citizens and went back and did something different.  I just hate where it's being built.  It's not like Charlotte is dense.  There are a million places this thing could be and I would be ecstatic with it.  That's all I'm saying.

[uptownliving]

It was painfully obvious at the public meetings that Duda Paine had sold out to their master. To sit there and hear them talk about what a great and unique place the Common Market space was, and then on the next slide was...now let me show you how we are going to destroy that great unique place and plop down a bland corporate behemoth.

The deal had already been done...and yes the lobbying that Jayvee did was nice, but at the end of the day it really was just changing the window dressings. We all know that this building will bring with it a drastic change in tone and image for the neighborhood. Personally I think that this building would have been much better suited for Morehead Street.

[CLTProductions]

13 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

Jacks and Pstones are still gone at the end of the day.  Just like CM.  Both communities failed, in part, in saving what was actually unique about them. 

 

As many on here have said, the product that Duda has come out with is a very well planned and an appreciated design.  And I legitimately appreciate the fact that the developer listened to the citizens and went back and did something different.  I just hate where it's being built.  It's not like Charlotte is dense.  There are a million places this thing could be and I would be ecstatic with it.  That's all I'm saying.

If I have to agree with anything. It's this. I just don't get why it's worth all the headache. Especially now that they own a site across the street. Build on the food truck lot and across the street and build a cat walk. Or someeeeething. Just don't see this possibly being worth the headache and $$$ to DFA

[ah59396]

2 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

If I have to agree with anything. It's this. I just don't get why it's worth all the headache. Especially now that they own a site across the street. Build on the food truck lot and across the street and build a cat walk. Or someeeeething. Just don't see this possibly being worth the headache and $$$ to DFA

FWIW Jayvee, I think it's probably the best looking midrise I've seen Charlotte pump out yet.

[nuprotocol]

23 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

 

Nailed it.  I loved the diversity of that place, my wife and I took her parents to CM to hang out in that "ashtray" when they came in from Texas and they couldn't stop raving about how cool they thought it was.  It was featured during the DNC as part of our "Third Spaces" concept.  As nonillogical says, it's a truly Charlotte concept.  I'd rather have ten more of them than what's going there.

 

 

Thank you so much for posting this. As an African American, I don't find many places in SouthEnd that has a really diverse group of people eating, drinking and enjoying the day like I did at CM. My wife (Chinese), and I love hanging out at breweries and soaking up everything SouthEnd has to offer. At one point we went to Owens Bagels every Saturday for breakfast then head to Craft for some day drinking. Typically, most of the places in SouthEnd are predominately White and my wife and I would be the only minorities there. 

This was not the case at CM as there was always a diverse group of people there. A bunch of friends and I went to CM on their last Saturday and had drinks almost the entire day there. We are really going to miss that place and I hope other locations in SouthEnd can draw more diverse crowds like CM.

[SgtCampsalot]

^^Same. Except I'm a white man. But as a native of the region I despair that there are not more CM-type places around town that unite people beyond what is "classy" for a certain demographic... if that makes sense. It gets people out of their comfort zone while appealing to what's really "common" about everyone, and that's the key. Every neighborhood and small town could use something with the heart that CM brings.

At least CM will be moving to another spot that will benefit from the culture it fosters. Oakhurst is outside the expensive trending neighborhoods, and I'm sure CM will cultivate its own true sense of place in that area. I'm excited.

Regarding people not showing up, it's true. I didn't show up.

Edited August 25, 2016 by SgtCampsalot

[nuprotocol]

17 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

^^Same. Except I'm a white man. But as a native of the region I despair that there are not more CM-type places around town that unite people beyond what is "classy" for a certain demographic... if that makes sense. It gets people out of their comfort zone while appealing to what's really "common" about everyone, and that's the key. Every neighborhood and small town could use something with the heart that CM brings.

At least CM will be moving to another spot that will benefit from the culture it fosters. Oakhurst is outside the expensive trending neighborhoods, and I'm sure CM will cultivate its own true sense of place in that area. I'm excited.

Regarding people not showing up, it's true. I didn't show up.

" beyond what is "classy" for a certain demographic... if that makes sense. "

Yes! This does make sense. My wife and I experience this quite often in SouthEnd. We would walk into say OMB, TripleC, Owens, Tyber and especially Sycamore and would be greeted with blank stares. Almost as if, why are you two here? It would be different if people looked and gave a warm smile, but this has not been the case. 

We are somewhat used to it now and still return to those places because while the establishment its self-has been warm and welcoming to us, sometimes the patrons are not. However, to other minorities, this type of reaction could be very off-putting and they may never return. I guess I kinda get it, me being Black I only represent 1 of 13% of the country, my wife being Asian only represents 1 of 4% of the US population. But we never received the blank or unwelcoming stares at CM. Hopefully, other locations in SouthEnd can cultivate the same type of inclusive culture as CM. 

[nonillogical]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I have to ask guys, as someone who is equally passionate about this project. How many of you showed up to the meetings where they introduced the first concept and then returned to the one where they presented the second? I feel like change could have happened had there been some numbers. I keep seeing people crying over the loss on here and on instagram, but I gotta ask, did anyone actually try to stop it?

Jayvee actually brought about the redesign and the initial public outcry with his Charlotte Agenda article (that i drew the siteplan for ;-) ) He helped bring about a lot of change. So don't give him too much crap. 

I definitely appreciate the work Jayvee did to bring awareness to the project, and that publicity influenced the design in a positive way. It's significantly better than the original site plan. However I'm still going to bristle at any "no big loss" or even worse, "good riddance" type post in reference to CM (and lets not forget about the numerous small creative studios and Black Sheep, also big losses for the area IMO). 

I admit I did not attend the meetings. However prior to the meetings, in this thread I was assured in no uncertain terms that the existing businesses were goners, and that the odds of any saving of the facades or reuse of the buildings was basically nil. That is what I cared about. The specifics of the design, while of interest, weren't about to inspire any passionate debate from me about when my primary hopes for the area had already been dashed.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Rendering of the planned Dimensional Fund Advisors building in South End,

[CLTProductions]

^^ how does the saying go? The late bird gets the worm?? No that's not it....

[CLT704]

I'll add my 2¢, it is a nice design but it's not for SouthEnd, I'd rather see it on a parking lot in Uptown. Also it's a real shame that more historic and unique buildings are being pulled down.