Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[tozmervo]

This could be a chance for CATS to finally build a responsible deck.

making the roof of the 485 deck in Pineville a school playfield wasn't responsible enough?

[ah59396]

I'm actually worried about my life once I can ride a train to the saucer. I've got enough plate(s) there. Please, no more.

[tozmervo]

OMB near Scaleybark, Triple C and Good Bottle near New Bern, World of Beer near Bland, Queen City Q (...and Rock Bottom) near 7th, NoDa and Birdsong near 25th, Vitner and Revo by 36th, Flying Saucer up at JW Clay.

Epic craft bar crawl. And I'm sure I left out some.

[ajfunder]

^ Pike's has great milkshakes for those with a sweet tooth and good food at East/West Blvd, Icehouse is great to watch sports, and of course Charlotte's finest fried chicken at Prices Chicken Coup are also near the station. Don't forget Mac's BBQ and then of course there are all the Uptown restraunts, this extension will be great and I can't wait to see dirt turning.

[kermit]

a security officer was checking tickets on the platform at the CTC midday today (Saturday). I have not seen any platform checking on non-event days before. He actually wrote one ticket in the two minutes I was there.

[tozmervo]

They grow up so fast... *sniff*

[dubone]

5 years ago was such a different time in this city. I am so relieved that it was a success, and that it has gained the respect of the general population of the city. That will help this city reach the next level, which it admirably proved during the DNC.

[kermit]

Much of the enthusiasm surrounding the BLE appears to be built around its impacts on NoDa. Unfortunately the Norfolk Southern rail yard is going to limit connectivity between the BLE and the N Tryon area. Stations are planned for Parkwood and 20th as well as 27th street but neither of the closest paths to the Tryon are particularly pedestrian friendly

• 16th street from Tryon towards Parkwood feels like the most dangerous pedestrian street in Charlotte at the moment
• Mathesion overpass dues have a sidewalk about it currently requires a half mile detour back to Jordan place before you can climb down and head towards the 27th street station

Since more than a mile separates 16th and Matheson a pedestrian bridge connecting Tryon with 21st (or 25th?) might have a huge impact on the development potential of N Tryon (such a bridge was initially mentioned by Southsider in a discussion about Amtrak / BLE connectivity). While this stretch of N Tryon certainly has some challenges there appears to be some significant  redevelopment potential there including some interesting housing stock, very good views, many underutilized warehouses and potentially repurposed amtrak / Norfolk Southern space (parking, crew base lot, Carolinian storage siding and possibly the NS offices if they are moved to the new intermodal yard)

 

I have not heard such a bridge discussed as part of the infrastructure improvements for the BLE (still unfunded due to the City's capital budget debates), but its potential for neighborhood transformation seems to be substantial. How much would such a bridge cost? How should it be paid for? How could it be built to maximize connectivity between N Tryon and the BLE? Is there a neighborhood plan for the area?

 

EDIT: I am assuming (hoping?) that modifications to Mathesion are planned to allow pedestrians quicker access down to the 25/27th street station without walking all the way to Jordan

 

EDIT 2: Based on the cost of an 80 ft ped bridge over Sugar Creek ($142,000) a 1,000 ft bridge over the yards would be approximately $1.8 million (probably more due to the greater height and larger volume of concrete work).

Edited November 29, 2012 by kermit

[dubone]

Well some of these are parts of the CIP that got delayed and possibly lost to time.

 

I was glad to see the construction schedule of the BLE pretty much means it will be done around the beginning of January, 2017, rather than in late 2017 as I was assuming.

 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/BLE/projectfacts/Documents/2012%200723%20-%20BL45%20Construction%20Summary.pdf

 

It still feels a long way away, but will certainly be a solidly underway in a year after the less exciting land deals and utility work next year.

[dubone]

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2013/01/01/openings-and-construction-starts-planned-for-2013/

 

It's so great to be on this list.  But it also says a lot about the investments being made all across the country.  (But I am slightly jealous of how some cities seem to be doing a better job of making good things happen than we are, like Denver's FasTrack program.)

[ajfunder]

I was just in Denver, the DIA airport link is a massive project and will be very cool when complete. The Golden LRT project is near completion and the Union Station project is amazing. The progress is very impressive and I wish CLT could do this.

To save costs parts of the RTD LRT system are single track, why doesn't Charlotte look into this to save future LRT construction costs and finish them sooner.

Alex

[dubone]

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2013/01/01/openings-and-construction-starts-planned-for-2013/

 

It's so great to be on this list.  But it also says a lot about the investments being made all across the country.  (But I am slightly jealous of how some cities seem to be doing a better job of making good things happen than we are, like Denver's FasTrack program.)

 

Yeah, I wasn't trying to take us off topic, but I did get some serious Denver envy after look at all of the projects they were able to fund for completion this decade. 

 

Bringing it back TO topic, it is the sort of thing that if we had bolder leadership (or perhaps more liberal constituency) we would have looked to do too.  As a city, we could certainly afford to do a similar $5-6B initiative if we chose to fund that sort of investment.   Perhaps we will be big enough in the 2020s to do such a thing and finish out a more complete transit system like they have done.  The Lynx has been wildly successful, and I'm sure will prove just as much so with the extension to UNCC.   We are lucky that we would never need to spend $1.2B for a line to the airport because we are so close, and yet it seems very far off from the point that we would spend even $200m for it because we only fund our transit capital growth with trifles. 

[ah59396]

I do think that, politically, a light rail line to the airport would be a lot easier to pass than virtually any other line currently proposed.

[NcSc74]

I do think that, politically, a light rail line to the airport would be a lot easier to pass than virtually any other line currently proposed.

Why? If you don't mind me asking. One would think for such a business conscious city that a LRT line to the airport would be a top 5 to do list.

Oops I thought you said "I don't think", but at any rate I agree it should be a no brainer.

Edited January 8, 2013 by NcSc74

[carolinagarnet]

I think development of more of the Uptown and South End surface lots will do more for the perception of light rail than any marketing the city could do. Parking lots are considerably more expensive than a lot of the surface lots on the fringes of Uptown, so the fewer options there are, the more people will need to switch to mass transit. The political momentum should naturally follow at that point.

[Urbanity]

I think it's unlikely that we'll see any movement on another light rail line until after the BLE opens in 2017.   My reason is that  the city council is a mess and can't even pass the CIP and the State leadership is now focused on fiscal conservatism and not funding new projects.   If any new light rail system gets any state funding in the next four years it will likely be the Triangle.

 

The only exception I could see to this is the Airport line IF a non-traditional (e.g. non-government) funding solution is put forth.  

[southslider]

After CLT emerges safely from the airline merger and costs remain the lowest nationally of any hub, maybe the Airport could self-finance its own line. In other words, CLT has some room to charge a fee that would build a line yet remain competitive in cost nationally.

[HopHead]

I think it's unlikely that we'll see any movement on another light rail line until after the BLE opens in 2017.   My reason is that  the city council is a mess and can't even pass the CIP and the State leadership is now focused on fiscal conservatism and not funding new projects.   If any new light rail system gets any state funding in the next four years it will likely be the Triangle.

 

The only exception I could see to this is the Airport line IF a non-traditional (e.g. non-government) funding solution is put forth.  

 

Well, if Jerry Orr is on board with a light rail extension to the airport, I could see him fronting some of the costs like he did with the current $1 Billion expansion that is going on now (via airport bonds). 

[15895]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to take us off topic, but I did get some serious Denver envy after look at all of the projects they were able to fund for completion this decade.

Bringing it back TO topic, it is the sort of thing that if we had bolder leadership (or perhaps more liberal constituency) we would have looked to do too. As a city, we could certainly afford to do a similar $5-6B initiative if we chose to fund that sort of investment. Perhaps we will be big enough in the 2020s to do such a thing and finish out a more complete transit system like they have done. The Lynx has been wildly successful, and I'm sure will prove just as much so with the extension to UNCC. We are lucky that we would never need to spend $1.2B for a line to the airport because we are so close, and yet it seems very far off from the point that we would spend even $200m for it because we only fund our transit capital growth with trifles.

Hopefully the redline gets funding and we'd have 3. What that map tells me is Charlotte punching above the belt for a city our size like in nearly every metric.

[southslider]

The Red Line's fate now depends on the new Governor's relationship with the House Speaker from Cornelius. Same could be said of toll lanes on 77.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

How is Phoenix/Tempe in a a politically rightwing state like Arizona able to fund its massive light rail projects and extensions?

 

I think development of more of the Uptown and South End surface lots will do more for the perception of light rail than any marketing the city could do. Parking lots are considerably more expensive than a lot of the surface lots on the fringes of Uptown, so the fewer options there are, the more people will need to switch to mass transit. The political momentum should naturally follow at that point.

[Guest]

I'm sure it helps that it is not only the 6th largest city in the country, but the largest state capital in the country. It needs it. 

How is Phoenix/Tempe in a a politically rightwing state like Arizona able to fund its massive light rail projects and extensions?

[Spartan]

Just some food for thought: one of the issues that City Council is very much aware of is that Charlotte/Mecklenburg has one of the highest tax rates in North Carolina. The political will to increase taxes to pay for things is relatively limited.

 

Since we already have a 1/2 cent sales tax for transit, it may be a tough sell to ask people to raise it again to pay for transit when we have a major issue of not having enough bond capacity to fund road construction and maintenance. If you had to add a half cent tax for transit or roads, which would it be?

[kermit]

^ Tax reform is the first order topic in Raleigh this year. The current mood suggests that the legislature is looking to to get rid of the state individual and corporate income tax and replace it with an increased sales tax. 

 

Increasing local sales taxes for anything is going to be very tricky until tax reform gets cleared up.

Edited January 14, 2013 by kermit

[Matthew.Brendan]

Here's a little story:

I often have some downtime in the early afternoon. I like SouthEnd in general, and often end up parking there then grabbing coffee and nosh at Nova's.

A leisurely stroll follows and today I decided to follow the LRT trail uptown.

I made it as far as Moorehead when the path just deadends. No pedestrian walkway or access across the moat of 277 that keeps uptown isolated on this side of town.

I thought about posting this in the 277 cap thread because I think this is a wonderful example of the problem of having such a gaping chasm in between uptown and SouthEnd. Especially with so many residences right here.

I think there are a ton of intangible or hard to quantify benefits that the Cap would bring, solely in the form of having a more free flowing access for pedestrians into and out of uptown/se. For all the talk of having a 'stroll'able downtown, this pathway along the LRT track goes a long way until it literally cuts you off right at the doorstep.

Are there any plans to address this crossing specifically to make pedestrian crossing possible?