South Light Rail Transit

[dubone]

Oh well...still I see quite a trend on this board...hmmm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why do you keep mentioning that? it isn't a trend, it is glaringly obvious that people on this board are interested in light rail...there are 31 pages and 16000 views on the details of rail transit in charlotte. It is also fairly obvious that most people interested in urbanity are interested in light rail, reduction in driving, and so on.

I'm wondering what your point is.

Please post some points on light rail that are worthy of discussion, as there is no rule you have to agree with everyone here... but it isn't much of a discussion to bring up things like ramen noodles and mocking that most of us agree with light rail.

[monsoon]

And, again, the Festiva isn't going to tow my boat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very true. We have a Tahoe to pull a boat. I could do it with the Merc, but it would not be very happy with it even though it would be in spec. In the plus side, I telecommute so I don't burn any gas at all getting to work.

In some cities now, telecommuting is saving far more fuel than all of the mass transit systems combined.

[reverbandwhiskey]

"In some cities now, telecommuting is saving far more fuel than all of the mass transit systems combined."

Agreed.

I am a bike commuter myself. 25 miles per day. I actually sold my car a few months ago. It was just sitting there, never being used.

[reverbandwhiskey]

"I drive because it saves me 30 minutes a day and from being really hot and sweaty. I'm a lawyer and my time is billed so that 30 minutes is really important to me. Also, I have to wear a suit a good number of times and carry work with me. But, when the weather is nice and a little on the cool side I walk. Starting in the Fall I'll be a half mile from work and will walk all the time."

Awesome! I am glad that you do walk it on nice days. ANY time you can eliminate a car trip it is a good thing. Thank you for doing your part to help our air quality.

[Miesian Corners]

I am going to start taking the bus to work next month and see how it goes. Bought my first monthly pass. I have a free parking space uptown, but am getting tired of filling up my little pick-up truck every week just to drive 6 miles round trip (and deal with South Blvd/Park Rd construction).

My only complaint about LRT is that it won't go near my house. I do look forward to hopping on the train from the office and running errands at lunch, or going to see an early movie down at Carolina Pavilion without getting stuck in rush-hour traffic. LRT will not be the panacea of Charlotte's traffic problems, but it's a move in the right direction. Just having another transit option will do worlds of good for the South Corridor.

[Raintree21]

What will be the cost comparison between monthly LRT tickets, bus tickets, and say, the average cost of gasoline? I guess you could probably say that gas will probably be $2.50/gallon by the time that LRT is finished.

[Sabaidee]

Experts said, we'll only see a large reduction of SUV usage and purchases if gas prices hit $5 a gallon.

[ME_]

The light rail is going to increase the crime in uptown and elsewhere exponentially. It will ship the pickpockets and theives around town just like the systems in many other cities. Think of how infamous subways are. Give the light-rail system here in Charlotte a few years and it will be a pit of crime. It sounds great in theory, but the fact is that the people that should ride a light rail (the people that work and spend money in the areas that the rail will visit) will not ride the rail. The crime will scare them away and they will drive to the city like they already do. The only difference is that now they will have to pay for parking and for the light rail system (via taxes) for the criminals and the homeless to ride.

[SmellyCat]

The light rail is going to increase the crime in uptown and elsewhere exponentially.  It will ship the pickpockets and theives around town just like the systems in many other cities.  Think of how infamous subways are.  Give the light-rail system here in Charlotte a few years and it will be a pit of crime.  It sounds great in theory, but the fact is that the people that should ride a light rail (the people that work and spend money in the areas that the rail will visit) will not ride the rail.  The crime will scare them away and they will drive to the city like they already do.  The only difference is that now they will have to pay for parking and for the light rail system (via taxes) for the criminals and the homeless to ride.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This seems like a bit of a bizarre argument. Crime in subways? Sure, we here about that a lot because it can be hard to police subways, especially those that have extensive networks and run all night like NYC. But I've never heard about bad crime problems on light rail. I mean, it's the only line Charlotte's going to have, and it's run schedule will be limited.

[ME_]

All I ask is that you remember that I told you so. It does sound good in theory, but watch the person-to-person crime rates soar in uptown. It ships in those people that otherwise would keep their crime within walking distance from their home (i.e. far away from uptown). I'm just afraid of the effect it will definitely have on our city.

[dubone]

i don't agree with the crime-light rail link. the vagrants already LIVE uptown and within a few miles of downtown, and there are many bus routes already running through all the high crime areas to downtown.

[ME_]

Uptown is just an example, the light rail will go many other places that will be affected by the influx of these people too. (SouthPark, DillWorth, Ballantyne-I-485 area eventually, etc.). Just looking at the long-term.

[dubone]

but why would light rail bring more crime than the busses already going through there?

I'm sure there will be some shifts in crime, as there will actually be PEOPLE and residences and stores versus the vacant industrial structures there now. but even that may balance out, as the tax base and population for the neighborhoods increase, there will be a shift in police coverage.

another aspect that might actually lead to less crime in the light rail corridor is that as the area is rebuilt with new growth, the blight will be removed. Many studies show that as neighborhoods improve their visual appearance that crime and perception of crime decrease dramatically. criminals tend to move to where they will less conspicuous, and residents are also more likely to make calls and act in a way that discourages crime.

Crime is a little tricky, as it is a human action that isn't necessarily predictable... but assuming that transit DOES make it easier for common criminals to get around, then how would it increase for light rail versus the buses that are already there?

[monsoon]

Arguments such as this are why Marta does not go into Cobb and Marietta and the Metro in DC does not have a stop in Georgetown.

[SmellyCat]

Arguments such as this are why Marta does not go into Cobb and Marietta and the Metro in DC does not have a stop in Georgetown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yet an much increased level of crime has still managed to find its way into Georgetown in recent years, even without a metro stop. I guess criminals know how to take buses

[ME_]

Crime is a little tricky, as it is a human action that isn't necessarily predictable... but assuming that transit DOES make it easier for common criminals to get around, then how would it increase for light rail versus the buses that are already there?

With busses there are drivers that are directly in front of the passengers in the same cabin and able to view and report any unlawful acts immediately.

With the light-rail cars there is (and correct me if I am wrong here) no person of authority in the cabin. There may be a camera, but cameras aren't effective anymore because a criminal doesn't care if his picture is taken.

just one difference.

Also, light rail stations are going to be hard to police, maybe not as difficult as subways, but much more difficult than the normal bus stop that is on the side of the road.

[monsoon]

The Charlotte LRT will be like DART in Dallas. Transit cops will troll the cars to make sure that people have purchases the fares to be on the train. This is a good bit different than heavy rail where there barriers preventing entry without purchasing a ticket.

The transit cops will be a big deterrrent to the potential crime that migh occur on the train.

[ME_]

I haven't heard any provision for funds for transit cops, is there one? Unfortunately the gov't doesn't think like you.

[Sabaidee]

Most transit authorities have transit police, I'm not sure how CATS and CMPD will come to play, but I do know they plan to do random checks on the trains, especially it's the post 9/11 world. Transit systems are viewed as targets by Homeland Security officals. CATS will operate on an honor system for tickets/fares and those random searches will check if the passenger have paid their fares or not.

[monsoon]

I haven't heard any provision for funds for transit cops, is there one?  Unfortunately the gov't doesn't think like you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes this is the part of the on going cost of running the trains. Else no one would purchase a fare to ride the thing. When I have ridden on other LRT systems I usually have had my ticket stub checked at least 50% of the time.

[atlrvr]

But your arguement is that it moves criminals to these areas, not that the crime is occuring on the transit line itself......in that respect (assuming a criminal can contain his criminal behavior long enough to make it to his desired destination) how does light rail generate more crime than buses.

Why is it that transit critics come up with the most bizarre arguments to oppose it? Should we not allow cars, and thereby dramatically reduce the number of drive-by shootings?

[SouthJersey7]

The Charlotte LRT will be like DART in Dallas.  Transit cops will troll the cars to make sure that people have purchases the fares to be on the train.  This is a good bit different than heavy rail where there barriers preventing entry without purchasing a ticket. 

The transit cops will be a big deterrrent to the potential crime that migh occur on the train.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. NJTransit's RiverLINE and Hudson-Bergen Light Rail have the same system, and both are generally known as safer than NYC's subways.

[Miesian Corners]

Yet an much increased level of crime has still managed to find its way into Georgetown in recent years, even without a metro stop.  I guess criminals know how to take buses

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's an urban legend that Georgetown fought Metro, although there were residents who did vocally oppose it. The real reason it didn't get a subway stop is because it didn't have the density of office space that fit into Metro's main mission of getting people to and from work. According to transit historian Zach Schrag, there would have been major engineering difficulties in running the line from Foggy Bottom to Georgetown and then across the Potomac to Rosslyn. If a Georgetown station had been built, it would have been the deepest in the U.S.

Here we are 40 years later and Georgetown residents are now screaming for a Metro stop. The gentrification of Wisconsin Avenue has turned it into a glorified shopping mall and has brought all the suburban ills that a mall embodies: traffic and crime.

[UptownGrrl]

With busses there are drivers that are directly in front of the passengers in the same cabin and able to view and report any unlawful acts immediately. 

With the light-rail cars there is (and correct me if I am wrong here) no person of authority in the cabin.  There may be a camera, but cameras aren't effective anymore because a criminal doesn't care if his picture is taken. 

just one difference. 

Also, light rail stations are going to be hard to police, maybe not as difficult as subways, but much more difficult than the normal bus stop that is on the side of the road.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought each "train" would only be 2-3 cars depending on the time of day (not like a dozen or more cars for bigger city subways). Seems like less opportunity to hide from the eyes of security.

[Sabaidee]

it's only 2 cars, the light rail vehicles are only 94 ft long and LRT stations are only 200 ft long.