South Light Rail Transit

[dubone]

long answer: the freight rail will be abandonned north of around tyvola. The freight line that crosses 77 will connect to that right of way around there and will continue south. it will be light rail and trolley only north of that point.

[Neo]

One other note: the wheels will be made of a composite plastic which is less noisier than steel wheels.

That's a little disappointing to hear IMO. I think that gritty sound of the steel wheels hitting the track is a sound you expect to hear in a bustling big city. Like the EL in Chicago, it's noisy, but I love the sound!

[Raintree21]

long answer: the freight rail will be abandonned north of around tyvola.  The freight line that crosses 77 will connect to that right of way around there and will continue south.  it will be light rail and trolley only north of that point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder how that will affect local industry? As I said before, there are several manufacturing plants on the South Blvd. corridor that use those tracks regularly.

[dubone]

i am not certain of this, but i was under the impression that the track north of tyvola has been abandonned for a while, independent of any plans for light rail or trolley service. i'm sure any industry on that stretch of track has survived okay with freight truck rather than trains.

[Mobuchu]

Yeah, the track has already been ripped up in some sections like near scaleybark and behind 3030 South Blvd.

[Raintree21]

Specifically, I was thinking about the large plant in between Woodlawn and Tyvola with the silos and lovely smell. I think they convert animal fat to makeup or something like that. I know I've seen trains stopped behind it in the past year or so loading or unloading. And I think there are a couple of other places around that area.

I guess I'm just playing the devil's advocate and don't want any kind of industry to suffer.

[spectacle21]

Does anyone know the top attainable speeds of these trains. Once, I read in a

forum where someone was complaining about how slow the light rail trains are in Portland. Is heavy rail faster than light rail or vice versa? I know that MARTA goes pretty fast.

[uptownliving]

The Siemens trains that Charlotte is getting are capable of 65MPH, but CATs has put in a speed limit of 55mph for the track South of Scaleybark....North of Scaleybark I think the speed limit is going to be 35 MPH...or maybe even a little lower.

Total travel time from 485 to 7th St will be 28 minutes.

[dubone]

At some points of the day, 28 minutes will be slower than driving if using 77 and 485, but is very competitive with driving down south boulevard at almost any part of the day.

As 77 and 485 won't be expanded for decades, it won't be much longer, though, that 28 minutes will beat them all handily.

[ElricSeven]

At some points of the day, 28 minutes will be slower than driving if using 77 and 485, but is very competitive with driving down south boulevard at almost any part of the day. 

As 77 and 485 won't be expanded for decades, it won't be much longer, though, that 28 minutes will beat them all handily.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The cost of gasoline and parking might be a big factor too, depending on what you drive and where you park.

[rockhilljames]

Specifically, I was thinking about the large plant in between Woodlawn and Tyvola with the silos and lovely smell. I think they convert animal fat to makeup or something like that. I know I've seen trains stopped behind it in the past year or so loading or unloading.  And I think there are a couple of other places around that area.

I guess I'm just playing the devil's advocate and don't want any kind of industry to suffer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you continue on Old Pineville road past the Cargill refinery (I believe they refine vegtable oil there) you'll come to a point where the tracks split. You can clearly see where the light rail line diverges from the current freight line. With that being the case, light rail shouldn't interfere with that freight line at all.

I'm curious as to how the hell the trolley and light rail are supposed to share a track. I don't see that working very well.

[monsoon]

You are correct. That is a vegetable oil refinery.

[orulz]

I'm curious as to how the hell the trolley and light rail are supposed to share a track. I don't see that working very well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It works because they use exactly the same electrical system, the same track guage, and have fairly similar performance (accelleration / braking). Both can stop and start so quickly that line signaling is pretty much unneccesary anyway. It is my understanding that the LRT won't move more than 35mph or so over the segment that the trolley will run, so all in all it's essentially a non-issue. There are other places in the world where it works, too: In Hiroshima, Japan, for example, they have a pretty massive streetcar / light rail network in which 40 year old trolleys and brand-new five section articulated LRVs mix on the same tracks with extremely short headways. It just works.

[dubone]

and timing trains is down to a science after a century and a half of practice....

[orulz]

and timing trains is down to a science after a century and a half of practice....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless you're Amtrak, operating in mixed traffic on tracks owned by antagonistic freight railroads...

[monsoon]

I read an editorial this morning that reminded my that CLT's Mayor refers to South Blvd. as the "Corridor of Crap" and I was wondering if his plan for the South LRT will correct this particular deficiency by removing the "Crap". What do you think?

[dubone]

The promise of light rail is already improving some of the crap between south end and scaleybark.

You can argue that some of the south blvd land in south end is growing because of the neighborhood itself, rather than transit, but you could equally argue that southend has grown so much in the last decade because of the transit corridor.

Retail projects in southend (like Lowes and OBSW) and by woodlawn and tyvola (like Ross and Home Depot) are helping to redeem many parts of south boulvard. Retail growth is happening because of the promise of growth along that corridor, and that promise is given by transit and related rezoning.

Around the New Bern station, old industrial sites are already starting to convert to higher density urban residential. 3030 South is finished with phase I, and now HHHunt will convert an eyesore truck distro center by sedgefield. Sedgefield itself is seeing conversion of low density, lower-income, poorly maintained apartment buildings to higher density, townhouse projects.

This change has already begun, and light rail construction started just recently.

[dubone]

When the different kinds of trains share tracks, the timing will be set to allow for safety and following distance. even when freight and transit trains are on the same corridor, they will not share tracks, and will have a safety buffer between them.

Uptown has two rail corridors. the corridor in 1st and 2nd wards between college and brevard will carry the South light rail (which will also keep going north along the Northeast corridor) and the historic trolley on the same set of tracks. the corridor in 3rd and 4th wards between graham and cedar will carry freight, amtrak on one or multiple sets of tracks and the commuter rail from the north corridor will be on separate tracks.

The freight line that woud run along the south corridor is the line that connects with the tracks that run along wilkinson (they connect near morris field dr) and the run parallel to billy graham parkway and then cut toward the south as they cross 77 and meet the south light rail corridor just south of tyvola. South light rail will follow the same corridor for 6 more miles, but be separated by a buffer. light rail will also use bridges to cross all the major crossings, while freight tracks will remain as they are.

[spectacle21]

The promise of light rail is already improving some of the crap between south end and scaleybark.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Its looking better every day and I see no reason why the progress would stop. The South LRT is going to be used, the doubts have left my mind. Its turning out great.

[monsoon]

I was thinking more of the empty boxes that have appeared further south beyond Scaleybark. (Which these days seems to be the dividing line between good and bad SB)

Also there would seem to be a lot of unexploited potential in the blocks on South Blvd around the Arlington (either side) in the "taint" area. Taint South End, Taint Uptown.

[dubone]

i always thought the dividing line between "good" sb and "bad" sb was Magnolia.

SB has so much crap all along it, even in south end.

- south end south of magnolia is terrible with vacant industrial and retail.

- the area around sedgefield, has the large distro center and a bunch of vacant and current industrial and lowest-scale retail.

- Scaleybark area has so many vacant industrial buildings, horrible looking retail buildings, tattoo parlors and strip clubs, i can't imagine counting it as a good part of south blvd. as i mentioned before, i have high hopes that this area will be converted soon after light rail opens.

The area south of scaleybark does get even worse. The shopping centers around woodlawn and tyvola are seeing signs of redemption, though, but other than that, it is industry, vacant and current industrial, lowest-scale retail, and a complete mess.

Will light rail alone redeem the south blvd past scaleybark, or even the worse part past tyvola... no. As i said before, scaleybark and north will be redeemed by transit and tod. woodlawn and tyvola will be helped by light rail, but only indirectly as retail decides to concentrate there to support much of the growth further north. I think an act of God is needed for the area between tyvola and westinghouse, although transit/rezoning/infra improvements will help a bit.

[atlrvr]

edit

Here is a news story in today's Business Journal.

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...tml?jst=b_ln_hl

[dubone]

is that the final payment from the state? they've now paid $106m, which is their 25%, right?

On the subject of rail funding... does anyone know if local sales tax proceeds of improved with the economy this year? Might there be a little more money for, say, streetcar to the airport, or lightrail to matthews, or even speeding up some of the project timelines?

[Neo]

This has a date for a 2006 start date, I thought it was pushed back to 2007?