South Light Rail Transit

[atlrvr]

The planning department should require than in MX-2, MX-3, and other large scale zoning districts that allow residential (and especially high-density residential) that a certain percentage of development be devoted to commercial uses.

One of the worst examples in recent history in my opinion is that the Celenese site on Archdale was approved conditionally with with attachment that NO commercial space be present on the site........this is turn will dump thousands of more cars onto Archdale Rd. to have access to basic retail ammenities.

In a more extreme case, I'd also like to see that any site over 2 acres be forced to have access onto at least 2 separate streets.....even if it requires purchasing an exisitng home to clear for the the new road ROW..........this would not be an eminent domain issues, and if the developer couldn't ensure two access points, then the site would remain undeveloped until the issue is resolved.

[atlrvr]

i have a hunch when someone is car-jacked @ southpark - the perpetrator doesn't live in foxcroft.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another crime that could be avoided by banning cars.

[TowerRooster]

London, New York, Chicago, Paris?

I love when people still try to make Charlotte "world class" 

We aren't even close to Atlanta!  Their roads are almost perfect for the volume and flow they have, while ours continue to get worse. 

Well, enough posting on this forum...35 pages and still no one agress with anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... more like about 10 posts and still you can't agree with yourself.

First you say that cities should build mass transit before it's actually needed, and then you strongly imply that they need to be world class cities to have it.

First you say we don't need light rail (the only other alternative is building more roads) and then complain about the government needing to take people's land from them to set up light rail. Roads require much more land "stealing" on the part of governments than light rail, they take up a LOT more space... in Charlotte, in fact, as has already been stated, very little land at all will need to be aquired for our proposed light rail system.

[mediamongrel]

No, I am not for light rail. Whoever said the road system is grossly underfunded is right on the money. I can list two things we put money into (NBA, NASCAR) while the road and traffic problem always remains second or third on the priority list. But if McCrory continues to sit back and watch this stuff go on and do nothing, I guess these problems will escalate. Too bad, I liked McCrory in the beginning. We are too worried about what new things the Bobcats are going to get, or how high our bid is for the Nascar hall of fame. We don't concentrate on the important things. Until we get people into the offices of council/representatives/governor/mayor who actually care, then problems will continue. Hope this answers the question about if I was for light rail.

[Sabaidee]

The money for the NBA and NASCAR are from different seperate funding source, get your facts right. Our main problems with our roads are at the state level. Charlotte has done its best at fixing road it is responsible for and even fix roads that the state are suppose to maintain. The majority of the funding for the NASCAR Hall of Fame and the arena are from hotel motel taxes. The transportion projects are mainly funded by the gas tax.

[mediamongrel]

The money for the NBA and NASCAR are from different seperate funding source, get your facts right. Our main problems with our roads are at the state level. Charlotte has done its best at fixing road it is responsible for and even fix roads that the state are suppose to maintain. The majority of the funding for the NASCAR Hall of Fame and the arena are from hotel motel taxes. The transportion projects are mainly funded by the gas tax.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The gas tax is a whole seperate thread.

And if you believe that the hotel/motel tax will be the only people paying for the NASCAR and NBA ventures then you must be die-hard fans of both of those enterprises. The people ALWAYS end up indirectly paying for this crap in the end.

[cinco]

No, I am not for light rail.  Whoever said the road system is grossly underfunded is right on the money.  I can list two things we put money into (NBA, NASCAR) while the road and traffic problem always remains second or third on the priority list.  But if McCrory continues to sit back and watch this stuff go on and do nothing, I guess these problems will escalate.  Too bad, I liked McCrory in the beginning.  We are too worried about what new things the Bobcats are going to get, or how high our bid is for the Nascar hall of fame.  We don't concentrate on the important things.  Until we get people into the offices of council/representatives/governor/mayor who actually care, then problems will continue.  Hope this answers the question about if I was for light rail.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok, ok. media, i hope that misfortune never comes your way. but, lets say it did and you lost your job (loot) - you couldn't even afford a car. now, lets say you find another job after sometime of struggling...and it just happens to be on a LTR corridor. 'betcha for it then.

i know that could never happen.

[dubone]

even don lochman would concede that the arena and the hof are paid for almost entirely by sequestered funds. his opposition to the arena was that it would eat up almost the entirety of that sequestered fund, leading to a situation where new requests would either need new revenue sources or be turned away. this has happened, as is seen in the arts package...

it made for quite a debate and a fair debate BUT that money would never have been able to go to roads or police or anything else...

light rail is the same idea... voters approved a sequestered fund for transit. It has nothing to do with the local funds that deal with roads. at a federal level, transit funds are their own political entity and do not have a zero-sum game with road funding any more than they do with welfare funding or anything else. At the state level, there might be a closer tie, as the money is much tighter, but the state contribution is something like $100m over multiple fiscal years.

Let's say all these visible projects were halted, and pretend for a second that it could be shifted to freeway expansion... how would charlotte be better off with a 10 lane 77? the vast majority of all that volume of cars are still headed to the same 10-20 blocks downtown. So instead of waiting in a 3 lane queue to get downtown, they'd be waiting in a 10 lane queue. The bottleneck shifts, but it removes the metering of traffic flowing into the downtown grid, so the distribution roadway network will be less efficient. What is the cost of storing all those cars downtown anyway?

[Sabaidee]

The gas tax is a whole seperate thread.

And if you believe that the hotel/motel tax will be the only people paying for the NASCAR and NBA ventures then you must be die-hard fans of both of those enterprises.  The people ALWAYS end up indirectly paying for this crap in the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I personally hate NASCAR, I just like the benefits that Charlotte recieve from having a NASCAR base. Though NASCAR is trying to attract more of my ethicity to the sport, I still won't get over its sterotypes. The Bobcats will be in charge of running the new arena, that include maintainence. Of course people will pay indirectly for the arena and the Hall of Fame through tickets. If you don't want to support the arena or the hall of fame, don't go purchase tickets to attend any of those events at those locations.

[mediamongrel]

Where did anyone say anything about losing my job and taking light rail to work. If I worked in Uptown and lost my job, why would I still go to Uptown to work?

[dubone]

i think we can all agree that the primary users of light rail will be employed people who also likely have a car.

the carless unemployed transit user would more likely be a bus user, as it will provide more point to point service to get to a place like a grocery store and home.

[Miesian Corners]

Where did anyone say anything about losing my job and taking light rail to work.  If I worked in Uptown and lost my job, why would I still go to Uptown to work?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The unemployment office is uptown.

[cinco]

i think we can all agree that the primary users of light rail will be employed people who also likely have a car. 

the carless unemployed transit user would more likely be a bus user, as it will provide more point to point service to get to a place like a grocery store and home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i don't know about that, dubone. i hope your right, cause that would mean there are alot green minded peeps in charlotte. i do think that would be the motivation for these riders, more so than just saving money. are the parking lots @ transit nodes going to cost money? a good many of these corridors seem to go through areas where people might not have cars...also, won't a bus ticket transfer onto LTR?

[mediamongrel]

I think also that if someone still had to use their car to drive to these parking lots where light rail leaves from, there would probably be some crime increase in the areas where cars sit all day. And like the previous poster said, where is the money to build parking lots going to come from?

[Miesian Corners]

It's included in the cost of the line. As far as crime goes, how would they be any different from any parking garage?

This is getting tiresome. Besides, I thought you were "done with this thread", MM.

OFF TOPIC

Happy 4th Everybody! Be safe, play nice (or play safe and be nice, either way works) and don't blow yourselves up with fireworks from SC.

[mediamongrel]

Not tiresome for me, I love defending my position on light rail...although it does seem I am outnumbered on this board...oh well.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

I don't think this is the appropriate thread to express your opinion on light rail.

EDIT:

I did not see that you were done.

Happy 4th Everybody! Be safe, play nice (or play safe and be nice, either way works) and don't blow yourselves up with fireworks from SC.

[dubone]

i don't know about that, dubone.  i hope your right, cause that would mean there are alot green minded peeps in charlotte.  i do think that would be the motivation for these riders, more so than just saving money.  are the parking lots @ transit nodes going to cost money? a good many of these corridors seem to go through areas where people might not have cars...also, won't a bus ticket transfer onto LTR?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i definitely think there will be some... i just think that bus routes are already in place for most of those users. the rapid transit line is designed to be more of a commuter alternative to the freeway, and the southern stops are park and rides for that purpose. The northern stops are for TOD to attract new growth in a denser pattern, likely at prices that will be more middle class.

anyway, i'm sure there will some riders who will switch from a current bus route to the light rail, but i'm just saying the primary users (especially the "new riders" that the feds use to make funding decisions) will be commuters.

[TowerRooster]

i don't know about that, dubone.  i hope your right, cause that would mean there are alot green minded peeps in charlotte.  i do think that would be the motivation for these riders, more so than just saving money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In addition to the "green" benefits, which are great, there are the benefits of reduced stress, and the opportunity to read something to and from work, or talk to/meet other commuters. Those benefits in themselves would be enough to convince me to live near a LRT station.

[ME_]

Actually, MM, I am opposed to this mass transit system too.

[dubone]

i was driving down Old Pineville today taking a look at the light rail construction. At one point i caught a glimpse of how awesome the skyline looks. It occurred to me that it is going to be an even more awesome view of downtown from on the trains as they pass over the new bridges, as they will be above the treeline.

(i still think they should have saved the money and used traffic signal timing and rr-crossing arms.... but since they are being built afterall...the view will create an awesome backdrop for the morning commute)

[RaleighHeelsfan]

I am not trying to be a racist in this post. But here is what will happen. This will turn into Atlanta's rail line. The trains will be crowded with 99.9 percent african americans. White people will stop riding it. I am not afraid to admit that when I last rode Atlanta's subway, I felt very uncomfortable and will never set foot on it again. I would not have a problem riding a train thats 50/50 race wise. I do not hate black people, I'm just stating what might happen.

Not trying to start any arguments.

[Norm2]

A lot o black people in a lot of cities use public transit. The majority of the peope that use charlotte's busses are black also. I do also think, that you think a lot like other white people, they dont want to sit on a bus or train full of black people either. I understand you are not trying to be racist, but it does most certainly come across as racist. Why would riding a train with mostly black people make you uncomfortable?Why?

[RaleighHeelsfan]

A lot o black people in a lot of cities use public transit. The majority of the peope that use charlotte's busses are black also. I do also think, that you think a lot like other white people, they dont want to sit on a bus or train full of black people either. I understand you are not trying to be racist, but it does most certainly come across as racist. Why would riding a train with mostly black people make you uncomfortable?Why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the subway in Atlanta was all black. Not mostly.

I felt uncomfortable for the same reasons most people would. I knew we were the only white people on the train. I felt that all the other people on the train noticed we were the only white people on the train. lol, I just felt like people were starring at us. I was not comfortable at all. On top of that, I was in a strange town.

Again, I would have no problem riding a train thats 50/50 in race. But the average white person probably does not think that way. They would stick with there cars.

I guess like most people I am slightly racist. But I do not hate black people. I say bad things about black people sometimes but its not directed to all of them. At the same time, I say bad things about white people sometimes, poor and rich. But its not directed to everyone in that catagory.

I just hope the transit lines in Charlotte and Raleigh can be successful like the ones in NYC and Philly one day. That is, where all races ride it. not limited to just one.

[Sabaidee]

It's just Southern sterotypes, the wealthy drive cars. We do have some city politician who commute to Uptown other than by automobile. The majority of white people who do use transit are people from the outlying suburbs in Concord, Hunterville, Mooreville, and Monroe. Not to mention the majority of CATS Vanpool users are mostly white, as far away as Lexington and High Point. The average White people in the South finds transit as the utmost last resort as a ways of transportation. But really, is Atlanta's MARTA dangerous as NYC's MTA? MARTA is far cleaner and safer than NYC's MTA. There's no smell of urine and litter. Despite the reputation of NYC's MTA, the Mayor of NYC, who is a billionaire uses the subway daily to his office. There's no polictical reasons for him to use the subway, the MTA isn't a city agency.