South Light Rail Transit

[JunktionFET]

If people can afford to buy gas-guzzling SUVs, why make fun of them?  Why is everyone against SUVs now?  Boy, this is a typically slanted message forum!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Slanted in which direction? Common sense? What a crime!

Some people have always "been against" SUVs for the same reason--they are a waste--and it will affect everyone in a negative way. It is short sighted to think that just because money can buy it, then it's okay. Why should you be able to commit any crime and buy your way out of it?

Wasting finite resources is foolish--it is something that stupid people do. Lord knows, this planet is full of stupid people... so I guess that explains some things.

[JunktionFET]

I should clarify and say that large SUVs are generally a waste unless they are used on a regular basis for their unique abilities--hauling lots of crap, towing heavy loads, etc. Small SUVs like Freelanders, Escapes, CRVs, etc are alright because they offer enough utility for most people.

Soccer moms driving Suburbans and Navigators to the grocery store whilst hauling one baby seat (or *gasp* two) are burning up our world--doing a great disservice to everyone else. Sure, it's her right to do so, but it is still wrong. I can't imagine how such a person could justify using a vehicle like that when their daily life has no need for it. Pragmatism is not dead--it is just suppressed, apparently.

Most of those large SUVs aren't even capable offroad. The front ends are so heavy and the weight is so poorly distributed that even in 4WD mode, they literally sink in mud or any loose surface. I've seen it happen a lot. In mud I'm better off in a VW Jetta than I am in a Ford Expedition. Recent experience proves that too!

[Sabaidee]

Charlotte need to bring its air quality to standard, mass transit are some of the ways city and county leaders wanted to bring it to standard. If everyone keep continuing to purchase SUVs, it help contribute to the pollution as most cars do as they sit in traffic idling. Surbuban moms, the name says it, where do they are driving from? The suburbs. What are the main ways to get to Charlotte from the suburbs? The freeways and major arteries. Those major arteries are congested, thus those cars sit in traffic. Light Rail are pollution free.

[SmellyCat]

I think there should be an SUV tax or basically a tax on any vehicle that gets poor gas mileage or has above-average emissions. I also think hybrid vehicles should be allowed to used HOV lanes. It's a start.

[dubone]

personally, i'm not against SUVs, just again SUV-BOOOs (Sport Utility Vehicle-But Only One Occupant). While i would never ever ever support regulations to stop people from doing it, i still think it is worth saying/writing that i think it is irresponsible or silly or even bad for someone to purchase a 5-6000 lbs vehicle in order to carry a 200lb person to work and back.

anyway, i'm sure this is a "typically slanted message forum" because it is very common for people who have philosophical interest and support for an urban planet to be supportive and interested in rapid transit. I'm sure this forum is also slanted in support of historic preservation and skyscrapers and some other things.

but if you don't agree with light rail, but are still interested in the rest, that is certainly fine, i just wouldn't expect to be in the majority on that issue in this audience.

[monsoon]

.... Light Rail are pollution free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Often in these arguments this is said, but one forgets there is a very large almost always fossil fuel plant hiding behind the hills producing electricity to make these things run. Granted it may create less polution than the equivalent number of cars to move the same mass of people, but LRT is not pollution free.

The Catawba river on the western edge of the city, is lined by 3 huge coal fired powerhouses that do not meet acceptable levels of pollution control.

[dubone]

very true about the pollution, although there is definitely a public health benefit to have the pollution being at a remote location rather than right next to people. Studies have shown that people who commute in congested roadways are higher risk for heart and other disease, and have found that stress isn't the primary cause, but rather the pollutents that they are exposed to being just a few yards away from a dozen tailpipes.

For me, the pollution argument is much lower on the radar, and is more the function of improved efficiency versus the automobile on a congested corridor.

[Sabaidee]

The light rail itself does not produce any pollution, the electricity that the light rail uses is used by everyone, so does that makes everyone polluters too for using electricity? If you're a Duke Power customer, which offered electricity from enviromental friendly source for an extra fee, but you're still not using electricity from those sources directly as Duke stored those energy with energy produced by coal burning powerplants.

[cinco]

I think there should be an SUV tax or basically a tax on any vehicle that gets poor gas mileage or has above-average emissions.  I also think hybrid vehicles should be allowed to used HOV lanes.  It's a start.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree. smelly cat.

think of how many surface lots will dissappear when light rail happens, and people make the decsision to use it.

[Miesian Corners]

If people can afford to buy gas-guzzling SUVs, why make fun of them?  Why is everyone against SUVs now?  Boy, this is a typically slanted message forum!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As many others have stated more elloquently than I, an SUV's fuel consumption affects all of us, not just the owner. They help increase our dependence on foreign oil. When will people learn that there is virtue in conservation? It helps the planet, our health, and our bank accounts.

On a personal note, I hate them for a reason beyond the obvious: they take up more than one parking space. While it may be the Escalade or H2 owner's right to own and drive whatever they please, it is not their right to control the parking lot at the Harris Teeter.

[JunktionFET]

I'm glad NC doesn't have any stupid-wide freeways--continual congestion is one way to ensure that people will consider another means of transportation besides sitting in their cars burning expensive fuel.

If TTA Regional Rail ever becomes a reality, you better believe I'll use it. I'll make an effort to move near a station and use it as my means of getting to work and back everyday. I may use it for leisure too--taking a trip downtown for some brews. Hell, I might actually start going to the State Fair again, as one of the stops is supposed to be right across the street.

I hate having to rely on a car for daily necessities. Recreational driving is alright as long as traffic is light, but otherwise it is a stress-fest for me.

[cinco]

as to the "slanted" comment. to label a discussion on civic responsibility and urban growth with such simple mindedness - gets very old. god forbid someone brings up social responsibilty without being made to feel.....well, "slanted". i have felt slanted many times and it can be very uncomfortable.

[dubone]

Maybe i'll take a more mcdonoughian slant for a second:

It isn't much fun to be conservational or socially responsible or restrictive or diminuitive or ascetic. I'll go so far as to say maybe it is a little excessive to spend half a bil on a little choo choo. GREAT. I want charlotte to have an expensive choo choo to ride. It is the american way and if someone else will pay for 3/4 of it, then BONUS.

I don't really want charlotte or anywhere in america to live in a false sense of scarcity. I don't want people to stack up in a highrise because there isn't enough farmland or there isn't enough transport capacity or there isn't enough oil. I don't want people to stack up in a train because of the same. Instead, i want the excess of it.... There is plenty of oil and gas for SUVs and hybrids alike, just as there is plenty of money and concrete to build interstate freeways through mountains and wetlands, and just as there is plenty of money and steel to build a train through charlotte's decayed industrial slums.

It is fun as heck to live in a fancy building with a pool on top and a view of dozens of billion dollar scrapers from 100 feet up. It is really fun to be able to drink till you're nearly passed out and be able to stumble home a few blocks away. It is really fun to be able to take an elevator to the grocery store...in your pajamas.

Anyway... i do believe in hybrids and fuel cells and wind power and saving farmland and reducing foreign energy and all that, because i'm a bit of geek.... BUT nothing in the real world actually happens because of a geeky cause... it happens because it is cool, fun, and much more enjoyable for people living their lives. Most people like their big SUVs with their TVs and nav systems and 5.1 surround sound and chrome spinners...that's cool. But lots of people would rather get free parking and be chauffeured on a private lane to their workplace in a half billion dollar steel-wheeled limo.... count me in.

[Miesian Corners]

It also happens because of economics and necessity. The gas lines of the mid-1970s tell that tale, as does the near-death of the American automobile industry during the same decade (history repeating itself right now). Our problem is that we have such a short memory.

Choice is fine for those who have the bank accounts to support it, but as a responsible society, we have to remember that increasingly large numbers of Americans don't have options whether or not they'll drive the Yukon or take the train to work. Public transit is their only option.

As for me and my family, we shall ride the train to the store (isn't that a Bible verse? )

[redjeep77]

I prefer to call SUV's "Uraban Assault Vehicles". I dunno why, but i heard that and i think that it sounds pretty funny. I personally drive one, but i used to live way out in the country where the roads aren't good at all and 4WD is a must. Plus i regularly hauled "lots of crap". But i def agree with ya'll saying that they are a complete waste for soccer moms. We grew up with a station wagon (now there's a more practical application)that had plenty of room for us. Granted we had to cram in on family vacations (and we didn't have tv's or dvd players , but the wagon got us from point a to point b in one piece. Why can't people just go back to those?

Or what do ya'll think about the new hybrid trucks and suvs? I think that those are the way of the future. Soccer moms can have their cake (and we can eat it too). Less pollution, same capabilities of hauling around a bunch of annoying kids!

[monsoon]

So I guess you guys will think this answer to the Hummer (the real one) is bit over the top?

[dubone]

i love the spectacles on the grill.

[mediamongrel]

As many others have stated more elloquently than I, an SUV's fuel consumption affects all of us, not just the owner.  They help increase our dependence on foreign oil.  When will people learn that there is virtue in conservation?  It helps the planet, our health, and our bank accounts. 

On a personal note, I hate them for a reason beyond the obvious: they take up more than one parking space.  While it may be the Escalade or H2 owner's right to own and drive whatever they please, it is not their right to control the parking lot at the Harris Teeter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just an observation; You might want to blame Harris Teeter then for their parking spots causing pollution, because soccer moms who drive SUVs are exactly the people they want shopping there. They dont want a shopper who buys 2 Ramen Noodles and drives a Ford Festiva. Oh well...still I see quite a trend on this board...hmmm

[monsoon]

i love the spectacles on the grill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is to protect it from all of the hazzards on the way to the opera or walmart. Note this is the smaller two seater version.

[ElricSeven]

I should clarify and say that large SUVs are generally a waste unless they are used on a regular basis for their unique abilities--hauling lots of crap, towing heavy loads, etc. Small SUVs like Freelanders, Escapes, CRVs, etc are alright because they offer enough utility for most people.

Soccer moms driving Suburbans and Navigators to the grocery store whilst hauling one baby seat (or *gasp* two) are burning up our world--doing a great disservice to everyone else. Sure, it's her right to do so, but it is still wrong. I can't imagine how such a person could justify using a vehicle like that when their daily life has no need for it. Pragmatism is not dead--it is just suppressed, apparently.

Most of those large SUVs aren't even capable offroad. The front ends are so heavy and the weight is so poorly distributed that even in 4WD mode, they literally sink in mud or any loose surface. I've seen it happen a lot. In mud I'm better off in a VW Jetta than I am in a Ford Expedition. Recent experience proves that too!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I drive an Explorer. But, I probably burn less gas than most cause I only live a mile from work. On weekends, I need something to tow my boat from storage to the lake. Everytime someone frowns at my use of an SUV, I encourage them to compare gas mileage and then the number of miles we each drive. I make 19 trips to work on one gallon, they use a gallon each way to work, if they live in the nether regions of Ballentyne, even with a Hybrid.

I'm waiting for gas to be $3.00 a gallon so I can get an even bigger SUV off of someone being crushed by the expense. I can afford the extra 10 cents to drive to work every day.

[reverbandwhiskey]

"Just an observation; You might want to blame Harris Teeter then for their parking spots causing pollution, because soccer moms who drive SUVs are exactly the people they want shopping there. They dont want a shopper who buys 2 Ramen Noodles and drives a Ford Festiva. Oh well...still I see quite a trend on this board...hmmm"

What does car choice have to do with shopping budgets? There are just as many people who are doing quite well financially who choose to drive a socially responsible car. You see SUV's as a status symbol, whereas others see them quite differently as you have seen from the other members of ths community.

There is a wonderful book out currently called High & Mighty which is a critical analysis of the SUV and the emotional/psychological profile of the people who purchase them. The author uses the car companys' own market research to paint a fairly accurate picture of what has become an absurd segment of the marketplace. I think you would find it to be a very interesting read.

[Miesian Corners]

Just an observation;  You might want to blame Harris Teeter then for their parking spots causing pollution, because soccer moms who drive SUVs are exactly the people they want shopping there.  They dont want a shopper who buys 2 Ramen Noodles and drives a Ford Festiva.  Oh well...still I see quite a trend on this board...hmmm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Note to self: avoid driving my Festiva to the Harris Teeter for ramen noodles (and boquets of fresh flowers). Although tasty and easy to prepare (but not the least bit nutritious), Food Lion will appreciate my ramen habit more (than HT) because I make less than mediamongrel and drive a car that fits into a standard parking space.

Whew! Glad that's settled!

[reverbandwhiskey]

"I drive an Explorer. But, I probably burn less gas than most cause I only live a mile from work. "

Why are you driving to work if you only live a mile from it? You could walk or ride a bike. Also, you are not getting 19 trips to work on one gallon. EPA gas mileage estimates are not based on the type of driving that you are doing.

P.S. There is a bill before congress that would allow your employer to actually PAY you up to 100$ per month to walk or bicycle to work.

[ElricSeven]

"I drive an Explorer. But, I probably burn less gas than most cause I only live a mile from work. "

Why are you driving to work if you only live a mile from it?  You could walk or ride a bike.  Also, you are not getting 19 trips to work on one gallon.  EPA gas mileage estimates are not based on the type of driving that you are doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I drive because it saves me 30 minutes a day and from being really hot and sweaty. I'm a lawyer and my time is billed so that 30 minutes is really important to me. Also, I have to wear a suit a good number of times and carry work with me. But, when the weather is nice and a little on the cool side I walk. Starting in the Fall I'll be a half mile from work and will walk all the time.

Even if the estimates are off, I still burn a lot less gas than probably 99% of commuters. Remember too that everyone who commutes to Uptown has to do the same type of driving I do at the end of their trip. So, it is an apples-to-apples comparison. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the type of vehicle you drive has a lot less effect than the distance you drive. Even hybrid vehicles really aren't efficient to make up for a commute that's only 2 miles further than the mile I have already.

Ergo, the person driving the Hummer and driving occasionally or for a short distance might be a lot more environmentally conscious than the person living 30 miles a day in a Ford Festiva. Not to mention the fact that they use a lot fewer roads and other resources living close to work in a dense urban environment.

And, again, the Festiva isn't going to tow my boat.

[Miesian Corners]

I drive because it saves me 30 minutes a day and from being really hot and sweaty.  I'm a lawyer and my time is billed so that 30 minutes is really important to me.  Also, I have to wear a suit a good number of times and carry work with me. 

Even if the estimates are off, I still burn a lot less gas than probably 99% of commuters.  Remember too that everyone who commutes to Uptown has to do the same type of driving I do at the end of their trip.  So, it is an apples-to-apples comparison.  I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the type of vehicle you drive has a lot less effect than the distance you drive.  Even hybrid vehicles really aren't efficient to make up for a commute that's only 2 miles further than the mile I have already.

Ergo, the person driving the Hummer and driving occasionally or for a short distance might be a lot more environmentally conscious than the person living 30 miles a day in a Ford Festiva.  Not to mention the fact that they use a lot fewer roads and other resources living close to work in a dense urban environment.

And, again, the Festiva isn't going to tow my boat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does any of this have to do with the subject at hand? We're talking ramen noodles here, man!