Charlotte Hornets and the Arena

[ah59396]

You make a good point on it being the first pro team in the city. I also agree that Charlotte supports a winner. I'm just of the impression that being "The Hornets" as opposed to being "The Bobcats" would be better for the franchise and better for business. The Hornet name has a historic connection to the city and this would be an excellent opportunity for Jordan to finally make the team his own. He tried to buy a minority in the Hornets back in '98 and Shinn shut him down. The fact that the Bobcats haven't come right out and said "We are not pursuing a name change" to me shows that they see the opportunity here.

Like cltwimob said, no one in the city cares about the Bobcats or has a connection to the team. The name is 7 years old and represents a crappy owner, a terrible product on the floor, a series of gaffs in terms of draft picks and a bitter taste in many peoples mouths towards the NBA and Time Warner Cable Arena. You may or may not agree with the thought behind it, but something as trivial as as nostalgic name change would draw people to the team and benefit it. We can "if they were good" all we want but they aren't. The name change will put butts in the seats for another season as they develop their youth and become a good team.

[cltbwimob]

Well, I completely disagree with your assessment that if they were in the playoffs that this would a story. Where was this story in 2010 when the Bobcats were in the playoffs? It was the one, and really only, season that there was an excitement about this team. Both playoff games were packed with nothing but Bobcats fans (a rarity these days). I had season tickets that year (and still do) and I had countless people trying to pay more than face value for those Game 3 tickets, again a rarity these days. Now you can barely give away those tickets because the team stinks so bad. I'm all for the name change if it brings back a buzz around the city again, as I have no real tie to either name. But the real reason this has become a story is because the team plays at the D-League level now. If they had been in the playoffs the last few years, you'd hear crickets about changing the name. People, especially in Charlotte, don't like being associated with mediocrity and lack of recognition. And that's what the current name resembles.

Actually, the first story that I can remember about this came out in May of 2010. This was right around the time that the Bobcats were making their only playoff run and specualtion was just beginning to surface regarding the future of the NOLA Hornets with George Shinn. Local media and even some local media outlets outside of the Charlotte area started "buzzing" about the possibility when George Shinn officially sold the Hornets back to the NBA. That is also when I found out about the We Beelieve FB group. It has recently become a big ticket item with all the news swirling around the new ownership of the NOLA Hornets, and seems that it may reach a fevered pitch in the near future. Nearly every local media agency has talked about it and just today I read an article on ESPN about the possibility. To say this is a recent phenomenon is not 100% accurate; it only seems that way because it is no longer just a long shot but looks like a real possibility. When the Bobcats made their playoff run, nobody really new that George Shinn would sell the team to the NBA who, in turn, would sell the team to an owner who said he would rebrand the team tomorrow if he could.

I disagree with your point about mediocrity...The Hornets were rarely ever better than a mediocre team and yet they led league attendance for 8 of their first 10 seasons and finished second in the other 2 seasons. Additionally, the Carolina Panthers are typically an average to below average team with the exception of 96, 03, 05, and 08 seasons, yet still are a league leader in attendance nearly every year. In fact, I can remember only one year where they finished outside the top ten and even that year they finished at a respectable 12. Mediocrity does not necessarily doom a Charlotte sports team to the purgatory of poor ticket sales and countless money losing years. What will cause such doom is lack of a sense of community. Both the Hornets and Panthers became integral parts of the Charlotte and even the Carolina communities at large, the Bobcats have struggled on this point and it has cost them. Whereas the Panthers and the Hornets always felt as if they were a fixture of the Charlotte community, not just the sports scene, the Bobcats have always seemed to just exist in the Charlotte community and never really felt as if they were a part of it to a lot of people (fans excluded).

Edited April 18, 2012 by cltbwimob

[HopHead]

Well, I'll state again that I'm not opposed to the name change. Especially if it does generate more interest in the franchise again. However, if they change the name and the team still isn't any good people will forget about all that and will not show up or buy tickets. Just so you know (if you didn't) it will take about 2 years to do a rebrand according to the league. By then you'd have what you would hope to be a competitive team. Charlotte as we all know is a different city than it was 20 some years ago (though I wasn't here then). The nostalgia of being the new or only team in town is long gone. It will be interesting to see what happens to the OKC Thunder if and when their franchise stinks for a few years. Right now they are a modern day Charlotte Hornets.

BTW - Don't try to tell the 8,000 or so season ticket holders that no one cares about the Bobcats! It's a small but somewhat loyal following! ;-)

[HopHead]

Actually, the first story that I can remember about this came out in May of 2010. This was right around the time that the Bobcats were making there only playoff run and specualtion was just beginning to surface regarding the future of the NOLA Hornets with George Shinn. Local media and even some local media outlets outside of the Charlotte area started "buzzing" about the possibility when George Shinn officially sold the Hornets back to the NBA. That is also when I found out about the We Beelieve FB group. It has recently become a big ticket item with all the news swirling around the new ownership of the NOLA Hornets, and seems that it may reach a fevered pitch in the near future. Nearly every local media agency has talked about it and just today I read an article on ESPN about the possibility. To say this is a recent phenomenon is not 100% accurate; it only seems that way because it is no longer just a long shot but looks like a real possibility. When the Bobcats made their playoff run, nobody really new that George Shinn would sell the team to the NBA who, in turn, would sell the team to an owner who said he would rebrand the team tomorrow if he could.

I disagree with your point about mediocrity...The Hornets were rarely ever better than a mediocre team and yet they led league attendance for 8 of their first 10 seasons and finished second in the other 2 seasons. Additionally, the Carolina Panthers are typically an average to below average team with the exception of 96, 03, 05, and 08 seasons, yet still are a league leader in attendance nearly every year. In fact, I can remember only one year where they finished outside the top ten and even that year they finished at a respectable 12. Mediocrity does not necessarily doom a Charlotte sports team to the purgatory of poor ticket sales and countless money losing years. What will cause such doom is lack of a sense of community. Both the Hornets and Panthers became integral parts of the Charlotte and even the Carolina communities at large, the Bobcats have struggled on this point and it has cost them. Whereas the Panthers and the Hornets always felt as if they were a fixture of the Charlotte community, not just the sports scene, the Bobcats have always seemed to just exist in the Charlotte community and never really felt as if they were a part of it to a lot of people (fans excluded).

There's no doubt that the Bob Johnson version of the Bobcats was completely removed from the Charlotte community. They didn't do much of anything. Johnson only ever shot himself in the foot. However, since Jordan bought the team two years ago, they've done A LOT in the community. You could easily argue they've done more than the Panthers lately. MJ has donated money to middle school sports, handed out thanksgiving dinners to the needy and started a Cats Care initiative. You don't have to look hard to find that now. Even one of their starting players, Gerald Henderson, was given the KIA community award by the NBA for what he's done locally to help war veterans.

Regarding the name change movement, I've "heard" about it... but honestly it was only a VERY small group of people. It was mostly swept under the rug or came up when someone got bored. It's only this year that it's become a vocal and more represented group. Again, I don't care about the name. If they want to change it, I'll support the team regardless.

Ok, now I'm officially done with discussing this for now. I need to get back to work! Lol.

Edited April 18, 2012 by dbull75

[cltbwimob]

^^^I did say most people don't care but that was not meant to say that no one cares. I was not trying to marginalize Bobcats fans in the least. In fact, you could probably go so far as to say that the 8000 or so Bobcats season ticket holders are probably the most coveted fans for any NBA franchise, as you guys are the antithesis to the fairweather fan.

[ah59396]

BTW - Don't try to tell the 8,000 or so season ticket holders that no one cares about the Bobcats! It's a small but somewhat loyal following! ;-)

^^ I concur. You guys are MAD loyal and I applaud you. I guess we can huff and puff all we want, but we will have to wait and see what happens.

[fortyniner]

^I agree with you DBull. Honestly, I don't care for the Bobcats OR the Hornets name much. I have no connection to the Hornets because I didn't live here during their time. Both names come with baggage. I'd much rather they go with Cougars (and use Bobcats and Hornets both as throwback jersey night). But I do own some Bobcats merch, and I'd hate for my *meager* investments into supporting our local team to be nullified. In that vein, the vote of the season ticket holders (the shareholders of the barely-buoyant franchise) should get the ultimate decision.

As for the popularity of the Hornets swag right now... it's not about the team, it's about the style. Remember years back when everyone was sportin' Brooklyn Dodgers throwback fashion? Did the Mets try to win back the name from LA?

^I agree with you DBull. Honestly, I don't care for the Bobcats OR the Hornets name much. I have no connection to the Hornets because I didn't live here during their time. Both names come with baggage. I'd much rather they go with Cougars (and use Bobcats and Hornets both as throwback jersey night). But I do own some Bobcats merch, and I'd hate for my *meager* investments into supporting our local team to be nullified. In that vein, the vote of the season ticket holders (the shareholders of the barely-buoyant franchise) should get the ultimate decision.

As for the popularity of the Hornets swag right now... it's not about the team, it's about the style. Remember years back when everyone was sportin' Brooklyn Dodgers throwback fashion? Did the Mets try to win back the name from LA?

Cougars? You've got to be kidding. The Cougars were based in Greensboro, playing there, in Raleigh, and in Charlotte.

Hornets is unique to Charlotte. Even our old baseball team used the name before the Knights came into existence.

The Hornets, prior to George Shinn's greed and threats to move the team, were fun to watch. Great teal colors. Good music at the games. Even WBT's broadcasts ended with the "We love you, Charlotte Hornets" song (I believe it was written by Maurice Williams). Certainly bring back the Hornets name and colors, and Hugo the mascot. That alone will not make the team better, but it will help energize the fan base. I, as one Charlottean, don't like orange. I'll bet there are plenty more out there that feel as I do.

[sharkdawg]

I would like to add that Charlotte has a much longer history with sports franchises named The Hornets. It actually dates back to 1900 with our minor league baseball team that lasted till the early 70's. If the opportunity were to arise to switch names back to the Hornets, they should jump on it.

The positive vibe associated with the bring back the Hornets would translate into positive press and more revenue. I see a lot more Charlotte Hornets gear these days than Bobcats gear.

The only question, is what would be the costs associated with changing the franchise name, logo, and colors?

[Guest]

The only question, is what would be the costs associated with changing the franchise name, logo, and colors?

2.2 mil seems to be the lump total.

[HopHead]

2.2 mil seems to be the lump total.

I think it's really an arbitrary number for the name change. I've heard as low as $2M and high as $7M or $8M. It's probably somewhere in the middle depending on when they do it and how much they actually rebrand. For instance, I couldn't see them doing something like changing the colors of the arena seats like someone else mentioned. I believe a gauge of how bad they need to do it is if you had the grass roots group who is calling for it pick up donations. For example, say they get 10,000 people to sign the petition. Let them get $100 per person to contribute towards it. I think it would send a strong signal to team management by saying "hey, we've raised $1 million to donate towards the name change." Then let the team cover the rest.

[cityboi]

North Carolina needs to stop naming teams after cats. Greensboro had the ABA Carolina Cougars, Charlotte has the Carolina Panthers and Charlotte Bobcats. The name should relate to Charlotte's history and identity. Charlotte is a big banking center and that's partially due to gold mining in the Charlotte area during the 19th century. The "nuggets" are already taken by Denver The "Charlotte Bankers" sounds pretty silly. The "Charlotte Gold" doesn't sound good. But I guess the easiest solution is to revert back to the Hornets if New Orleans goes through with the name change. The name "Hornets" means nothing to New Orleans. Its like when the New Orleans Jazz moved to Utah. The name moved too. The majority of Charlotte residents polled want the name changed back to the Hornets. I loved the teal and purple colors. Maybe it will bring some fan interest back. I miss the good ole days of Larry Johnson, Muggsy Bouges and Alonzo Mourning. Something needs to be done. The Bobcats have the worst record in the NBA and its attendance is among the lowest in the NBA despite having a brand new arena with more luxury boxes. That translates to losing money and mumbles about selling or even moving the team if the Bobcats consistently lose money. But lets face it. None of this would have never happened if George Shinn hadn't screwed the city of Charlotte. That whole fiasco tainted the NBA in Charlotte when Charlotteans learned it wasn't about the fans anymore.

Edited April 23, 2012 by cityboi

[HopHead]

Apparently the NBA's deputy commissioner (the #2 guy behind David Stern) is in Charlotte tonight for the game versus the Knicks. One of the things he's expected to talk to the Bobcats about is the Hornets nickname. LOTS of things have to happen yet (starting with the New Orleans team sale becoming official and then they apply for new name) but it could set the wheels in motion for the Charlotte Hornets 2.0 to happen.

[cltbwimob]

^^^Hopefully so.

I would love to see this piece of Charlotte history returned.

If Jordan changes the name and puts puts a good product on the court, the NBA may once again become a big part of the Charlotte psyche. In a separate note, at some point I'd like to see the Curry brothers playing for the Charlotte Hornets 2.0...A couple of hometown heroes wouldn't hurt either.

[Urbanity]

I had to post this...

[HopHead]

^^LOL. yea, I saw that too. MJ has been ripped in the national media A LOT over the last week. They were even a topic of conversation on numerous occasions on various ESPN shows recently. Easily the most the Bobcats have been talked about in 2 years.

[ah59396]

I'll be really surprised if we get the first pick. The Bobcats are cursed...CURSED I SAY!

[tozmervo]

I was half way through an article "Hornets win number one draft pick" before I realized they were talking about the New Orleans team. My brain clearly wants that name back.

[richyb83]

The New Orleans Hornets just got a new owner and wants to change their name....

The owner for Utah is the problem....they do not want to give up the name Jazz (the name they aquired way back in 79 when the franchised moved away from New Orleans)...Utah is the Beehive State so figured Hornets might fit if they wanted to trade....but it does not look like it will happen.

....maybe, just maybe Charlotte can get the name Hornets back when New Orleans officially changes their name??

[HopHead]

What a crock last night was... New Orleans had a 13% chance of getting the pick (were actually 4th going in) and they land the #1 spot. I don't really buy the conspiracy theorists that say it's rigged (at least based on what media people said goes on where the ping pong balls are selected) but it stinks. I think people would have less of a gripe if the Wizards won it though. NBA owned team soon to be sold gets the #1 pick will raise eyebrows regardless of how you spin it. Charlotte finally had a chance to land a true franchise player and lost out. Hopefully whoever is selected #2 will be a game changer... Can't get any worse than this past season.

Edited May 31, 2012 by dbull75

[atlrvr]

It absolutely has the impression of improriety.

If any other team besides New Orleans had landed the first pick, it wouldn't have raised a question, but the NBA winning its own lottery???, I'm open to believing it was rigged.

Stern has a long long history of questionable actions, and the way they handled their ownership of the Hornets is clearly alarming.

If I'm MJ, I at least leverage this perception om improriety into getting something (like NBA granting a waiver allowing both the Hornets and Bobcats to change names within a quicker timeframe than the league currently allows).

[ah59396]

Told you they were cursed.

And the NBA is rigged. How magical that the Cavs get the first after Lebron leaves. How magical that the NBA manages to broker some amazing deal for the Hornets and a month later, they land the #1 pick. How magical that a ref comes out and says games were fixed, but is just made to be some random outsider by the league and scapegoated.

9 teams in the NBA have won the title in the last 30 years. Chew on that.

While I support the Bobcats because of Charlotte, the NBA is a joke and a shell of what it was. Now excuse me while I continue watching the Stanley Cup Finals. Go Kings.

[HopHead]

What the NBA really needs to do is get rid of the lottery, period. That way you get rid of this conspiracy garbage. The Bobcats had a 25% chance of getting that 1st pick and 75% of not getting it. Shouldn't happen to a team that really sucked as bad as they did. And yes, New Orleans has had too many gifts lately. They also recently got the 2014 All-Star game. I'm tired of New Orleans. It's time we stuck it back to that city (sports wise, anways). Starting with when the Saints come her for a visit in September. I wouldn't complain one bit if the Panthers were able to run up the score on them.

[atlrvr]

Per Rick Bonnell of the Observer, one of the media members present for the drawing said the Hornets actually "won" twice. The first pick, and the third pick. Since they can't win again, the third pick was re-drawn, in which case the Bobcats won again, so they re-drew a third time, and the Wizards "won".

The Hornets being selected 2 out of the first 3 drawings is far less likely mathemathically than them simply winning the 1st pick. It should happen less than 3% of the time. Again, can happen, but the fact that it was an NBA owned team makes this extremely sketchy.

If I were the Bobcats, I would request an audit of all the balls and look for discrepencies (lighter balls for numbers that corresponded to greater share of Hornet winning combinations maybe?) I'm not a big believer in conspiracy theories, but I am a big believer in statistics and greed.

[ah59396]

I'm with atlrvr. Jesse Ventura is a nut job. But the nba "tweaking" things just a little for more profit is much more likely.

[HopHead]

I went with my wife and some friends to the Coldplay concert last night at TWC Arena. I only casually listened to them before, but I was amazed by the performance they put on. Easily one of the top 5 concerts I can recall seeing (and I've seen a lot dating back to the late 1980s). But my one continued annoyance, and it seems to occur at almost any event I seem to go to whether it's in CLT or another city, is the SLOWNESS of vendors at such events. They had probably half the bartenders they needed to accommodate the number of people attending the show. You have a 18,000 people for a concert, how are you not properly staffed with either more efficient servers or just more people to ring up orders while someone is getting drinks? You know on a night like this the arena is making some serious coin (lots of people are double fisting the $8 beers and $9 liquor drinks). Surely they could afford a few more people to serve. Anyways, off my soap box. Hopefully one day, these venues will get better... Probably dreaming though. All about the almighty $.

Edited July 4, 2012 by dbull75