Cap over Belk Freeway (277)

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

57 minutes ago, JHart said:

This is definitely focused on pedestrians. The "rail trail" portion in Uptown is absolutely not usable by bikers. There is adequate space between stations but the route weaves between benches and the tracks in the stations and has people standing waiting for the trail all of the time. 

For sure, I just wish it was fluid through Uptown for bikers too.  But this will be very beneficial in getting more foot traffic into Uptown from SE (vice versa).  I think Convention goers will benefit massively as well...sometimes ppl visiting the city for the first time, mass transit can be intimidating and they stay within the 277 parameters (they have no idea about SE).  This pedestrian bridge will be a fantastic gateway to showoff the booming South End area.  It kind of already is, but once completed, this will be a major attraction/connection.  Like the High Line, the rail trail should be heavily marketed as an Eat, Drink, Shop and a place to wander/explore/exercise.

[Blue_Devil]

41 minutes ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

For sure, I just wish it was fluid through Uptown for bikers too.  But this will be very beneficial in getting more foot traffic into Uptown from SE (vice versa).  I think Convention goers will benefit massively as well...sometimes ppl visiting the city for the first time, mass transit can be intimidating and they stay within the 277 parameters (they have no idea about SE).  This pedestrian bridge will be a fantastic gateway to showoff the booming South End area.  It kind of already is, but once completed, this will be a major attraction/connection.  Like the High Line, the rail trail should be heavily marketed as an Eat, Drink, Shop and a place to wander/explore/exercise.

This bridge will also boost the possibility of Apartment Towers being built in Uptown in this area as well. 

[kermit]

Bipartisan infrastructure bill looks to be moving forward with$10 billion cut from transit investments (while increasing highway spending by $1 billion — climate arson). The big looser in the renegotiated bill was funding for urban freeway removal, it was basically axed.

On the brightside, intercity rail did really well.

 

[kermit]

As seen on tweeter:

Philadelphia converted their urban highway (I-676) to a river for $0.  Lets do this Charlotte!

[RANYC]

2 minutes ago, kermit said:

As seen on tweeter:

Philadelphia converted their urban highway (I-676) to a river for $0.  Lets do this Charlotte!

Based on Philly's example, we need mother nature to help

[Madison Parkitect]

27 minutes ago, kermit said:

As seen on tweeter:

Philadelphia converted their urban highway (I-676) to a river for $0.  Lets do this Charlotte!

The loss and destruction of lives is awful, but look how great this looks! A river through there (and 277) would be so cool.

[kermit]

DC folks saying that there is a large chunk of money for "reconnecting communities" in the reconciliation bill. Certainly no guarantee it happens but money would have certainly contributed to the removal of the Belk. Too bad its not on anyone in power's radar to do that.

The $10 billion for transit to affordable housing is very interesting, but I don't think CATS has anything suitable in the works for that program either.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been disappointed with the city/county/CATS in terms of a) their slowness to plan; b) their lack of vision; c) their lack of preparation to request federal funds. It is as if no one in local government realizes that Charlotte's future is going to require massive foresight and  investment.  Lest anyone interpret this as a political statement, the state has also been punting on preparing for our future for more than 20 years.

Edited September 11, 2021 by kermit

[Windsurfer]

On 9/2/2021 at 1:37 PM, RANYC said:

Based on Philly's example, we need mother nature to help

Maybe this idea is all in jest, but I don't see how the concept could even be considered seeing that that part of 277 climbs a ridge.  Maybe flood Morehead down where it crosses under 77?

[kermit]

6 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Maybe this idea is all in jest,

it is.

Most folks (and everyone talking about on UP) realize that a body of water is topographically impossible. However, the river meme does a nice job illustrating how much space is wasted by 277 and how much more that land could do for the community. 

(greenspace, transit route and a few streets to heal the grid would be a much better use of this land)

Edited September 11, 2021 by kermit

[TGIBridays]

On 9/11/2021 at 1:23 PM, Windsurfer said:

Maybe this idea is all in jest, but I don't see how the concept could even be considered seeing that that part of 277 climbs a ridge.  Maybe flood Morehead down where it crosses under 77?

Aqueducts anyone?  /s

[kayman]

On 9/11/2021 at 11:50 AM, kermit said:

DC folks saying that there is a large chunk of money for "reconnecting communities" in the reconciliation bill. Certainly no guarantee it happens but money would have certainly contributed to the removal of the Belk. Too bad its not on anyone in power's radar to do that.

The $10 billion for transit to affordable housing is very interesting, but I don't think CATS has anything suitable in the works for that program either.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been disappointed with the city/county/CATS in terms of a) their slowness to plan; b) their lack of vision; c) their lack of preparation to request federal funds. It is as if no one in local government realizes that Charlotte's future is going to require massive foresight and  investment.  Lest anyone interpret this as a political statement, the state has also been punting on preparing for our future for more than 20 years.

There's a good bit that I could further cover in the politics thread, but if you really want the truth it has to do with the lack of leadership in Charlotte elected officials. The toothpaste is out of the tube on urban street grid disruption. The I-277 situation is here to stay so the only real mitigation method would be covering it with green space, see Dallas, Columbus, Philadelphia as examples of how. 

[KJHburg]

Here is the Kyle Warren freeway cap park in Dallas.  I will be there late next week and take some updated photos. The park links the traditional downtown core with its uptown Dallas area. 

In the meantime Charlotte needs more park land everywhere especially in fast growing areas including intown like NoDa, Southend, westside.  I like these freeway caps but they are so expensive and rather see right now we build out our greenway system.   The Rail trail pedestrian bridge is great start but we really need to complete buildout of our greenway system and that puts parks and green space all over the city. 

Klyde Warren Park | Klyde Warren Park | Dallas Texas

Edited September 14, 2021 by KJHburg

[kayman]

51 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Here is the Kyle Warren freeway cap park in Dallas.  I will be there late next week and take some updated photos. The park links the traditional downtown core with its uptown Dallas area. 

In the meantime Charlotte needs more park land everywhere especially in fast growing areas including intown like NoDa, Southend, westside.  I like these freeway caps but they are so expensive and rather see right now we build out our greenway system.   The Rail trail pedestrian bridge is great start but we really need to complete buildout of our greenway system and that puts parks and green space all over the city. 

Klyde Warren Park | Klyde Warren Park | Dallas Texas

Agreed! The Mecklenburg Playbook (the Parks & Greenways master plan  update) is coming out in a few weeks. There will be a boatload of reccomendations for how we should aggressively build out our parks, greenways, and active green spaces throughout the main core county (Mecklenburg) while laying down a framework for our emerging core counties (Cabarrus, Gaston, Union, & York counties; Iredell is technically apart of this pack as well)

[B Randy]

5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Here is the Kyle Warren freeway cap park in Dallas.  I will be there late next week and take some updated photos. The park links the traditional downtown core with its uptown Dallas area. 

In the meantime Charlotte needs more park land everywhere especially in fast growing areas including intown like NoDa, Southend, westside.  I like these freeway caps but they are so expensive and rather see right now we build out our greenway system.   The Rail trail pedestrian bridge is great start but we really need to complete buildout of our greenway system and that puts parks and green space all over the city. 

Klyde Warren Park | Klyde Warren Park | Dallas Texas

Agree on spending on greenway connectivity now. 

I'd personally like to wait on capping strategies until we see how near South End site developments and Stadium conversations advance over the next several years.  Also sustaining migration/ED trends post COVID.  I think a bigger/more comprehensive strategy than "let's cap between Church and College" will be in order after that all shakes out a bit...

[KJHburg]

Since this is a favorite discussion point on this board here is my visit (and have been here a few times) to the freeway cap park in downtown Dallas the Klyde Warren Park.  It is 2 blocks long and connects their traditional downtown core to their uptown area (2 separate areas) It had a lot of private money put into it as Dallas does not have the park system Houston and other cities have in the state. There are some privately owned parks downtown but this is one of the biggest.   Photos from on the cap, above the cap and going under the cap!   Huge playground and lots of kids which means there must not be any other park close.  most of the residents probably live in the uptown area which is full of apartment and condo towers.  Row of food trucks was present too. 

Klyde Warren Park | Klyde Warren Park | Dallas Texas

and they are expanding it!  will check out on future visits to the Big D

Dallas approves $30M in funding for Klyde Warren Park expansion | (spartnerships.com)

Edited September 28, 2021 by KJHburg

[RANYC]

8 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Since this is a favorite discussion point on this board here is my visit (and have been here a few times) to the freeway cap park in downtown Dallas the Klyde Warren Park.  It is 2 blocks long and connects their traditional downtown core to their uptown area (2 separate areas) It had a lot of private money put into it as Dallas does not have the park system Houston and other cities have in the state. There are some privately owned parks downtown but this is one of the biggest.   Photos from on the cap, above the cap and going under the cap!   Huge playground and lots of kids which means there must not be any other park close.  most of the residents probably live in the uptown area which is full of apartment and condo towers.  Row of food trucks was present too. 

Klyde Warren Park | Klyde Warren Park | Dallas Texas

and they are expanding it!  will check out on future visits to the Big D

Dallas approves $30M in funding for Klyde Warren Park expansion | (spartnerships.com)

I was just about to be impressed with Dallas until the one pic with the "Ozone Watch" alert...

[KJHburg]

Just now, RANYC said:

I was just about to be impressed with Dallas until the one pic with the "Ozone Watch" alert...

Not windy like it usually is and it was dry air.  It is usually more humid and with more wind.  

[RANYC]

4 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Not windy like it usually is and it was dry air.  It is usually more humid and with more wind.  

Quick google search says that Dallas has a 1.4 square mile downtown area.

Charlotte's Uptown is 2.12 square miles.  Downtown Dallas appears far bigger than Uptown Charlotte. however.  How would you compare the two urban cores given you're on the ground there?

Edited September 28, 2021 by RANYC

[KJHburg]

9 hours ago, RANYC said:

Quick google search says that Dallas has a 1.4 square mile downtown area.

Charlotte's Uptown is 2.12 square miles.  Downtown Dallas appears far bigger than Uptown Charlotte. however.  How would you compare the two urban cores given you're on the ground there?

Downtown Dallas is about the same size as uptown Charlotte it seems to me.  this uptown Dallas district is like the Gold district size but all high rises.   That is why this cap park was important.   Here is an aerial I found online.   You see the freeway cap to the left. 

[JHart]

2 blocks is all it would take. College to Church and you wouldn't even have to redo any on/off ramps to 277. It sure would make that new Uptown Cabaret tower that much more appealing to overlook a brand new park heading into Uptown.

[Desert Power]

Going to Dallas this weekend for the Panthers game, will have to check that out. Looks like an impressive cityscape too

[CLT2014]

In true Texas fashion, over 50% of the funding for Klyde Warren Park in Dallas came from private donations, led by a $10 million donation from billionaire Kelcy Warren who got naming right (after his son). Interestingly, while the park is open to the public and the land is owned by the city of Dallas, it is operated by the private Woodall Rodgers Park Foundation. They fundraise for park operations, programming, and the construction of new amenities in the park as well as the operating budget for the park. The park also has hours of operation from 6AM to 11PM with private security paid by the foundation that clear the grounds of homeless, et. each night. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

16 hours ago, Desert Power said:

Going to Dallas this weekend for the Panthers game, will have to check that out. Looks like an impressive cityscape too

You should hop on a DART and ride downtown.  (visit Fort Worth if you have a chance too) 

@CLT2014you are right they paid for half of it privately.  There are several private parks in downtown Dallas too but small ones like where the huge Eyeball is and the Thanksgiving Square. 

[B Randy]

6 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

In true Texas fashion, over 50% of the funding for Klyde Warren Park in Dallas came from private donations, led by a $10 million donation from billionaire Kelcy Warren who got naming right (after his son). Interestingly, while the park is open to the public and the land is owned by the city of Dallas, it is operated by the private Woodall Rodgers Park Foundation. They fundraise for park operations, programming, and the construction of new amenities in the park as well as the operating budget for the park. The park also has hours of operation from 6AM to 11PM with private security paid by the foundation that clear the grounds of homeless, et. each night. 

See also Millennium Park in Chicago for that story.  $250M public for basics/infra, $200M private to "make it a true park for the next Millennium" w/ sculptures, world class designers and amped up materials.

[Blue_Devil]

2 hours ago, B Randy said:

See also Millennium Park in Chicago for that story.  $250M public for basics/infra, $200M private to "make it a true park for the next Millennium" w/ sculptures, world class designers and amped up materials.

I could see a corporate drive raising some great funds for a park here, especially with all that was raised for the new Library.