Church Street Station

[neon9]

Too bad it's not an S & M store. Now THAT would be interesting! Huh? Huh? (Fozzie wiggles his ears)

Sorry. My attempt at humor.

That sounds much more exciting than this clothing store. But they probably would close them down.

I remember not long after I first moved here Glenda Hood tried to get some law/code passed that limited the number of tattoo parlors on Orange Avenue. Don't any of these republicans believe in the power of the free market anymore? It was obvious to me there are only so many tattoos that you can get (besides many of the people walking by are drunk and were in no shape to be stuck) and the herd had to be thinned a little....

[mrh3]

I don't post that often, but I am a bit of an amateur expert on H&M locations and couldn't resist -- in DC, they opened their area flagship store in a long-defunct department store site that anchors a downtown shopping district still in a very very slow retail revitalization process -- so it seems like they certainly have a business model for supposedly risky downtown locations. Granted, the DC site had tons of amenities (on top of a Metro station, etc.) and greater population density in surrounding residential neighborhoods, but I think, I hope, I really hope that this bodes well for getting a branch downtown. People go Ikea-style insane when these stores first open, it would be an awesome asset for downtown.

Just thought about this, but H & M also tends to multiply rapidly in its markets. The first NYC location was on 5th Ave. Shortly thereafter there were two Midtown East locations, two 34th St. locations, two Soho locations and a Harlem location. In San Francisco, they opened on Powell and Market which had long been considered retail poison despite its location across from Gap's flagship and Urban Outfitters, but they took the risk. I could very easily see H & M in a new and improved CSS, but most definitely at Millenia and Florida Mall. H & M goes after both heavily trafficked residentail neighborhoods (Harlem) as well as destination retail locations Soho and 34th St.

BTW: Has American Apparel arrived in Orlando yet? That would be a perfect brand for downtown (if Orlando could handle the ad campaign)!

Also, I was thinking that if the retail brokers in Orlando could create a district (My preference would be Magnolia Ave.) filled with local retailers, boutiques, etc... It would automatically attract national retailers. I'm curious as to how many non-food and beverage retailers exist currently within the CBD core.

Edited June 12, 2007 by mrh3

[bulldogger]

Also, I was thinking that if the retail brokers in Orlando could create a district (My preference would be Magnolia Ave.) filled with local retailers, boutiques, etc... It would automatically attract national retailers. I'm curious as to how many non-food and beverage retailers exist currently within the CBD core.

You might be able to count that on one hand.

There's 2 clothes stores next to Gino's pizza on Orange. There's a hippy/buddhist store on Court just north of The Plaza. There's a cell phone store on the same block as WBQ on Magnolia. There's that interiors place on the back/north end of CSS, but not sure if they are staying. The Mini Cooper store. There's an art gallery on Robinson called The Office Gallery. It's in the building with the B&S Daily Market up on the second floor.

Does the post office count? They sell stamps.

[jack]

My preference has always been Magnolia ave. But it will be difficult. The street is small and intimate and would be a perfect retail district. Beyond that, I think every other location is less then ideal. Magnolia has all of the historic buildings that stand out. No major retailer could go in since all of the suites are small.

[mrh3]

You might be able to count that on one hand.

There's 2 clothes stores next to Gino's pizza on Orange. There's a hippy/buddhist store on Court just north of The Plaza. There's a cell phone store on the same block as WBQ on Magnolia. There's that interiors place on the back/north end of CSS, but not sure if they are staying. The Mini Cooper store. There's an art gallery on Robinson called The Office Gallery. It's in the building with the B&S Daily Market up on the second floor.

Does the post office count? They sell stamps.

Unfortunately, why would a national retail risk the capital to invest Downtown if locals wont' even take the risk and one would assume that they would have an intrinsic need to invest in their own community.

[jack]

True. But another good thing about Magnolia is that many of the ground floor space in vacant. The reail on the magnolia side of the is small (11K) but could jump start the street

[Whipp]

Unfortunately, why would a national retail risk the capital to invest Downtown if locals wont' even take the risk and one would assume that they would have an intrinsic need to invest in their own community.

we had larger retail before but because the downtown ped traffic was always strictly transient they could not survive. now that we finally have a burgeoning residential presence happening, its much more stable for retail. it will happen eventually. its not that locals won't take the risk, its just never been as good a market as it is turning into.

[hillcity]

Well, pardon me... or rather "moi".

Since we're being so European-ish.

And if you want to be really cool and European you have to pronounce it "Hoi-M", like they do in Stockholm and Copenhagen.

H&M in our downtown? Dunno, too good to be; with our luck, it'll end up on I-Drive next to Wonder Works (or whatever it's called). Besides, H&M was only cool when I was living on student loan money in London. I got a job now.

By the way, the H&Ms I've seen in the northeast cities, like Philly and NYC, are urban storefront models and stand alone, just like in Europe; and yes, people go Ikea-style silly when they open in a new market. But whoever described them as Zara-lite, got it right, the clothes are cheap and still look nice, but do fall apart after like 2 or 3 trips to the washing machine.

Quick question though, for everyone, speaking of Victoria Secrets and tattoo shops in downtown; How many would support adult entertainment in downtown? Would there be support amongst the pro-urban-folk for the city permitting adult uses downtown?

Edited June 13, 2007 by hillcity

[codypet]

You might be able to count that on one hand.

There's a cell phone store on the same block as WBQ on Magnolia.

The cell phone store went belly up about 2 months ago. That's one less

My g/f and her friends love H&M, I think there will be a market for it in Orlando. They'll come all the way from UCF to shop there.

Edited June 13, 2007 by codypet

[JFW657]

Quick question though, for everyone, speaking of Victoria Secrets and tattoo shops in downtown; How many would support adult entertainment in downtown? Would there be support amongst the pro-urban-folk for the city permitting adult uses downtown?

I would be all for a nice topless joint or two downtown, but the proverbial snowball in hell has a better chance.

[Whipp]

Quick question though, for everyone, speaking of Victoria Secrets and tattoo shops in downtown; How many would support adult entertainment in downtown? Would there be support amongst the pro-urban-folk for the city permitting adult uses downtown?

that's so..."casselberry"

[WeNeed2Progress]

I have no idea how you guys got onto I-Drive from the Church Street topic, but here's something to get back on track. Kuhn is possibly looking for retail tenants for a yet to be detailed Church Street project, and H&M is looking for it's first Orlando location, hummm.........

Just a little something from your friend who brought you the 'Ikea story'.

If the Church Street mall is successful, then place a UNIQLO in there to compete with H&M. It's more affordable than H&M, at least the Japan stores are. I've not been to their American stores yet. UNIQLO is great quality, especially considering the price.

[JFW657]

If the Church Street mall is successful, then place a UNIQLO in there to compete with H&M. It's more affordable than H&M, at least the Japan stores are. I've not been to their American stores yet. UNIQLO is great quality, especially considering the price.

Sounds kind of ambitious considering that DTO doesn't even have a GAP.

There used to be a store in the Exchange that sold Jimmy Buffet and Duck Head clothing.

And there was a Victoria's Secret and a Bennetton and all that other stuff.

Maybe Kuhn will get all that kind of stuff back in the Exchange.

Bring it back to where it was in it's heyday.

That would be cool.

But do away with that third floor arcade. All it ever did was atttract punk kids.

[demon]

And if you want to be really cool and European you have to pronounce it "Hoi-M", like they do in Stockholm and Copenhagen.

H&M in our downtown? Dunno, too good to be; with our luck, it'll end up on I-Drive next to Wonder Works (or whatever it's called). Besides, H&M was only cool when I was living on student loan money in London. I got a job now.

By the way, the H&Ms I've seen in the northeast cities, like Philly and NYC, are urban storefront models and stand alone, just like in Europe; and yes, people go Ikea-style silly when they open in a new market. But whoever described them as Zara-lite, got it right, the clothes are cheap and still look nice, but do fall apart after like 2 or 3 trips to the washing machine.

Quick question though, for everyone, speaking of Victoria Secrets and tattoo shops in downtown; How many would support adult entertainment in downtown? Would there be support amongst the pro-urban-folk for the city permitting adult uses downtown?

Downtown San Diego had some sex shops, but no strip clubs. The ones in Orlando are awful anyway.

[orlandonative]

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If you want to spam forums take it to SSC. Go away now.

[mrh3]

Well regarding the Magnolia thing isn't Dynetech going to have retail at the base? Couldn't a national retailer like a Barnes and Noble or Borders go in there? That would be perfect.

[JRS1]

Well regarding the Magnolia thing isn't Dynetech going to have retail at the base? Couldn't a national retailer like a Barnes and Noble or Borders go in there? That would be perfect.

that is a great idea. Barnes and/or Borders is on Michigan Ave. in CHI, DC, NYC, etc... but wouldn't they need a lot of square footage?

[mrh3]

that is a great idea. Barnes and/or Borders is on Michigan Ave. in CHI, DC, NYC, etc... but wouldn't they need a lot of square footage?

I'm not sure, can't find the exact floor plate size (would estimate 60K on two levels), but if the broker for Dynetech is reading this I would strongly recommend sending them a package. I bet that Dyer would even throw in a couple bucks for good measure. Regarding the overall health of the retail market downtown, I noticed that ICSC doesn't have any conferences scheduled down there. (International Council of Shopping Centers, basically the clearing house for real estate developers to locate retail tenants). If there were great synergy between property owners and retailers, I'm sure that retail could rebound. Not to mention if the City of Orlando spearheaded a retail shopping campaign once the new stores open.

Currently, NYC is doing a 2010 campaign which is really hot. Although it seems really futuristic its only 10 quarters away. All of the projects that are slated to be completed by then are highlighted. It's a really cool way to look at the future of the city. If anything it keeps people aware and instills pride. Orlando could easily duplicate that.

Edited June 13, 2007 by mrh3

[VistaLakes01]

I'm not sure, can't find the exact floor plate size (would estimate 60K on two levels), but if the broker for Dynetech is reading this I would strongly recommend sending them a package. I bet that Dyer would even throw in a couple bucks for good measure. Regarding the overall health of the retail market downtown, I noticed that ICSC doesn't have any conferences scheduled down there. (International Council of Shopping Centers, basically the clearing house for real estate developers to locate retail tenants). If there were great synergy between property owners and retailers, I'm sure that retail could rebound. Not to mention if the City of Orlando spearheaded a retail shopping campaign once the new stores open.

Currently, NYC is doing a 2010 campaign which is really hot. Although it seems really futuristic its only 10 quarters away. All of the projects that are slated to be completed by then are highlighted. It's a really cool way to look at the future of the city. If anything it keeps people aware and instills pride. Orlando could easily duplicate that.

What about that empty parking lot across the street from Dynatech. Magnolia would be perfect for a retail district, especially since the LYMMO runs the entire lenghth of that part of Magnolia. If everyone remembers, Magnolia used to be the one way street heading north (SR527) and northbound traffic was moved over to Rosalind Ave. The city cul-de-sac'd each end of Magnolia stating that part of the downtown development plan was for Magnolia to be a pedestrian friendly retail street.....hopefully that is the point we are at now, although I don't remember which Mayor it was that was supporting that effort, if it was Frederick or Hood? Wonder if Dyer is aware, he may be focusing more on Church St., Premiere Trade Plaza and the West Church Parramore area for retail. I think West Church could be a great historical type neighborhood with shops, restaurants, and African American art galleries and history museums. I believe CityView and Hughes was supposed to stimulate that growth, and when you actually think about it, there probably is more retail/restaurant growth happening in that area than Uptown, where the big Cheney apt/condo complexes have been built along with 801 N. Orange. In that area, something has to be done to make it more pedestrian friendly to cross back and forth over Colonial. It also doesn't help (mentally) to have signs on Colonial that indicate turning south on Orange to "Downtown." If the city would build a downtown gateway on each side of Colonial to include Colonial in with downtown that would probably add to the allure of the area.....maybe from Westmoreland on the west and Mills or Summerlin on the east. Or some of that fancy signage that's downtown put on and in the Colonial area directing traffic to "Uptown, Midtown, PAC, Library,CBD, Thornton Park, Eola Heights,SoEo, Lake Ivanhoe/College Park, Colonialtown/ViMi, each Hospital, Wall Street, Parramore (I think a few nice Parramore neighborhood gateways would put some pride into the area like so many other Orlando neighborhoods have.) "Welcome to Historic Parramore, another one of Downtown Orlando's great neighborhoods." These little cosmetic changes (and keeping them maintained)would unify Downtown Orlando and spur development. "Welcome to Parramore, Home of the Florida A&M school of law, the Orlando Majic, something to that effect...." There are little signs directing to the College Park shopping district and the Thornton Park shopping district. Isn't Colonialtown/Little Saigon/ViMi a huge shopping district? Even East Colonial in the historic Colonial Plaza area and Fashion Square area could be named as a major shopping area in central Orlando. I believe that area was originally called "Coytown." There could be a few pedestrian overpasses in that area like in Kendall/Dadeland in Miami or Buckead/Lenox/Phipps in Atlanta and make it more pedestrian friendly and streetscaped a little better. There was a start at the Colonial/Bumby intersection, that type of thing should continue at least to Maguire or Bennett Roads. These areas are all part of our inner-city Orlando neighborhoods. But BACK TO CHURCH STREET, SORRY IF I GOT CARRIED AWAY....!

[bulldogger]

I'm pretty sure the official boundary of downtown is Hillcrest or Concord.

Also, the vietnamese district tried to convince the city to make an archway over there and they didn't go for it. I think the city missed out on a local tourist attraction that wouldn't need anything added to it to make it happen other than a freakin arch. Tourists would come in and take pictures, spend money within the city bounds and they really wouldn't have to promote it much. It could be done completely on the web, press releases, and through word of mouth for next to nothing.

[jack]

I'm not sure, can't find the exact floor plate size (would estimate 60K on two levels), but if the broker for Dynetech is reading this I would strongly recommend sending them a package. I bet that Dyer would even throw in a couple bucks for good measure. Regarding the overall health of the retail market downtown, I noticed that ICSC doesn't have any conferences scheduled down there. (International Council of Shopping Centers, basically the clearing house for real estate developers to locate retail tenants). If there were great synergy between property owners and retailers, I'm sure that retail could rebound. Not to mention if the City of Orlando spearheaded a retail shopping campaign once the new stores open.

Dynetech only has 11k total and much of it is unvailable. There is a 2-story suite on the Washington side that is a little over 3k. There are only 3 suites (4 if you count the basement. The lot is very small. The basement has parking in there that accounts for most of teh space.

[WeNeed2Progress]

Well regarding the Magnolia thing isn't Dynetech going to have retail at the base? Couldn't a national retailer like a Barnes and Noble or Borders go in there? That would be perfect.

Because Dynetech Centre's retail space is so small (don't forget that they had to have a coffee shop inside), and we would like to see Magnolia become a downtown retail corridor, why not take the space that used to be Gweneviere's/Natura on Magnola and Pine and turn that into a Borders or local independant bookstore? The back has a second floor entrance, they could open it up and put upstairs lofts in the gallery portion.

[neon9]

(International Council of Shopping Centers, basically the clearing house for real estate developers to locate retail tenants).

ICSC used to sponsor/promote/be associated with this

Retailer one on one

but I don't see it mentioned anymore. But it's the same idea.

[bulldogger]

Because Dynetech Centre's retail space is so small (don't forget that they had to have a coffee shop inside), and we would like to see Magnolia become a downtown retail corridor, why not take the space that used to be Gweneviere's/Natura on Magnola and Pine and turn that into a Borders or local independant bookstore? The back has a second floor entrance, they could open it up and put upstairs lofts in the gallery portion.

I don't know what they are doing there. I tried to get someone to talk to me about leasing space out of that building and didn't even get a response. This was a year ago and ended up going somewhere up Magnolia, but that old Rogers Building was my first choice.

Edited June 13, 2007 by bulldogger

[VistaLakes01]

I'm pretty sure the official boundary of downtown is Hillcrest or Concord.

Also, the vietnamese district tried to convince the city to make an archway over there and they didn't go for it. I think the city missed out on a local tourist attraction that wouldn't need anything added to it to make it happen other than a freakin arch. Tourists would come in and take pictures, spend money within the city bounds and they really wouldn't have to promote it much. It could be done completely on the web, press releases, and through word of mouth for next to nothing.

I remember that, that's one of the main problems with Orlando, the govt seems to have the idea that if Disney didn't build it then it's not worth it......... I'll always remember when the Orlando club/dance scene made the headlines of Rolling Stone magazine how hard Hood worked to shut the clubs down. It always seemed funny that the city supported Universal CityWalk within the city limits of Orlando, wonder what the city recvd($$) for supporting a nightclub district at Universal. It must have been worth it, that was also the final nail on Church Street's coffin. That may have been for the best, I prefer what is happening on Church St. now as opposed to the old tourist attraction, as long as all the new development is a success. Also "Light Up Orlando" could have turned in to some sort of traditional street party, like Gasparilla, Mardi Gras, Guavaween, where the residents of the city could relax and have a good time once a year and not be herded off in to roped off "beer drinking" areas. And one more complaint....at the time the Majic were in the playoffs/championship the World Cup Soccer thing was going on in Orlando and Mayor Hood wanted to make the dome on top of city hall in to a soccer ball.....hello, local basketball team makes big, mayor doesn't give a crap.......Hopefully it's all been a lesson and we are much more pro-Orlando now and finally ready to do something for the residents of this city. Let the mouse now be in the shadow of Orlando, and Orlando no longer be in the shadow of the mouse!