Parking problem downtown - too much of it? Not enough?

[GRDadof3]

It doesn't rise to the level of lead in the drinking water, but it's definitely something that needs some quick action, and long term action. Since ramps take so long to plan, design and build, as Pam Ritsema said, they need to identify a site soon. 

Is there a way to build one, whether the theater complex gets built or not? Leave a liner building spot for future development?

 

[organsnyder]

14 hours ago, x99 said:

All this residential construction and stuffing IT workers and dozens of other low-level employees downtown with no plan for parking I'm sure seemed like a brilliant idea at the time.  They'll all take the Silver Line!  Or ride a bike!  Well, they didn't.  Oops.  Now what?  An announcement from Mayor Bliss that downtown is happy to have your business as long as your CEO, your employees, and your customers will all take the bus or ride a fat bike?  

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this paragraph, but I think you have a misguided notion as to what kind of jobs are coming downtown. The average salary in GR for a software developer is somewhere around $80-90k. Other IT jobs range in salary (some higher than that, some lower), but they are hardly entry-level positions. Perhaps these jobs are "low-level" to some misguided people in terms of prestige, but they're certainly not low-level in terms of income.

As a downtown worker, I feel the most pressing concern with parking isn't the lack of monthly passes available. Rather, it's the lack of options for those that only need to commute by car occasionally. I take the bus to work most days, but I need to drive a few times a month for various reasons. I've been fortunate to find a parking lot that is inexpensive and not too heavily utilized, but with the development going on in that area I doubt it will remain such a good deal for more than a year or two. If I were to park in one of the ramps where there is always availability, I'd pay $10 for the day—at those rates, it only takes a few driving days per month before the financial equation shifts to the point that I might as well buy a monthly pass. I would love to see an option where I could spend $15-20 per month for a "parking flex-pass" that would give me 3-4 days of pseudo-guaranteed parking (perhaps reserved online the day before).

Right now, there are few options between the extremes of no-car commuting and all-car commuting. That is the chief problem we need to address.

I happen to prefer taking the bus to driving. This morning, I had the opportunity to take a short walk, play a game on my phone, and make some progress in the book I'm reading—all at the cost of adding ~15 minutes to my commute time (probably less today, since I would have had to defrost my car).

[thebeerqueer]

16 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

It doesn't rise to the level of lead in the drinking water, but it's definitely something that needs some quick action, and long term action. Since ramps take so long to plan, design and build, as Pam Ritsema said, they need to identify a site soon.

Is there a way to build one, whether the theater complex gets built or not? Leave a liner building spot for future development?

 

To throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, Pam Ritsema is retiring. At least that's what we've been told on the Westside when we want to address the Laker Line/Bridge St. parking dilemmas.

[wingbert]

22 minutes ago, thebeerqueer said:

To throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, Pam Ritsema is retiring. At least that's what we've been told on the Westside when we want to address the Laker Line/Bridge St. parking dilemmas.

 

I'm sure there's an Ellis family member who would be happy to take the job.

 

[x99]

2 minutes ago, thebeerqueer said:

To throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, Pam Ritsema is retiring. At least that's what we've been told on the Westside when we want to address the Laker Line/Bridge St. parking dilemmas.

You know, that somehow doesn't really surprise me.  This is the first time I can remember in years where she actually had the nerve to state the obvious and risk angering her employers.  

3 hours ago, organsnyder said:

Perhaps these jobs are "low-level" to some misguided people in terms of prestige, but they're certainly not low-level in terms of income.

Right now, there are few options between the extremes of no-car commuting and all-car commuting. That is the chief problem we need to address.

By low-level I basically meant guys that work out of cube farms.  You can stuff tons of them into very small spaces.  Traditional downtown employers like lawyers and bankers and finance types took up 300-400 square feet of space per employee.  If I cube farmed my office, it would hold 10 times as many people.  That places tremendous strain on a parking system not designed for it.  

Think like a guy trying to run a service business/office, if you want to understand the problem.  That you like the bus doesn't matter.  Customers won't.  I counted today, coming back from a meeting and having to park in one of the last available spaces.  30 spaces.  That's how close I--and everyone else in my office building--is coming to having to cancel all meetings and appointments.  That is completely unacceptable for any service-oriented business where customers come on site.  If and when those somehow fill up, the ramifications for downtown will not be good.  Businesses will leave because they will not have a choice.

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, x99 said:

You know, that somehow doesn't really surprise me.  This is the first time I can remember in years where she actually had the nerve to state the obvious and risk angering her employers.  

By low-level I basically meant guys that work out of cube farms.  You can stuff tons of them into very small spaces.  Traditional downtown employers like lawyers and bankers and finance types took up 300-400 square feet of space per employee.  If I cube farmed my office, it would hold 10 times as many people.  That places tremendous strain on a parking system not designed for it.  

Think like a guy trying to run a service business/office, if you want to understand the problem.  That you like the bus doesn't matter.  Customers won't.  I counted today, coming back from a meeting and having to park in one of the last available spaces.  30 spaces.  That's how close I--and everyone else in my office building--is coming to having to cancel all meetings and appointments.  That is completely unacceptable for any service-oriented business where customers come on site.  If and when those somehow fill up, the ramifications for downtown will not be good.  Businesses will leave because they will not have a choice.

I've never "not been able to find a parking spot" in a ramp downtown in all my years living here, until recently. We went to an event at Devos Hall last Fall and literally could not find a place to park. Several ramps let us take a ticket to get in but were completely full, and cars were jammed up trying to get back out. I had to drop the fam off and park way up by GRCC and walk back down. This was not during AP either. 

I also had to go all the way to the top level of the Fulton/Ottawa ramp to get pics of The BOB several months ago. 

 

[joeDowntown]

i always considered the Louis-Ottawa ramp as my best kept secret. Easy in, easy out, always parking on the second level. We went to a Griffins game last week and had to park in the top level. I have NEVER had that happen before. My secret is not so secret anymore. Haha

Joe

[x99]

Posted this link in another thread, but here it is again.  This is what a crisis looks like: 

http://grcity.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/Monthly-Cards-Available.aspx

 

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, x99 said:

Posted this link in another thread, but here it is again.  This is what a crisis looks like: 

http://grcity.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/Monthly-Cards-Available.aspx

 

Wonder why no one likes the Government Center ramp? 

[EastownLeo]

The biggest issue I have seen is that Grand Rapidians don't understand that they have legs and can walk.  In Chicago you will rarely find a parking ramp close to your destination, If you find street parking its blocks away and you need to walk.  Our downtown is relatively small. With the skywalk and other methods of navigation the city you can get pretty much anywhere and find parking.  As the density of downtown grows there will be more opportune for fringe parking.  Dash service and walking is the easiest solution.  We just need to be less Lazy.

 

 

[Dj Augustine]

You are correct.

[ctpgr34]

Couldn't agree more

[Ted]

24 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

  We just need to be less Lazy.

 

 

+1. Every day...

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, EastownLeo said:

The biggest issue I have seen is that Grand Rapidians don't understand that they have legs and can walk.  In Chicago you will rarely find a parking ramp close to your destination, If you find street parking its blocks away and you need to walk.  Our downtown is relatively small. With the skywalk and other methods of navigation the city you can get pretty much anywhere and find parking.  As the density of downtown grows there will be more opportune for fringe parking.  Dash service and walking is the easiest solution.  We just need to be less Lazy.

 

 

That's like saying that people need to be nicer to each other. It's a fine and noble sentiment but you can't build a business plan around it. 

Systems and data all day long. Even in Chicago they have massive systems to handle the parking issue, you just don't realize it. In fact, one of the hottest apps in Chicago right now helps you find low cost parking spots, close to your destination. 

 

[arcturus]

Would love to know the age of the 4 posters prior to GRDadof3.

[GR_Urbanist]

3 hours ago, EastownLeo said:

The biggest issue I have seen is that Grand Rapidians don't understand that they have legs and can walk.  In Chicago you will rarely find a parking ramp close to your destination, If you find street parking its blocks away and you need to walk.  Our downtown is relatively small. With the skywalk and other methods of navigation the city you can get pretty much anywhere and find parking.  As the density of downtown grows there will be more opportune for fringe parking.  Dash service and walking is the easiest solution.  We just need to be less Lazy.

 

 

And you've hit the problem as to why people dont want to walk.

"Our downtown is relatively small"

Our DT is a boring, lifeless place with little to see, huge gaps of emptiness, and very little of interest  or use to people that work down there.

Once it is 5pm, you want to get to your car and get out as fast as you can because you have other errands to accomplish, and those are located in far away shopping corridors. And who wants to get stuck in a mess of cars for 20 minutes just to get to Meijer because you parked blocks away from where you work? Like where else are you going to get anything done downtown anyway?

In a city like Chicago, you leave work, you walk 3-4 blocks, and on the way you stop at multiple places like maybe a bookstore, Payless, Norstrom's Rack, White Hen Pantry, or Target. By the time you get to your car, you are done, traffic has thinned out a little, and you can head straight home and you haven't burned a drop of gas.

In Grand Rapids, you have nice, but pricey local shops with limited selection. Half of them are closed, none are on your way, and you still have to drive to finish your errands. You are already paying a ton for parking, you are tired and want to get your car out of that money suck.

 

[Ted]

5 minutes ago, arcturus said:

Would love to know the age of the 4 posters prior to GRDadof3.

I'm 48.

[mpchicago]

25 minutes ago, GR_Urbanist said:

And you've hit the problem as to why people dont want to walk.

"Our downtown is relatively small"

Our DT is a boring, lifeless place with little to see, huge gaps of emptiness, and very little of interest  or use to people that work down there.

Once it is 5pm, you want to get to your car and get out as fast as you can because you have other errands to accomplish, and those are located in far away shopping corridors. And who wants to get stuck in a mess of cars for 20 minutes just to get to Meijer because you parked blocks away from where you work? Like where else are you going to get anything done downtown anyway?

In a city like Chicago, you leave work, you walk 3-4 blocks, and on the way you stop at multiple places like maybe a bookstore, Payless, Norstrom's Rack, White Hen Pantry, or Target. By the time you get to your car, you are done, traffic has thinned out a little, and you can head straight home and you haven't burned a drop of gas.

In Grand Rapids, you have nice, but pricey local shops with limited selection. Half of them are closed, none are on your way, and you still have to drive to finish your errands. You are already paying a ton for parking, you are tired and want to get your car out of that money suck.

 

You don't give downtown GR enough credit.  Is it perfect, by no means, but it's 100% better than when I worked/lived down there 15 years ago. In the next 5 years it's going to be even better.  You want to know lifeless and boring? Go to Toledo. 

I've got some news for you.  At 5pm here in Chicago, everyone wants to get the hell out of the Loop and get home.  It's a complete cluster of commuters heading directly to the trains, with taxis and cars clogging up the streets. And if you are waiting for traffic to thin out you will be waiting till 9pm.  The only reason people are staying downtown after work is because they are going out for drinks and dinner with clients.  If you are shopping it's usually at the lunch hour.

Do you really know what it is to pay a ton for parking?   Come to Chicago and you will find out.   It may sound like I'm down on Chicago, but I'm not. I love it, just not the politics or the taxes. 

Grass is always greener.

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, mpchicago said:

You don't give downtown GR enough credit.  Is it perfect, by no means, but it's 100% better than when I worked/lived down there 15 years ago. In the next 5 years it's going to be even better.  You want to know lifeless and boring? Go to Toledo. 

I've got some news for you.  At 5pm here in Chicago, everyone wants to get the hell out of the Loop and get home.  It's a complete cluster of commuters heading directly to the trains, with taxis and cars clogging up the streets. And if you are waiting for traffic to thin out you will be waiting till 9pm.  The only reason people are staying downtown after work is because they are going out for drinks and dinner with clients.  If you are shopping it's usually at the lunch hour.

Do you really know what it is to pay a ton for parking?   Come to Chicago and you will find out.   It may sound like I'm down on Chicago, but I'm not. I love it, just not the politics or the taxes. 

Grass is always greener.

 

I was going to say that the average Grand Rapidians Chicago experience is not the same as being a Chicago resident and the parking experience/problems. The parking situation is really bad in Chicago neighborhoods. So bad that there's complete corruption built into the political system around the parking issue. 

[GRDadof3]

4 hours ago, arcturus said:

Would love to know the age of the 4 posters prior to GRDadof3.

"Shut up you lazy old man." - City of Grand Rapids Mobility Department. 

[GRDadof3]

Here's an idea the mobility department should think about: build a big ramp over on the West Side that is "limited access," meaning you can only come and go once a day (you'd pay a $20 fee to get your car out in an emergency), and offer it at a great discount over city center ramps. Get the people who work downtown who don't need their cars during the day out of the core. 

Same would work with an expanded park-n-ride bus shuttle service. 

 

[thebeerqueer]

2 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Here's an idea the mobility department should think about: build a big ramp over on the West Side that is "limited access," meaning you can only come and go once a day (you'd pay a $20 fee to get your car out in an emergency), and offer it at a great discount over city center ramps. Get the people who work downtown who don't need their cars during the day out of the core.

Same would work with an expanded park-n-ride bus shuttle service.

 

I feel like not that long ago you mentioned not allowing the Westside to turn into a parking destination. I agree a large ramp needs to be added to the mix, those dash lots are ripe for redevelopment with loads of parking, i.e. liner buildings.

[EastownLeo]

On February 19, 2016 at 2:07 PM, GRDadof3 said:

That's like saying that people need to be nicer to each other. It's a fine and noble sentiment but you can't build a business plan around it. 

Systems and data all day long. Even in Chicago they have massive systems to handle the parking issue, you just don't realize it. In fact, one of the hottest apps in Chicago right now helps you find low cost parking spots, close to your destination. 

 

They also have another system to handle the parking issue.  Public Transportation.  The elevated trains do a good job moving people.  The bus system is better than here.   Also  don't forget how Chicago residents like to call dibs on parking spots with folding chairs.

[ctpgr34]

On 2/19/2016 at 3:26 PM, arcturus said:

Would love to know the age of the 4 posters prior to GRDadof3.

I'm 40

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, thebeerqueer said:

I feel like not that long ago you mentioned not allowing the Westside to turn into a parking destination. I agree a large ramp needs to be added to the mix, those dash lots are ripe for redevelopment with loads of parking, i.e. liner buildings.

Yes, it would be good if it wasn't just a massive parking garage with no other use going on. Although right next to the highway would be tough to get any traction with retail, unless it was large scale. Maybe like the Whole Foods or the University Village marketplace that sits right next to I-90 in Chicago. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8647453,-87.6446608,3a,75y,281.15h,84.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s60_kq4wuvhB3wxmuiRF2Yw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1