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4 billion dollar project announced for Va. Beach

Telmnstr

By Telmnstr
in Virginia Beach

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tombarnes City

tombarnes

Posted
Posted

I agree with most of your points. All I'm saying is that, whatever the advantages of the proposal, a boom in tourism from Asia will likely not be one of them. Oceana's days are very likely limited, as you say. Virginia Beach would do well to look past fighter wings for future sustenance.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Let's see, 12,000 jobs at $45K year = $540M. Certainly there is the "circulation" factor, but the bottom line is $540M.

But just imagine the laughter if an employer wanted to come to VB and said, in return for a $540M payroll, I want to pay zero RE or personal property tax. I also want 20% of my employees to pay no RE tax, I want 75% of them to not pay car registration fees or taxes, and I want 50% of them exempt from state income taxes. But you will educate their children and provide the roads for them to get to work. I will negatively impact the quality of life for every home within five miles of my property, and I want to dictate land use policies for every acre within ten miles. You could hear the laughter all the way to Roanoke.

All that said, I'd rather have a nuclear power plant (grin). Huge investment, big addition to the tax base. Few employees demanding services, and all of them pay taxes. Compared to a NAS, not a bad deal. (this is only partially a joke)

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skylinefan Hamlet

skylinefan

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Besides the obvious benefits of this proposal, it calls into question exactly what should Va. Beach look like 10, 15, 20 or more years from now. My problem with this proposal is it solidifies Va. Beach as simply a seasonal resort. I thought the city was striving to become a hub of high tech industry and year round employment. I just don't see this proposal advancing this vision. I know Oceana will close some day, but lets keep it open long enough so that the support businesses, contractors etc can transition and support new high tech industries. I think we are mesmerized too much by tall buildings sometimes and don't sometimes see the forest for the skyscrapers.

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Padman Hamlet

Padman

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This is a good discussion. It's probably similar to ones that VB City leaders have on a fairly regular basis, regardless of their "public" statements about retention of Oceana. Eventually, things will change. Probably, the Hornets will go somewhere else more appropriate, especially if the resort can attract more activity and the rest of the city continues to grow, which it will. It would be a nice start if we could get part of the Sun Rise proposal to happen, say at Rudee Loop. Then get a nice convention hotel adjacent to the convention center, and an entertainent complex within a short walking distance. These are things that could be secured within the next year or so. Bolster the existing trolley system to serve these new developments. It's these incremental changes that will eventually establish the tipping point where the resort economy exceeds the Navy economy.

I believe that John Whaley at the HRPDC conducted an analysis of the effect of closing Oceana. I don't remember the exact findings but it suggested a short term loss from the closing and the associated multiplier effects and then an eventual wash or even a benefit to the economy. You just can't forecast these things precisely. We just have to take some reasonable risks and try to make this a better place to live and work.

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skylinefan Hamlet

skylinefan

Posted
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This is a good discussion. It's probably similar to ones that VB City leaders have on a fairly regular basis, regardless of their "public" statements about retention of Oceana. Eventually, things will change. Probably, the Hornets will go somewhere else more appropriate, especially if the resort can attract more activity and the rest of the city continues to grow, which it will. It would be a nice start if we could get part of the Sun Rise proposal to happen, say at Rudee Loop. Then get a nice convention hotel adjacent to the convention center, and an entertainent complex within a short walking distance. These are things that could be secured within the next year or so. Bolster the existing trolley system to serve these new developments. It's these incremental changes that will eventually establish the tipping point where the resort economy exceeds the Navy economy.

I believe that John Whaley at the HRPDC conducted an analysis of the effect of closing Oceana. I don't remember the exact findings but it suggested a short term loss from the closing and the associated multiplier effects and then an eventual wash or even a benefit to the economy. You just can't forecast these things precisely. We just have to take some reasonable risks and try to make this a better place to live and work.

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rusthebuss Metropolis

rusthebuss

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Padman, this sounds like a good solution. I read the same article about what type of effect Oceana's closing will have on Virginia Beach and the whole Hampton Roads area. I think that Oceana could be replaced with a nice office park catering to high tech industry. I am concerned though with what type of jobs will be generated by all of this tourist related developement. I could be wrong but from what I understand tourism although a very important aspect to an area's economy seems to generate jobs in the lower pay scale. What type of jobs would a 4 billion dollar project possibly generate? I think the city needs to take a deep breath and move very cautiously with these developers. There is alot at stake if the city departs from this cautious approach.
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cpeakesqr Hamlet

cpeakesqr

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No news... I think if SunRise really wanted to invest in Virginia Beach, it could completely revamp its proposal to comply with the Navy's dictatorial demands. Whoever said great buildings had to be tall? If they came back with a proposal that met the required guidelines , I'm sure they would blow Armada Hoffler's and any other's proposals completely out of the water. I'm pulling for SunRise...

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urbanlife Town

urbanlife

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if there is something else that the Koreans know, it is massive. If the buildings are not tall, they could easily be massive.

I really like the idea of what they want to do by the golf course. That and what they want to do with the old dome site sounds much better than what Hoffler has proposed.

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

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I hope VB considers the TPC proposal carefully. If they can remove the amusement park proposal and add another one or two pga-level golf course(s) as well as a tennis center, spa, and conference center; this could be a nice upscale resort. Throw in a man-made lake (retention basin) and small marina in that lake, that would be cool too. But I'm still wary of dealing with this company simply because of the cultural differences. It's not racism but simple sincerity. The Koreans feel offended by the City's cool reception, yet they believe that putting "Virgina Beach" as the tagline on previous proposals to other cities is respectful. I don't think VB needs to treat them differently just because their proposal is so overwhelming.

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urbanlife Town

urbanlife

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screw cultural differences, money and business is money and business no matter where you go. If a giant company wishes to spend money in VB, I say let them. I am sick of hearing people whine about getting overlooked when it comes to giant companies moving to the region, but the minute a big international developer becomes interested, it is fear the cultural differences! That is bull....well you get the picture. If you want bigger companies in Hampton Roads, you can't shun them because of where they come from and then blame it on "cultural differences."

Just to point out something.....Vancouver BC and Seattle wouldn't be the way they are now if it wasn't for the Chinese and Japanese......one day I would love to say Virginia Beach wouldn't be the way it could be without the Koreans.

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

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And home prices in those two locations have skyrocketed faster than they have in HR thanks to all the immigrants. People complain about high prices now, just wait until it turns into an Asian playground.

Anyway, it's not a fear of cultural differences, but cultural differences leading to a lack of reciprocal respect. If this was an American firm treating HR like this, everyone would be up-in-arms. But because it is an Asian firm, we need to bend over to appease them instead of doing our due diligence. Well, forget that. Why should we respect them if they don't respect us enough to present VB with something better than a half-a**** proposal? What would it have cost to send a photographer or hired one, or even taken pictures off the net of VB to get more accurate renderings? $2000 - $5000? What about a little white sheet on their company and some of their previous/current projects?

It's not like HR hasn't worked with foreign firms before: Canon, Mitsubishi, Siemens, Stihl, Volvo, Zim, CMA, Maersk, etc. to name a few. But I'll guarantee that those firms respected the various cities enough to understand our culture before coming to talk to us about setting up shop. We're not approaching them. They are approaching us. So if they don't like the way we act, let them research us first and get to know us.

Not all money and business are the same. The number of strings attached varies. And in this case, there are way too many for my taste.

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scm Hamlet

scm

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I hope VB considers the TPC proposal carefully. If they can remove the amusement park proposal and add another one or two pga-level golf course(s) as well as a tennis center, spa, and conference center; this could be a nice upscale resort.
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Padman Hamlet

Padman

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Right you are on the banks. They also have a major international airport. Some said that we bungled a chance for getting that by keeping ORF in its current location. Given all the educational and research infrastructure that they have, it wouldn't surprise me if Raleigh/Durham surpasses (in financial backbone)Charlotte in the long run.

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