4 billion dollar project announced for Va. Beach

[vdogg]

[erdogs]

[vdogg]

A global warming thread?

[skylinefan]

Legitimate question, and let me pose a few reasons why (discounting two things -- first the viability of the developer, and second, the assumption that the net payroll of all of the jobs related to this development will be less than the payroll of NAS Oceana. That, at best, is an assumption)

1. Every job related to this development will be located on real property that will be added to the tax base. Every job at Oceana has no real property tax paid on the work location.

2. Every job related to this development will utilize business personal property, all of which is on the tax rolls. Every Oceana job contributes nothing to the business personal property tax roll.

3. Every person with a job related to this development will reside in property on the tax rolls. Many of the Oceana jobs contribute nothing to the VB residental tax base (live on base, single or married), yet place a burden on all city services, especially schools.

4. Every employee with a vehicle will pay personal property and sales tax on their vehicles. Most military jobs (not civilian) related to Oceana, pay nothing in vehicle taxes, as their owners are legally residents of other states. Still filling the same roads, still contributing to the same congestion, yet largely exempt from paying for several of the sources of the funds needed to help solve the problems.

If the assumption is, that Oceana and this development, as currently envisioned, are incompatable, then the city needs to make some hard nosed decisions -- decisions that are best for VB, thirty years from now. All of these effects on the tax base, no matter how counterintuitive they may seem, need to be near the top of the considerations.

[scm]

Point 3 Not quite sure about this. I use to know people who worked at Oceana and each one lived off base.

Point 4 Good point, but not sure if the people hired as a result of this development will be local or will they be shipped on a seasonal basis from somewhere else. Atlantic City comes to mind in this regard.

[vdogg]

When cultures clash, business suffers

[vdogg]

Eastern Shore has also caught eye of Korean firms

Virginia Beach isn't the only local resort town that has caught the eye of South Korean investors.

Several unidentified Korean firms are also interested in a large resort community at the south end of the Eastern Shore.

While details of those plans remain shrouded, interest in Bay Creek could signal a bandwagon effect that would lure foreign investors to southeastern Virginia and legitimize their proposals, said an expert at Old Dominion University.

"When a company goes into a foreign market, typically their competitors will follow," said John R. Lombard, director of ODU's E.V. Williams Center for Real Estate and Economic Development. "It's a

click here

strategic response. Something that wasn't on their radar screen before now is."

The interest in Bay Creek comes after Sun Rise Development Co. Ltd. proposed a

$4 billion resort plan in Virginia Beach. The company briefly explored developing at Bay Creek, too, but has dropped that idea, said Dong Gyu Shin, a consultant to Sun Rise.

Still, Shin and local Sun Rise liaisons Jimmy Lee and James Kim took a pair of helicopters from Virginia Beach to Bay Creek on Dec. 23, they said

[urbanlife]

Leave it to the VB city council to screw up an easy thing.

[andyfried]

Leave it to the VB city council to screw up an easy thing.

[M.Rocks]

I think they will be sorry a few years up the road when they have nothing to replace Oceana.

[sugoiben]

Leave it to the VB city council to screw up an easy thing.

[spiker3]

Fair point, but consider that Oceana is leaving regardless in 10-15 years and we'll have nothing to show for it. It's a catch-22, but the end result everytime is Oceana leaving. Now or twenty years from now, they're still leaving. It's easier for VB to do it on their terms, rather than the Navy's timetable.

[urbanvb]

I wouldn't expect the city to buck against the Navy bc of the money it contributes to the city's coffers. They are going to do all they can to appease them up until the end.

[GoodNews]

It's a catch-22, but the end result everytime is Oceana leaving. Now or twenty years from now, they're still leaving. It's easier for VB to do it on their terms, rather than the Navy's timetable.

[Padman]

The Navy is leaving? After Iraq and whatever follows, I doubt that there will be a lot of money for the Navy to abandon billion dollar investments and spend even more elsewhere. There may be more political shenanigans afoot to get them to move, but cost has to play a role in these decisions sometime. Some of the Super Hornets may relocate, but I wouldn't bet on the Navy closing Oceana for a while. It will take more than a few visiting Korean millionaires to dislodge them.

[scm]

I wouldn't expect the city to buck against the Navy bc of the money it contributes to the city's coffers. They are going to do all they can to appease them up until the end.

[urbanvb]

Meaning the employees contribute a lot to the local economy.

[scm]

Meaning the employees contribute a lot to the local economy.

[spiker3]

The Navy is leaving? After Iraq and whatever follows, I doubt that there will be a lot of money for the Navy to abandon billion dollar investments and spend even more elsewhere. There may be more political shenanigans afoot to get them to move, but cost has to play a role in these decisions sometime. Some of the Super Hornets may relocate, but I wouldn't bet on the Navy closing Oceana for a while. It will take more than a few visiting Korean millionaires to dislodge them.

[rusthebuss]

There's always money somewhere, but that wouldn't be the point. The Navy has no future in Virginia Beach, and they realize that. That's why BRAC took the unprecedent step of adding Oceana to their consideration list. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is because BRAC told Jacksonville to pursue it, and they didn't want it. However, there are three or four other sites around the country that would gladly take the Navy, and they will get them.

If this was still the 1950s or if VB hadn't grown to its size that it is now, this wouldn't be an issue. It's not the Korean developers dislodging them, i think we're all in agreement that the city council doesn't have the guts to allow this project to go forward, for exactly the reason urban is talking about: money. Navy = money. But the Navy is leaving, it's only a matter of time. It's not political shenanigans. It's progress. When VB was a podunk resort town, Oceana was fine. For VB to take the next step, it'll be after leaving the Navy behind. But it'll be the Navy leaving us, because an undeveloped region of _____ state has the room for them. Our position was furthered weakened when the Republicans lost control of the Senate and Senator Warner lost the chairman of the Armed Services Committee. It won't be in the next 5 - 10 years before it happens, but there will be an announcement within the next decade that Oceana will close for good, sometime after 2020. It's inevitable. That's my issue with the city council, they're not forward thinking enough to realize this, or are in denial despite everything. We're going to lose out on progress because they're worried about the here and now, and not the future.

[urbanvb]

So, I take that as an assumption, without a quantification. Yea, they may "contribute a lot to the local economy", but it isn't for free.

[rusthebuss]

The base contributes about $1bil dollar a year to the city's economy if I remember correctly. For the record I too believe the city would benefit in the end should the base move.

[vdogg]

The base contributes about $1bil dollar a year to the city's economy if I remember correctly. For the record I too believe the city would benefit in the end should the base move.

[tombarnes]

I don't mean to discourage anyone, but somehow I don't see the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area being a huge draw for Asian tourists. Gambling might make it more attractive for this market to develop, but I do not see this happening either. Tourism from Asia is growing in parts of this country, but the west coast, Las Vegas, New York and other places will see much more from this (albeit growing) market.

[spiker3]

I don't mean to discourage anyone, but somehow I don't see the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area being a huge draw for Asian tourists. Gambling might make it more attractive for this market to develop, but I do not see this happening either. Tourism from Asia is growing in parts of this country, but the west coast, Las Vegas, New York and other places will see much more from this (albeit growing) market.