Construction Thread-Orlando-Paramount

[JRS1]

He's referring to the dead plaza at the corner of Orange/Church, not the Plaza.

actually, I think he was taking jabs at PTP with the burrito and cigar references, and downtown as a whole regarding nightlife, which is only partly true. downtown is and always has been the place to be when going out. sure, Park Ave and Restaurant Row and DT Disney and Citywalk are all awesome, but DT has always been IT for going out.

[tennis32801]

actually, I think he was taking jabs at PTP with the burrito and cigar references, and downtown as a whole regarding nightlife, which is only partly true. downtown is and always has been the place to be when going out. sure, Park Ave and Restaurant Row and DT Disney and Citywalk are all awesome, but DT has always been IT for going out.

Agreed.....i had friends in from Chicago few weeks ago, and they were impressed with the cleanliness and vibrancy of downtown. They were impressed with cheap drinks specials, thornton park area, and latitudes on wednesday nite (very packed). Even took them to Roxy, and to theirs and my surprise, it was PACKED. On related topic, I hung out at Tampa last week, and even though Bay Shore is beautiful, it was unfortunate how hyde park and Ybor City was so disconnected.

[FrigginGr8est]

actually, I think he was taking jabs at PTP with the burrito and cigar references, and downtown as a whole regarding nightlife, which is only partly true. downtown is and always has been the place to be when going out. sure, Park Ave and Restaurant Row and DT Disney and Citywalk are all awesome, but DT has always been IT for going out.

He can jab away with his miserable attitude towards downtown Orlando living all he wants, but the fact is, downtown is alive and vibrant. Urban Flats is packed on Wine Down Wednsdays you can hardly get in, with not a skateboard or a hit of X to be seen anywhere. The Cigar bar's outdoor seating is at a premium (didnt know ravers liked cigars and Port wine or brandy). Solaire is now about 75% occupied and yes there are renters, but, according to him, they don't count or go out to eat or enjoy downtown living. Im sure all of the people moving into The Paramount won't count either. I simply don't understand the tude.

[OCF]

I think it's just a "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" attitude. I felt the same way before I left for those greener pastures and discovered our lil plot of heaven ain't so bad either. Lived in Boston, DC, San Francisco, Miami and Providence and visited everywhere else in between. Overall my opinion is that our downtown is extremely healthy for a city our size and age. There's no doubt that places like Boston and San Francisco are head and shoulders above us, but they are older world class cities and cities we are striving to be. But when you compare DT Orlando to other sunbelt cities and recently developed cities like our own we are holding our own very well. Even downtown DC turns into a ghost town after hours except for U street and few other small pockets. Providence, although much older than Orlando has very 9-5 downtown, no real residential options and except for a few clubs, dead at night. In the State I feel we have one of the top, if not arguably the best downtown on the street level. Yes Miami is much more developed but at night the action shifts across the water to South Beach. Brickell is nice, but it's really a haven for he super rich who aren't really too interested in walking place to place when you have a chauferred Bentley. Now I"m just rambling but point is, Orlando DT is doing fine.

[JRS1]

my deal is this: Orlando downtown isn't perfect. it isn't NYC nor is it Boston or Chicago. But, it has an established set of retail/restaurant corridors that have always worked (Orange, Church, Central, Pine, Wall, & some stuff on Magnolia and Court), that can handle new restaurants and bar-- sort of like plug 'n play... one closes, another one opens. Add Summerlin and Eola Drive to that list too.

That's impressive for what is more or less a CBD, save for the eastern Eola neighborhood. It ain't Midtown Manhattan. But, what people don't realize is that while "Orlando" ala Disney is an impressive destination, Orlando downtown is also an impressive destination.

My litmus test is making a bare bones list of all establishments in the CBD. I started a list on SSC and I was up to 150, more or less, but I left out some places, new places opened, and older places closed. That number might be close to 180 in reality. And that's without the CCS mall from years ago.

[Camillo Sitte]

He can jab away with his miserable attitude towards downtown Orlando living all he wants, but the fact is, downtown is alive and vibrant. Urban Flats is packed on Wine Down Wednsdays you can hardly get in, with not a skateboard or a hit of X to be seen anywhere. The Cigar bar's outdoor seating is at a premium (didnt know ravers liked cigars and Port wine or brandy). Solaire is now about 75% occupied and yes there are renters, but, according to him, they don't count or go out to eat or enjoy downtown living. Im sure all of the people moving into The Paramount won't count either. I simply don't understand the tude.

Aww - poor wittle baby.

Still got a stick up your arse over your obvious crush on my I see. Let it go Nancy.

That you believe that a few punters ordering burritos and buying Dominican cigars constitutes a "vibrant nightlife" says far more about your obvious lack of experience as to what a real downtown nightlife is than it says about my "attitude".

You seem clearly to be so insecure as a person that you cannot tolerate opinions or ideas that differ from your own. You feel threatened by anything that challenges your limited, self-inscribed intellectual comfort zone thus you take it personally.

The Solaire is not 75% full, closer to 60% because a large number of units are still empty with non-occupant owners.

Bank-owned units don't count and amateur "investors" living in the suburbs or other cities entirely tend not to spend a lot of time in downtown Orlando thus quoting stupid percentage figures absent any context is pointless.

As for the Paramount - the ground floor RETAIL [not "retails" as so many here miswrite it] has a much better chance as there is a small but active community of real residents in the immediate area. If the Paramount manages to fill with owner-occupants then their chances for success are even greater.

I do not have a "bad attitude" about downtown Orlando. I have seen as man and child DT Orlando evolve and devolve from the late-70's to today. While the current state of downtown is much better than it was in the early 1980's it still hasn't recaptured what it had at it's apex in the early 90's. And while most of the downturn had to do directly with the opening of CityWalk and Pleasure Island, it was still brutal.

No, I do not have a bad attitude but neither am I a fan boi. My comments are based on decades of experience with downtown Orlando in particular, keeping personal residences in Los Angeles, Orlando and Europe [currently in flux], four professional degrees in Architecture, Planning, and Urban Design, and having spent a decade working on urban projects the world over and not because just happen to think downtowns are cool.

I mention all that not to boast but just to suggest that at the very least I am just as entitled [though no more so] to my opinions on these matters as anyone else here. My opinions and comments, my attitude if you will is one of simple realism and experience.

Now, if others here choose to embrace the roll of fan boi or uncritical booster, or whatever - then cheers mate have at it. Please, sincerely, post whatever you like. Everyone is entitled to their opinions - including me.

Still, if you feel the need to achieve some closure as regards you and I then just PM me and perhaps we can work out some way of sparing everyone else here your school-girl dramatics.

Otherwise why not just address the topics or points with which you disagree as opposed to simply giving in to your personal insecurities. That you keep making these childish personal attacks suggests that you don

[neon9]

Apparently the Paramount is being sued by condo buyers that are trying to get out of their contracts, their excuse is that they should have been told about the structural issues. No link, I think it was on Local6.com but I can't find it now...

[tennis32801]

Apparently the Paramount is being sued by condo buyers that are trying to get out of their contracts, their excuse is that they should have been told about the structural issues. No link, I think it was on Local6.com but I can't find it now...

If structural professional engineers review that it is safe now, these investors should not get their money back. Obviously they are losing on thier investment with the current market, and are looking for any excuses. By the way, fences are down on Central and Lake Avenue, and Lake Ave. is now back open both directions.

[FrigginGr8est]

Aww - poor wittle baby.

Still got a stick up your arse over your obvious crush on my I see. Let it go Nancy.

That you believe that a few punters ordering burritos and buying Dominican cigars constitutes a "vibrant nightlife" says far more about your obvious lack of experience as to what a real downtown nightlife is than it says about my "attitude".

You seem clearly to be so insecure as a person that you cannot tolerate opinions or ideas that differ from your own. You feel threatened by anything that challenges your limited, self-inscribed intellectual comfort zone thus you take it personally.

The Solaire is not 75% full, closer to 60% because a large number of units are still empty with non-occupant owners.

Bank-owned units don't count and amateur "investors" living in the suburbs or other cities entirely tend not to spend a lot of time in downtown Orlando thus quoting stupid percentage figures absent any context is pointless.

As for the Paramount - the ground floor RETAIL [not "retails" as so many here miswrite it] has a much better chance as there is a small but active community of real residents in the immediate area. If the Paramount manages to fill with owner-occupants then their chances for success are even greater.

I do not have a "bad attitude" about downtown Orlando. I have seen as man and child DT Orlando evolve and devolve from the late-70's to today. While the current state of downtown is much better than it was in the early 1980's it still hasn't recaptured what it had at it's apex in the early 90's. And while most of the downturn had to do directly with the opening of CityWalk and Pleasure Island, it was still brutal.

No, I do not have a bad attitude but neither am I a fan boi. My comments are based on decades of experience with downtown Orlando in particular, keeping personal residences in Los Angeles, Orlando and Europe [currently in flux], four professional degrees in Architecture, Planning, and Urban Design, and having spent a decade working on urban projects the world over and not because just happen to think downtowns are cool.

I mention all that not to boast but just to suggest that at the very least I am just as entitled [though no more so] to my opinions on these matters as anyone else here. My opinions and comments, my attitude if you will is one of simple realism and experience.

Now, if others here choose to embrace the roll of fan boi or uncritical booster, or whatever - then cheers mate have at it. Please, sincerely, post whatever you like. Everyone is entitled to their opinions - including me.

Still, if you feel the need to achieve some closure as regards you and I then just PM me and perhaps we can work out some way of sparing everyone else here your school-girl dramatics.

Otherwise why not just address the topics or points with which you disagree as opposed to simply giving in to your personal insecurities. That you keep making these childish personal attacks suggests that you don

[Camillo Sitte]

I can't stop lmfao at your idiotic responses. Anyone that doesn't do what you like to do is either a "punter" or "skateboard punks" or "x-ed out teen poseurs". Most of the other posters on this forum frequent those downtown spots, and so do I, so I guess we're all "punters" (haven't been on a skateboard in over a decade, never tried x).

You also need to stop with your gay bashing comments. I didn't call you names, you dumb twit, but I will sink to your childish level now. I live in The Solaire, (and also reside in Manhattan, so please don't preach to me about "real DT nightlife") it is about 75% occupied. Call the building manager, Angela Smith, oh wait, your don't count renters, only "full time owner occupied units" counts in your myopic eyes. I guess rental buildings like Dynetech will be filled with x-ed out low lives who will get their meals from the food van at Lake Eola. Also, since you reside in LA, Europe, Orlando and Uranus, you don't really count either.

As for personal insecurities and personal attacks, practice what you preach, bone head. Check your posts and count how many times you put down other DT residents and forum posters (punters, poseurs, fan boi, ect.) because they're enjoying DT life that you seem not to agree with, while you sit at home polishing the degrees on your wall, lamenting about how you "coulda been a contenda". Maybe you should "take the stick out of YOUR arse", stop crying, and try to enjoy the city and what it has to offer. Maybe you should even take skateboarding lessons.

"Still, if you feel the need to achieve some closure as regards you and I then just PM me and perhaps we can work out some way of sparing everyone else here your school-girl dramatics. "

^^^^If that's a challenge to a duel at 10 paces (again, lmfao), let me know when and where. Maybe we could do it at the non-existent artist block party on Magnolia.

Time will prove you wrong.

You are a pathetic worm. <~~ intentional personal attack.

"Cheers"

LOL! Boy, are you easy to take the piss out of.

[Boomer136]

As a frequent punter, (assuming that that term has lost the dicey connotation of yore) put me in the fan boi column. I like other cities, too, though most of them I only see the bits between the airport, the show site, and the hotel, but I do get out to the local bar districts, shocking I know. I am more jealous of Austin than any other downtown. However, Orlando is doing well. Sure we're spread out, that gives the impression that things aren't as vibrant as other towns. Most convention centers are right downtown, close to their sports venues and college campuses.

CS is right that more people living downtown would increase patronage. While not the most ingenious observation, sort of like 'It's not over 'til it's over', it is none the less correct. Also, I believe renters are somewhat human with humanlike desires and wants. As such, whether actual owners grace the halls, or renters, there will be more feet on the street. Regardless, while this mess with the whole economy going up in flames gets sorted, more people will remove themselves downtown.

CS: BTW, I am aware of "Nancy" being fighting words in some places in the world, just a heads-up that some would find it offensive whether they are a shirtlifter or no.

[nikos z]

Just thought everyone should see this,

http://www.wftv.com/news/16530308/detail.html

wow...

-Nikos Z

[FrigginGr8est]

As a frequent punter, (assuming that that term has lost the dicey connotation of yore) put me in the fan boi column. I like other cities, too, though most of them I only see the bits between the airport, the show site, and the hotel, but I do get out to the local bar districts, shocking I know. I am more jealous of Austin than any other downtown. However, Orlando is doing well. Sure we're spread out, that gives the impression that things aren't as vibrant as other towns. Most convention centers are right downtown, close to their sports venues and college campuses.

CS is right that more people living downtown would increase patronage. While not the most ingenious observation, sort of like 'It's not over 'til it's over', it is none the less correct. Also, I believe renters are somewhat human with humanlike desires and wants. As such, whether actual owners grace the halls, or renters, there will be more feet on the street. Regardless, while this mess with the whole economy going up in flames gets sorted, more people will remove themselves downtown.

CS: BTW, I am aware of "Nancy" being fighting words in some places in the world, just a heads-up that some would find it offensive whether they are a shirtlifter or no.

I find the term "shirtlifter" highly offensive (I am kidding, of course ). But, seriously, I fail to comprehend how such a worldly person (again, I jest) with so many degrees such as CS fails to see how calling someone "nancy" is offensive to gays and doesn't belong on this forum or anywhere else for that matter. If someone called me "nancy" to my face, I would deck them. For the record, I am not gay, but many of my friends happen to be and I would fight for their right to live the lifestyle of their choice. And, since this is getting waaaaaay off topic, this is my last post on this matter.

[Camillo Sitte]

I find the term "shirtlifter" highly offensive (I am kidding, of course ). But, seriously, I fail to comprehend how such a worldly person (again, I jest) with so many degrees such as CS fails to see how calling someone "nancy" is offensive to gays and doesn't belong on this forum or anywhere else for that matter. If someone called me "nancy" to my face, I would deck them. For the record, I am not gay, but many of my friends happen to be and I would fight for their right to live the lifestyle of their choice. And, since this is getting waaaaaay off topic, this is my last post on this matter.

You seem clearly to think that you are someone that everyone should know but I for one have no clue as to whether you are a man or a woman, gay or straight, or asexual for that matter.

My comments in response to your childish personal attacks are simply my opinion that you are acting like a spoiled, silly, and willful little school girl. I make no claim or comment as to the sexual orientation of said school girl.

In fact, if anything I am being misogynistic rather than homophobic.

And let me say again, regardless of your whining to the contrary, I never have been negative about Downtown or Orlando in general. I have criticized aspects of certain projects and certain directions taken and not taken but my general opinion is that Downtown's best days are ahead of it but it is currently in a very early state of infancy. Consider that by sheer statistics half of the restaurants currently open at The Plaza will have closed within a year to a year and a half.

Now, if one has based their belief that Downtown Orlando is hitting on all cylinders because of a few new restaurants at The Plaza

[Boomer136]

^Can't have it both ways. If downtown's apex was the '90's as you said many lines of text above, nobody was living downtown, nor was there much opportunity to do so. Thornton Park would have loved just to have sk8trs and x-ers, it was the crack heads and methlabs that really turned folks off about that area. I do miss Pebbles on Church however.

Now I am not in city planning or anything, but isn't it a balance of having things that will attract people to an area as well as having people already there? Kinda chicken egg cliche thing?

Truth be told, I am more excited about Publix going in than any upscale retail or restaurant. I like the idea of pushing my granny grocery basket with my cloth grocery bags on the sidewalks of downtown, into Publix, through the store & check out and back on the pavement. Heretofore it has only done the trip from the car in the garage to the kitchen. How utterly charming I think. And to see others doing the same thing, marvelous.

The Paramount will not just be the quarters of new residents, but I think the hub of downtown living. I also think that as more people realize that even if they don't work downtown, that its a great place to come home to, they'll move here. Parking the car, and not seeing it until the next time you have to go to work is very hip and more economical than ever.

But these things must be in place first. As the movie theatre showed, wish in one hand... etc. There are only so many adventurers out there, those willing to take the chance should be applauded, even if they fail. Its the pioneers that get the most arrows after all. But infancy? I think downtown is well past that. As to the pendulum swinging back from suburban to neo-urbanism, well thats new for the area I'll grant you.

After Publix opens, perhaps Total Wine can open a satellite location somewhere close by. How much more commercial space does Paramount have?

[pip]

I noitced the metal sculpture today in front of the Publix entrance. (sorry didnt have a camera with me.). I think it's pretty unique, i'm sure people will either love it or hate it (that's art afterall!)

[jack]

Only 5,000 square feet of retail space. Half will be a WaMu. They have 11,000 of office space though.

[spenser1058]

^Can't have it both ways. If downtown's apex was the '90's as you said many lines of text above, nobody was living downtown, nor was there much opportunity to do so. Thornton Park would have loved just to have sk8trs and x-ers, it was the crack heads and methlabs that really turned folks off about that area. I do miss Pebbles on Church however.

Now I am not in city planning or anything, but isn't it a balance of having things that will attract people to an area as well as having people already there? Kinda chicken egg cliche thing?

Truth be told, I am more excited about Publix going in than any upscale retail or restaurant. I like the idea of pushing my granny grocery basket with my cloth grocery bags on the sidewalks of downtown, into Publix, through the store & check out and back on the pavement. Heretofore it has only done the trip from the car in the garage to the kitchen. How utterly charming I think. And to see others doing the same thing, marvelous.

The Paramount will not just be the quarters of new residents, but I think the hub of downtown living. I also think that as more people realize that even if they don't work downtown, that its a great place to come home to, they'll move here. Parking the car, and not seeing it until the next time you have to go to work is very hip and more economical than ever.

But these things must be in place first. As the movie theatre showed, wish in one hand... etc. There are only so many adventurers out there, those willing to take the chance should be applauded, even if they fail. Its the pioneers that get the most arrows after all. But infancy? I think downtown is well past that. As to the pendulum swinging back from suburban to neo-urbanism, well thats new for the area I'll grant you.

After Publix opens, perhaps Total Wine can open a satellite location somewhere close by. How much more commercial space does Paramount have?

Bravo! A grocery store is the sine qua non for downtowns everywhere - all these other things are bonuses but nothing can really happen for potential residents until the supermarket arrives. THIS is what we've needed ever since the Winn-Dixie on Rosalind closed in the '70's. As to a liquor store, I wish Publix, which has now gotten beyond its Baptist leanings and is now doing liquor stores, would consider adding one downtown. But, one step at a time! Meanwhile, as an actual resident of downtown, all the restaurants and bars are great but being able to buy TP without ever getting in the car, is what really means we have arrived <g>.

[codypet]

Bravo! A grocery store is the sine qua non for downtowns everywhere - all these other things are bonuses but nothing can really happen for potential residents until the supermarket arrives. THIS is what we've needed ever since the Winn-Dixie on Rosalind closed in the '70's. As to a liquor store, I wish Publix, which has now gotten beyond its Baptist leanings and is now doing liquor stores, would consider adding one downtown. But, one step at a time! Meanwhile, as an actual resident of downtown, all the restaurants and bars are great but being able to buy TP without ever getting in the car, is what really means we have arrived <g>.

Where was the old Rosalind Winn-Dixie?

[eq74]

Where was the old Rosalind Winn-Dixie?

It was a block or two South from where the Embassy Suites is on the corner of Rosalind & Central. If I remember correctly it was raised for more parking for what is now the oldest Capital Plaza building (old Southeast Bank building).

[bulldogger]

The sculpture is one of two things:

a) Tim Burton took up bronze sculpture.

b) Publix is promoting the waify model look.

Either way, it shows a woman walking on the sidewalk. I guess it is promoting walking? She has very long legs and no arms, which appear to be lopped off at the shoulder like a mannequin.

[bandana rocks]

I read this at Orlando Sentinel.

Apparently things are getting bigger; an attorney has filed for a class A action...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/or...0,4553119.story

[prahaboheme]

^sounds like a ploy to get a deposit back, nothing else.

[FLheat]

^sounds like a ploy to get a deposit back, nothing else.

Exactly, I don't like how they have to trash a project just because they feel they are making a bad real estate decision. Had this building been completed two years ago in the inflated market, this would not even be an issue. Why is there no sense of honoring a commitment or personal responsibility. The building inspector is not going sign off if the building is not sound, geez. This is a beautiful project and congratulate ZOM on their efforts to resolve the problem early-on.

[DowntownDarryl]

The sculpture is one of two things:

a) Tim Burton took up bronze sculpture.

b) Publix is promoting the waify model look.

Either way, it shows a woman walking on the sidewalk. I guess it is promoting walking? She has very long legs and no arms, which appear to be lopped off at the shoulder like a mannequin.

Some of the construction workers put a Yellow construction hat on her yesterday..... I can see her with a Santa hat for Christmas, Easter Bonnett for Easter and New Years hat for New Years...