Construction Thread-Orlando-Paramount

[bulldogger]

You would think Burton's would turn into the teacher's lounge. Rough day of dealing with unruly children makes you want to slam back a few.

[spenser1058]

You would think Burton's would turn into the teacher's lounge. Rough day of dealing with unruly children makes you want to slam back a few.

lol- so true. there are some great stories from the old timers who went to OHS about slipping into Burton's after school, and apparently like Wally's on Mills they weren't too vigilant about carding back then.

[reguy]

Does anyone know if they will meet the June 30th deadline...If not I will walk

[bulldogger]

I talked to someone on site a few weeks ago and he said they will finish in June. When asked about the Publix, he said that would obviously take much longer due to buildout, but he did say June for the building. I don't know what that means as far as buildout for individual condo units, though. I didn't buy into it and therefore didn't care to ask about that. I only care about the Publix and the WAMU.

[DowntownDarryl]

I talked to someone on site a few weeks ago and he said they will finish in June. When asked about the Publix, he said that would obviously take much longer due to buildout, but he did say June for the building. I don't know what that means as far as buildout for individual condo units, though. I didn't buy into it and therefore didn't care to ask about that. I only care about the Publix and the WAMU.

I talked with Lynn Anello at ZOM a couple weeks ago and again today. She said they are on schedule for the TCO for June. She also said the Publix will be open approx 6 weeks after they get the regular CO for the building.

[pip]

so does anyone know why the sidewalk in front on Central (that looked finished and was opened and I walked along a week or so ago) was closed and re-fenced off? it seemed to have been re-dug up and is now being re-pavered?

[bulldogger]

I can't say for sure, but there is supposed to be a sculpture out front there by the Publix entrance. I wonder if the original plans didn't call for it and someone forgot to look at the newer plans that do.

[FLheat]

I can't say for sure, but there is supposed to be a sculpture out front there by the Publix entrance. I wonder if the original plans didn't call for it and someone forgot to look at the newer plans that do.

I thought the new buildings were also supposed to have some sort of water feature?

[bulldogger]

You are obviously referring to a water fountain. We use them for drinking, but those are usually inside the stores. </wise remarks>

[spenser1058]

You are obviously referring to a water fountain. We use them for drinking, but those are usually inside the stores. </wise remarks>

Back at the same time that Mayor Bill's administration required something besides a flat roof (resulting in the now infamous visors), there was also a requirement, I believe, for a water feature (Mayor Bill had a love affair going with KC and all its fountains). Either they figured out a way to make those so tiny as to be insignificant in recent buildings, or that requirement got dropped along the way. It would be interesting to know what happened with that as I liked the sudden explosion of fountains we got in the mid-late 1980s.

[FLheat]

You are obviously referring to a water fountain. We use them for drinking, but those are usually inside the stores. </wise remarks>

Maybe they get around that by displaying pallets of Zephyr Hills and Aquafina outside the entrance like they do at the Colonial Store.

[bulldogger]

Or the fountains work on an activation system, triggered by rainstorms.

[nikos z]

Hey everyone,

Here is a link to zoms paramount page that has been updated with new picks and info.

http://zomusa.com/paramount/

-Nikos

[JRS1]

Back at the same time that Mayor Bill's administration required something besides a flat roof (resulting in the now infamous visors), there was also a requirement, I believe, for a water feature (Mayor Bill had a love affair going with KC and all its fountains). Either they figured out a way to make those so tiny as to be insignificant in recent buildings, or that requirement got dropped along the way. It would be interesting to know what happened with that as I liked the sudden explosion of fountains we got in the mid-late 1980s.

yeah, the Signature Plaza plaza reminds me of the Chicago-looking '60's & '70's barren concrete plazas fronting many bldgs built then... just barren.

[spenser1058]

yeah, the Signature Plaza plaza reminds me of the Chicago-looking '60's & '70's barren concrete plazas fronting many bldgs built then... just barren.

You hit the nail on the head on what I think the problem was (is) - concrete. Signature Plaza (Barnett Plaza, originally) was, along with the Atlantic Bank building (now Wachovia at 20 N. Orange), a bit of a test case, and, despite the fountains, I think may have been constructed before the water feature ordinance (going by memory here, so anyone please feel free to correct me). Mayor Bill, along with Jake Stuart and some others (Jake started out with Bill before becoming godfather of the Chamber), met with urban planning poobah William Whyte, who suggested that outdoor plazas where people could gather would return foot traffic downtown (at that point, downtown was all but dead except at night over at Rosie's).

Atlantic Bank came first and Mayor Bill pulled teeth to have the building situated catty-cornered as you see it today.

Next up was Barnett (Signature), and the idea of a much larger plaza was suggested. However, to avoid the lifeless, barren plazas you describe, the idea was that plenty of water and plenty of low-slung concrete walls (which could be used as benches) would make the area user-friendly. Unfortunately, especially, under the Florida sun, too much concrete and too few trees resulted in just another dead zone. I still think it might be saved if they would rip out some concrete, bring in some trees and landscaping and allow some street vendors but give occupancy in that building has been subpar for awhile I'm sure the owner is probably in no mood to spend the money.

[Cleaver5]

Those pics look great. I think that Penthouse pool villa is an awesome idea, but I just wonder if you would like to walk out of your front door to 50 people grilling and laying out by the pool. I think I would, but most people who are going to pay $2 mil might want a little privacy.

Beside Publix and WAMU does anyone know who else might be considering a retail spot. I think there should be 1 or 2 more spots. What about a nice little cafe or local bar type spot. drug store? anyone else have any ideas? seems like they only tenant they can get for these spots are restaurants with trendy one word names (fifis, graze, beacons, etc).

[bulldogger]

Updates on the Paramount... they were working on the sign out front. Just waiting to see the epic letters.

closeup

and a telling sign...

[frankieb96]

uh, opening in september?? wow wonder what the hold up is

last interior i saw of it, it looked like 4-6weeks out to me

[nikos z]

Hey everyone,

Just wondering if anyone has got their financing in order, and if so, what kind of rates are they offering through their recommended lenders?

And any new pics of the west(pool) side and South sides would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

-Nikos

[Camillo Sitte]

Next up was Barnett (Signature), and the idea of a much larger plaza was suggested. However, to avoid the lifeless, barren plazas you describe, the idea was that plenty of water and plenty of low-slung concrete walls (which could be used as benches) would make the area user-friendly. Unfortunately, especially, under the Florida sun, too much concrete and too few trees resulted in just another dead zone. I still think it might be saved if they would rip out some concrete, bring in some trees and landscaping and allow some street vendors but give occupancy in that building has been subpar for awhile I'm sure the owner is probably in no mood to spend the money.

Not quite.

My father had the 12th floor in Barnett Plaza from about a year after it opened until the late 90's.

While no Seagram

[prahaboheme]

Office occupancy in downtown Orlando has increased considerably since the 90s--I don't believe that dead plaza is a microcosm for a non-existent business culture. Rather, bad building management. That plaza is a waste of space at a valuable corner. It should be redeveloped for commercial/retail use, especially considering another plaza will accompany OPAC a block away in the near future.

[JRS1]

^^

I thought the above post from spenser was regarding the Signature Plaza, not The Plaza.

I disagree with camillo's assessment. I'm there everyday for work and those two office buildings are busy with workers and foot traffic. Corona is packed every night-- and not with skateboard punks. neither is Urban Flats. nor is Bento. I'm there from 8:30 am until dark everyday for work and see what's going on I'm not glamorizing either. people walk thru those two buildings constantly. people pull up to Solaire's valet constantly. work trucks load and unload along Court frequently. there is constant activity at Plaza. Salon Elyse even has business, which says alot. People use the Volcano's coffee shop onstantly when it's open. Cold Stone is starting to draw customers. NYPD Pizza and Bola are more than halfway done with buildout too.

and this is all without a cinema to draw people. go to Urban Flats on a Wednesday night... it's a freakin block party there and at Corona.

As for downtown Orlando and how busy it was other than during business hours... all I know is that I was there in the late nineties at night on Orange Ave. when it was bumper to bumper traffic all the way up past Robinson. Sure, druggies, college students, younger folk, average Joes and tourists were all in the mix--- not just skateboard punk and X users.

Even today, Orlando has a huge nightlife scene downtown. Church has always maintained the Makos/Chillers and another half-dozen establishments in that small strip, and the CSS area has 9 places open now without the aid of 55W. that's a big testament to the draw that Church still has and always will have.

I see alot of people going out at night in downtown Orlando-- every night, and they're not all street punks and druggies. not by a long shot. that's just not the case... between Wall Street and Central Ave. and Orange and Church... I mean... how many cities have that many corridors so close together that offer all those going out options? not that many.

The state of downtown Orlando is good right now... and it is steadily improving with every new project and restaurant opening.

[jack]

The problem remains the same today - half-empty building and no one downtown. Yeah, there are a few people browsing for cigars, a few punters having a burrito etc, but save for regular business hours there just still isn't anyone downtown and I for one don't count a bunch of skateboard punks and X-ed out teen poseurs from the sticks "clubbing" and trying to satisfy their munchies a couple nights a week.

You know, it's funny that you mention William Whyte because when you actually watch his films and look at his data you then realize that places like Seagram

[prahaboheme]

^^

I thought the above post from spenser was regarding the Signature Plaza, not The Plaza.

I disagree with camillo's assessment. I'm there everyday for work and those two office buildings are busy with workers and foot traffic. Corona is packed every night-- and not with skateboard punks. neither is Urban Flats. nor is Bento. I'm there from 8:30 am until dark everyday for work and see what's going on I'm not glamorizing either. people walk thru those two buildings constantly. people pull up to Solaire's valet constantly. work trucks load and unload along Court frequently. there is constant activity at Plaza. Salon Elyse even has business, which says alot. People use the Volcano's coffee shop onstantly when it's open. Cold Stone is starting to draw customers. NYPD Pizza and Bola are more than halfway done with buildout too.

and this is all without a cinema to draw people. go to Urban Flats on a Wednesday night... it's a freakin block party there and at Corona.

As for downtown Orlando and how busy it was other than during business hours... all I know is that I was there in the late nineties at night on Orange Ave. when it was bumper to bumper traffic all the way up past Robinson. Sure, druggies, college students, younger folk, average Joes and tourists were all in the mix--- not just skateboard punk and X users.

Even today, Orlando has a huge nightlife scene downtown. Church has always maintained the Makos/Chillers and another half-dozen establishments in that small strip, and the CSS area has 9 places open now without the aid of 55W. that's a big testament to the draw that Church still has and always will have.

I see alot of people going out at night in downtown Orlando-- every night, and they're not all street punks and druggies. not by a long shot. that's just not the case... between Wall Street and Central Ave. and Orange and Church... I mean... how many cities have that many corridors so close together that offer all those going out options? not that many.

The state of downtown Orlando is good right now... and it is steadily improving with every new project and restaurant opening.

He's referring to the dead plaza at the corner of Orange/Church, not the Plaza.

[spenser1058]

He's referring to the dead plaza at the corner of Orange/Church, not the Plaza.

Yes, I'm sort of impressed with the level of activity at Cameron's (well, maybe not anymore) Plaza. As for the timeline, when the initial planning for Barnett (Signature) Plaza was going on, we're talking the early 80's. praha, great insight on the difference in pedestrian traffic levels between Barnett and Seagram's plazas. It makes we wonder though, why Whyte recommended such a design - surely he must have intuited downtown Orlando would not have the requisite traffic levels for decades?

Jack, many thanks for the update on the building's occupancy levels - my understanding was they had gone through some tough sledding over there as Regions moved, but I was apparently in error. Anyway, the plaza still sat unused as of lunch today in the 92 degree heat *sigh*.