28 Story Bldg for Bass, Berry?

[smeagolsfree]

Outside of the lobby for the office tower and garage entrances, the base of the garage is fully wrapped with retail, along Demonbreun, 2nd and 3rd. I am not sure about what is happening along Symphony Place on the north side of the building. I'd love to see a single loaded corridor of apartments above.

Its really funny you mentioned that. At the meet yesterday we brought up the exact same thing and thought it would be really good to have retail wrapped along the entire bottom with living units above as well. Great minds think alike.

I think the project has a few short coming, one being the parking. I would rather see the tower portion in the center and balanced with the rest of the building if they have to build an above ground parking structure. I will reserve any other comments on the way the building may or may not look until I see a more detailed drawing. I think there are many ways to hide a parking structure to make it invisible and I hope that is what they do here.

[Richard Lawson]

Hey guys... Since I talked about the story on News 2 this morning, I moved my story on NashvillePost to free. www.nashvillepost.com The story on the Titans player is free as well.

[Hankster]

Hey guys... Since I talked about the story on News 2 this morning, I moved my story on NashvillePost to free. www.nashvillepost.com The story on the Titans player is free as well.

Thanks, Richard for posting the entire article. Your article had more information about the project than any of the others I read. What do people think the chances of this project are of getting approved at the September 14th meeting. While I'd love to see it, I would expect there will be questions raised and the decision will be delayed.

[Richard Lawson]

Thanks, Richard for posting the entire article. Your article had more information about the project than any of the others I read. What do people think the chances of this project are of getting approved at the September 14th meeting. While I'd love to see it, I would expect there will be questions raised and the decision will be delayed.

I'd say you are correct. As I said on News 2 this morning, this project as well as Westin will likely push downtown planners to rethink the height limitations in that part of downtown. If Barry gets it, they why couldn't Encore add two more floors as originally planned?

[Lexy]

^That's the million dollar question. Would something like that happen??? It isn't too late in the construction phase to add a couple.

[Richard Lawson]

^That's the million dollar question. Would something like that happen??? It isn't too late in the construction phase to add a couple.

Not sure if it's too late. Higher construction costs could be a factor in any decision.

[Richard Lawson]

^That's the million dollar question. Would something like that happen??? It isn't too late in the construction phase to add a couple.

Apparently it might be too late to add the floors since Encore is already on its way. I asked and that was what I was told.

[NewTowner]

Holy smokes, that thing looks like an Air-Freshener! Or maybe it's Gillette's latest "market-oriented" retooling of the Electric Razor? The parking garage looks like a Halloween Prank intended to terrify every civic-minded American this side of MIT. Oops!! And did I mention huge? I can hardly imagine the amount of litigation that will be manufactured in this shiny, PlayStation 2

[titanhog]

Holy smokes, that thing looks like an Air-Freshener! Or maybe it's Gillette's latest "market-oriented" retooling of the Electric Razor? The parking garage looks like a Halloween Prank intended to terrify every civic-minded American this side of MIT. Oops!! And did I mention huge? I can hardly imagine the amount of litigation that will be manufactured in this shiny, PlayStation 2

[samsonh]

I don't think the honor was unwarranted whatsoever.

Would you rather this lot sit vacant for 5,10,15 years or this building be built. I really hope they redesign this, I hate the garage. I would love to see apartments and shops rather than a blank void but I have no voice in it. I hope BBS and the developer build what they want though. And I hope the commission approves it(I think the message sent by denying this project would be devastating to other developers). But as Kheldane said it will be very interestinng to see this and the Westin play out.

[Skyscrapergeek]

Would you rather this lot sit vacant for 5,10,15 years

Because that's exactly what would happen. Good point samsonh.

[smeagolsfree]

Now, Now!

I think NT may just want a larger version of the Parthenon that is 400 feet tall. I think it would work. By the way NT, it would only be 2 stories. You know I am just kidding, but had to take a jab at ya.

I am starting to enjoy the humor here.

I am not a fan of the rendering of what I have seen so far. Maybe they can rework the crown. its just not what I was expecting. I dont think the lot needs to sit vacant for sure. Lets give BBS some time and see what happens.

[NewTowner]

...

I am not a fan of the rendering of what I have seen so far. Maybe they can rework the crown. its just not what I was expecting. I dont think the lot needs to sit vacant for sure. Lets give BBS some time and see what happens.

I think the lot should sit vacant, in anticipation of a better building--although it would make me as antsy and worried as the rest of you. But good things come to those who wait--and neither Rome, nor Nashville, was built in a day. Why the breakneak frenzied pace? Why the reckless support for every project that rears its sweaty brow? Sometimes I think Nashvillians have some sort of Development Complex--a rare disorder that causes them to think that if a project is rejected or comes crashing down, then all is lost: goodbye BBS Tower, goodbye Urban Renaissance! This just isn't the case. Many projects have come and gone without ever a nail being hit, you know...and there were some REAL doozies that tanked, and we should all be thankful today for it. Somehow, Nashville keeps improving. We are still ill, no doubt--but bad medicine is worse than no medicine at all. Good medicine is around the corner if we act prudently and honorably, as the record will show.

I don't think the government should stop BBS for being "ugly", but I do think it should enforce the height limits and demand something less harmful to surrounding property owners than a bloody parking garage. Talk about a party foul! I share some of Kheldane's preferences for citizen-empowerment--I think the city's body politic should make such a stink that Bass, Berry, and SimCity would realize this project could only work in their disfavor if built.

The building is really just shuckster cheapism, in the end--I mean, come on...look at it. It might have passed as "progressive" in Pittsburg, at the very best, in 1984. But it doesn't even have that going for it now. Everton gets a "do-over", or we all get sha-nay-nayed.

Let the lot sit empty for another year or two, rather than have it covered with techno-manure for the next fifty--assuming the Air-Freshener/Alarm Clock's batteries last that long.

[Richard Lawson]

I think the lot should sit vacant, in anticipation of a better building--although it would make me as antsy and worried as the rest of you. But good things come to those who wait--and neither Rome, nor Nashville, was built in a day. Why the breakneak frenzied pace? Why the reckless support for every project that rears its sweaty brow? Sometimes I think Nashvillians have some sort of Development Complex--a rare disorder that causes them to think that if a project is rejected or comes crashing down, then all is lost: goodbye BBS Tower, goodbye Urban Renaissance! This just isn't the case. Many projects have come and gone without ever a nail being hit, you know...and there were some REAL doozies that tanked, and we should all be thankful today for it. Somehow, Nashville keeps improving. We are still ill, no doubt--but bad medicine is worse than no medicine at all. Good medicine is around the corner if we act prudently and honorably, as the record will show.

I don't think the government should stop BBS for being "ugly", but I do think it should enforce the height limits and demand something less harmful to surrounding property owners than a bloody parking garage. Talk about a party foul! I share some of Kheldane's preferences for citizen-empowerment--I think the city's body politic should make such a stink that Bass, Berry, and SimCity would realize this project could only work in their disfavor if built.

The building is really just shuckster cheapism, in the end--I mean, come on...look at it. It might have passed as "progressive" in Pittsburg, at the very best, in 1984. But it doesn't even have that going for it now. Everton gets a "do-over", or we all get sha-nay-nayed.

Let the lot sit empty for another year or two, rather than have it covered with techno-manure for the next fifty--assuming the Air-Freshener/Alarm Clock's batteries last that long.

This is one of your most entertaining posts. And I mean that in a non sarcastic sense. I think I might send Everton and email and get him to put in his two cents here.

[chris holman]

SO-BO tower put on hold

Link:Tennessean

3-month delay will let planners review 220-foot height limit.

[smeagolsfree]

Well Rick Bernhardt seems to be changing his tune some. I find it interesting that this will be revisited and the vision for SOBRO may change. I knew there would be political muscle being flexed over this issue. Too many big names involved here and this may change the tune for the Weston as well. Guess we have a three month wait on our hands.

[ATLBrain]

They know their height limit is unenforceable under existing codes and Constitutional protections. Plus, I'll bet that Tom White has told them as much. So Bernhardt is going back to "review" their 6-month old policy. Don't you just love bureaucrats? As I said on a post weeks ago, they have been challenged by the heavyweights. The result will be "voluntary" height limits.

[NewTowner]

They know their height limit is unenforceable under existing codes and Constitutional protections. Plus, I'll bet that Tom White has told them as much. So Bernhardt is going back to "review" their 6-month old policy. Don't you just love bureaucrats? As I said on a post weeks ago, they have been challenged by the heavyweights. The result will be "voluntary" height limits.

The height limits are totally enforceable and utterly Constitutional. Geez, guys--even New York has laws governing the way in which buildings can be massed as they climb skywards.

Why criticize Bernhardt for a willingness to engage the issue? He is one of the best and brightest city planners in the country! I know that many of you were hoping for another crane-bang ASAP, but please--these things take time. Go easy on our leadership--it has proven itself--and try to be a little more open-minded about the possibility that SoBro might not be the place for a giant air-humidifier/nude parking garage.

[Skyscrapergeek]

and try to be a little more open-minded about the possibility that SoBro might not be the place for a giant air-humidifier/nude parking garage.

NT, with all due and complete respect and no malice intended, this statement reflects one of the reasons why, regrettably, I no longer consider many of your opinions while forming my own. You seem to be saying that the definition of open-mindedness is to adopt the "world according to NewTowner" point of view. Do you allow for the possibility that SoBro might be the place for a "giant air-humidifier/nude parking garage"? I respect your knowledge of architecture, which is greatly superior to mine, however, one can surely disagree on a matter without being guilty of possessing a closed mind or even one that is insufficiently open.

Again, I would like to make it clear, I say none of this in anger. I think we will just have to agree to dis...er...uh...be open-minded enough to be close-minded. After all, my vision of SoBro includes a variety of developments with no restrictions on height or lack there of.

Now as for the three month delay, I'm more than willing to be patient, especially if we abolish these arbitrary height restrictions and get a much taller tower out of it!

[rocky top buzz]

I bet the reason for the 3 month delay is, like many other business dealings, so that both sides can determine how to say they won the fight. BBS doesn't want to look defeated if the height limit is enforced, and Metro doesn't want to look defeated if the height limit is relaxed.

Same as when the NHL strike was over and both the players and owners came out to say their side won.

[NewTowner]

NT, with all due and complete respect and no malice intended, this statement reflects one of the reasons why, regrettably, I no longer consider many of your opinions while forming my own. You seem to be saying that the definition of open-mindedness is to adopt the "world according to NewTowner" point of view.

I definitely do not think that being open-minded requires the adoption of my world-view--and while I can see how the length and breadth of many of my arguments may put you off, I don't think that it is fair for you to suggest that I believe myself to essentially be a demi-god.

You wrote that I "seem to be saying that the definition of open-mindedness is to adopt the 'world according to NewTowner'". For the record, regardless of what it "seems" I am saying, I am actually really very clearly saying that it would be wrong and foolish to hastily dismiss the efforts of respected professionals like Rick Bernhardt, and that it would be childish to discard--without even a cursory sampling of the thoughts behind the issue--the notion that height restrictions serve a real purpose. It could well be, in the end, that height restrictions are stupid and hurtful--but I don't see how the many opponents to height limitations could even know that without looking into the theoretical pros and cons. My point is that skyscraper fans should at least consider the possibility that in SoBro specifically a vision of human-scaled fabric might be conducive to the creation of a public realm worthy of affection and respect, and to the formation of a civic heart that permits our Natural Rights and Constitutional Rights to enjoy the greatest possible amount of leverage.

I could be wrong about everything, you know. I am a classicist, but I often have moments of doubt and my arguments get holes punched in them occasionally. I try to service those holes, or I abandon the argument when it proves untenable--and both of these healthy activities are made less painful by the fact that I try to function on the assumption that I might be wrong in general. There are a lot of very intelligent people who believe I am. But even if I am, I would never be guilty of wanting to "impose" my ideas on others, simply because I do not advocate--nor have I ever advocated--government or personal enforcement of a classical or even decent architectural aesthetic. I believe in freedom, and in public initiative, and in the might and power of the educated individual.

My request for open-mindedness has very little to do with my specific views on architecture and urban design, but a lot to do with my views on reading books, traveling, and having intelligent discussions. I apologize if I have come off as a brute. Sometimes people--particularly Americans--mistake passionate and forceful argument for mean-spiritedness or arrogance. I promise it is my intention to be a helpful person, and not a ding-dong.

[it's just dave]

Doesn't it seem now is the approprate time to discuss and attempt to protect those very parts of SoBro which get very little, if any, attention around here? It seems panties are getting all wadded up because of what in reality is merely a minor extension of the CDB immediately of Broadway. Traveling the streets this morning along Peabody, Lea, and a large portion of the South of Gateway area, it seems that if protections should be sought, this should be going on NOW before the developers catch on to the fact that THIS is the area where these tight, human-scaled pedestrian/retail friendliness should occur. Fighting projects a mere stone's throw from the CBD that will add to the tax base, the daytime and nighttime population, enhance the city's skyline and vibe seems a bit too much too late. Go ahead, fight with the lawyers all you want, but it seems that in true activist sense, it would be more prudent to fight for the sake of the undeveloped areas rather than reacting to something people have dropped millions of dollars into already. These few little blocks where these buildings are proposed is a true drop in the bucket in the SoBro Map. Get off the Westin, Bass, and Encore. Figure out what to do the the other parcels, some of which contain adult businesses. If you're going to fight for something, fight for the land on the hill and to the west where all this brilliance can truly make a difference. How should the pubs look, the bookstores, the cleaners, the vet, the markets, the floral shops, the post office, etc. Screw fighting the goliaths. I want downtown to straddle Broadway in a way that will cup the unique nature of the area inside collective hands of protection. A few economic engines on either side of the Broadway treasure will assure it's continued preservation. A shirt shop next door might not, 150 lawyers will.

NT, I would like to see your talents become more human scaled. Fight for the solutions for this areas yet to be decided upon. Forget whether the cornice or detailing on a $100 million building suits you or not. When it's your $100 million, maybe someone will listen. In the meantime, throw your 50-cents worth of genius into what will be best for the actual neighborhood of SoBro, not the CBD, of which the areas directly off Broad are very much a part. Proaction instead of reaction is a much more intelligent approach to the city's future. Get to it.

[Hankster]

I, for one, am happy that the Planning Commission is going to take some time to review the height limitation that they imposed just six months ago. There is little doubt in my mind that the height limitation will be increased.... hopefully eliminated..... but I don't think (like Dave) the relaxation needs to extend south of Gateway Boulevard. I think that would be enough increase in the size of the CBD to provide the necessary land for the inevitable increase in CBD development the city will experience. It would include land for a highrise convention Hotel to be built should that project go forward. The current height limitations should stay in effect south of Gateway Boulevard, IMO. That area will have lower land values and makes much more sense to develop as a midrise urban community.

[Richard Lawson]

I, for one, am happy that the Planning Commission is going to take some time to review the height limitation that they imposed just six months ago. There is little doubt in my mind that the height limitation will be increased.... hopefully eliminated..... but I don't think (like Dave) the relaxation needs to extend south of Gateway Boulevard. I think that would be enough increase in the size of the CBD to provide the necessary land for the inevitable increase in CBD development the city will experience. It would include land for a highrise convention Hotel to be built should that project go forward. The current height limitations should stay in effect south of Gateway Boulevard, IMO. That area will have lower land values and makes much more sense to develop as a midrise urban community.

I had said on News 2 that this project would force the city to rethink this area again because of the demand for density and height. One of the biggest complaints that folks have had with downtown's office market is that there are large contiguous amounts of space available. It's all scattered around in the 6 million plus square feet. There is a site next to the City Center on which a building could be built. But I think the issue there is getting floor plates that tenants want. As for South of Gateway, I suspect that at some point the height limits increase there too. That just will take some time. But as land values rise from the other it may be necessary. If the convention center is built down, that likely will drive more.

Also, Bass, Berry building's base hasn't been fully designed. There was a lot of talk about the "box," but the initial focus was on the main building.

[Skyscrapergeek]

Fair enough NT. I definitely appreciate your point of view and we more than likely agree on some things as you describe yourself as a classicist. However, while I hope for great things for Nashville, I try to temper my idealism with reality. I of course am speaking only of myself with no implication of you or anyone else. I believe that not only does form follow function but also "will" and the "means". Personally, I greatly appreciate tall buildings. I am fascinated by their ambition, their engineering and construction and most of all their shear boundary-pushing, non-human-scaled proportions.

As I stood on the observation deck of the L&C tower I wondered what all the anti-skyscraper fuss was about. What an amazing and unique perspective of our city. It was truly beautiful. I honestly don't see the need to justify its existence. No matter how many pros and cons are presented, it is a very successful structure in my opinion.

I do not at all mind other opinions, criticisms or especially debate. As I said, I have my own. NT, you and I agree on the Museum "Plaza". I believe it to be quite hideous. I'm sure we also agree that it is Louisville's hideous building to erect and we have no right to prevent them from doing so.

Where we might disagree the most is about the seriousness of the subject matter. This is your chosen field and is understandably important to you as it should be. This, for me, is obviously a mere hobby as my education was focused elsewhere. I do care tremendously for the growth and well-being of our city. I have also grown to appreciate this forum as a place of learning but as soon as it becomes a situation with an inflexible set of opinions that exclude my interests or label them as unjustified, it will cease to be educational and fun.

Maybe I am just a skyscraper fan boi or whatever that bizarre label is. (I'm not saying you called me that or that is your opinion NewTowner) Tolerance is a fickle thing huh?

So, before this post reaches NewTowner length, I will just say this: If I had a half billion dollars to invest, I would buy a lot and build my own insanely tall skyscraper with a jack-in-the-box on top (not the restaurant but an actual huge jack-in-the-box that played "Pop Goes the Weasel") and the only reason I would need would be that I wanted to.

PS. NewTowner, in all seriousness, I will try my best to learn all I can from you without offense. I do indeed believe you are invaluable to this forum even if and when I think you are being a "ding-dong".