Westin on Lower Broad

[doormanpoet]

I was being a bit facetious, if not overly dramatic, but my point was that the focus should not be about preserving "honky tonks" but preserving architecture. Remember, I work in the hotel business and I hear a lot of negative if not degradating remarks about the "cheesy and gouche" aspects of downtown on Lower Broadway.

My hotel is about to spend 6.1 million dollars on just the entrance. The new owners are considering another 25-31 story tower, and possibly buying the convention center if the city builds a new one. The clientele of the future wants the best. They want a Lower Broadway that represents the upwardly mobile lifestyle. A lifestyle of success and accomplishment. They want their after hours entertainment and dining to reflect that.

Although we are a convention hotel and we get the lower income clientele, we also have clientele that want upscale dining, entertainment, and shops. They do not want what Lower Broadway has to offer. My African American clientele of the last two weeks were not too enthusiastic about what Lower Broadway had to offer including the confederate flags that adorned not only patrons of those establishments, but the walls of some of the businesses.

Obviously I do appreciate the tourism, but at what expense to our national reputation? Must we constantly highlight Tootsies when we are on national television? I may be the lone liberal here, but we must as a community take a look at the big picture and look at the future of Nashville. Our downtown hotels cannot continue to give rooms away at $50 a night to CMA Musicfest patrons. We cannot keep attracting conventions that barely pay the bills.

Many high tech industries do not want to host conventions in Music City, they want those coffee shops in Seattle, the art culture of Santa Fe and Scottsdale, and the upscale business community of Charlotte.

I apologize if I offended anyone, sometimes I can be very passionate about my ideas, but its time for Nashville to grow up. I said to keep Tootsies and maybe one other club, but the current offerings of gift shops and wares does not satisfy the clientele of my property or many others, that is why they all take a cab to Green Hills Mall.

The city as a whole makes money off of the tourist trade mainly in sales and occupancy taxes, but individual hotel properties lose money. That is right, lose money. Hotels lose money when they have to discount rates.

Visitors of Nashville are becoming more diverse and international. They are not and never have been country music fans. They do not spend money on Lower Broadway.

I do not want to see this city throw away $200 million dollars in capital investment just to satisfy the cities need to preserve nostalgia on Lower Broadway. If Nashville wants to be a player, it needs to grow up. Remember, country music is not culture, it is a product we export. Many people still see Nashville as "cheesy and gouche" because of the Hee Haw image of Lower Broadway. I am just fighting for Nashville to finnally have some dignity on Lower Broadway, and the Westin is that dignity, even if it is at the expense of some part of our past which in my opinion does not need to be preserved.

[Skyscrapergeek]

dm, I appreciate your position in the hotel industry and your passion for Nashville's success but I have to completely disagree with you. As others have stated, removing the honkey tonk out of lower broad would be a huge mistake. Other cities would KILL for the branding we have. Besides, that is what Nashville is PLUS a lot of other very cool things and that's what is so surprising to visitors when they get here. Nashville has way more to offer than the expected. To rip all of that out of Nashville's fabric would make us just like every other city with coffee shops and art galleries. Look at Louisville. As nice as that city is, they'll be the first to admit their difficulty in finding their brand to promote. That is not a slam on Louisville btw. My point is, we have built-in, world-wide name recognition. It would cost Nashville way more than any benefit we'd achieve by appeasing a few country-haters.

In the end it doesn't matter anyway. Nashville's brand is what it is and it's not going to change. Besides, I like where we're headed. Think about it. Signature Tower a block away from Tootsie's! How crazy is that? I love it!

It'll be OK dm. You can at least enjoy the fact that Nashville still votes Democrat. However, that WILL change if tistic, smeaglesfree and I have anything to say about it.

Hope to see you Saturday!

[titanhog]

Doorman...I agree on one thing...we shouldn't have the Confederate Flags in any windows DT. That just lacks class. We should let the Civil War slogans remain only in our historic places that symbolize the bloodshed.

But...I say we ADD to the live music joints on LoBro...not take away. I'm a Country fan because I make my living in Country music, and I tend to like a great deal of the music. It is purely American Music, and purely Nashville Music. I dont' think we have to have all Honky Tonks. Country Music is actually very little "honky tonk" music today. I would love to have all types of live music joints...jazz, blues, acoustic rock, etc...but the Nashville Honky Tonk still has to be front and center. There's also enough room DT to have your coffee houses, galleries, shops, etc...but keep the Honly Tonks.

[linclink]

As a person who has been to Nashville a few times as a tourists.. and who is planning (ever so long) to move to Nashville... I think I can give somewhat of an outsiders view, without the emotional attatchments that the "natives" will naturaly have.

Even though I am not a country music fan, I can certainly appreciate that Country Music is a part of Nashvilles fabric (though, since my husbands dream is to make it as a CCM songwriter, to me Nashville is Christian Music first, Country music second, since pretty much, ALLLLL of Christian music comes out of Nashville, and Country music comes from Nashville, as well as other places). But I know thats just me (and CCM fans in general).

However, I agree that Country music should not be eliminated from Lower Broad. However, I DO think that the architecture can be improved on. The look of lower broad is one that perpetuates (in my humble opinion, don't want to step on any toes) the stereotype that people who like country music are poor, drunk, and "seedy" (a better word eludes me right now). The area looks very bad. It is not something that I as a tourist appreciate. And since country music lovers are NOT poor, drunk and seedy, I doubt that it is a look they appreciate either. It just looks rundown, and I don't think thats an image Nashville should preserve. When we were there, our impression (and that of friends who made the trip with us) was, "this is a great town, too bad no one takes the time and care to keep it up". We had coversations about the great potential, and how said it was that it had been virtually "abandoned". Little did I know that was the "look" folks were going for.

So, I agree with the Doorman. The architecture NEEDS To be improved. And with this project, they can keep their historical buildings (but PLEASE take off the Barn siding!!!!!! A barn belongs on a farm.. NOT in downtown!!!!), they can add a great looking hotel to the top, AND they can have other developments come in that preserve the look of the historical buildings at street level, but that add to it. There can be more bars, cafes (with outdoor music, hopefully), shops, and even western art galleries, but just better looking. Just because its country doesn't mean it has to look bad.

Well, thats the opinion of an unbiased "tourist" (by the way, next time I'm there I'll try hard to look less like one... hehehehehehe). Keep the music... loose the "look". And while you're at it... I have tons of friends who have family who have expressed interest in vacationing in Nashville... but when they learn that there are no themeparks for the kids... they all decide not to come. So my suggestion to Nashville (again as a "tourist) would be... keep the things that have made and continue to make nashville great, improve and remove the things that make it look less than... and add a THEME PARK for the kids!!!!!!

[Richard Lawson]

Hey guys I posted a story yesterday on the tweaked design but we had some trouble getting an image on the site. I wish the image could run bigger. We are working on creating a link so all of the images can be viewed.

http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2006/6/2..._westin_tweaked

[ATLBrain]

Linklinc, I was down in your neighborhood last week. I stayed at the Westin in H'wood and travelled up to FTL to kick around. I have always loved FTL, and it's even better looking now than when I was last there 8 years ago. Of course, my wife wanted to visit the shops of Las Olas, where everything is marked up 300% or more. Yikes, thank goodness I talked her out of the $25 highballs (that's per glass).

My question is about one of the big towers u/c on the A1A strip. I don't remember the old deco-style building from previous years, but now that the big tower is going up, it appears to be getting a new life as part of the development. It's white with blue trim. What is that old building? I'd say it's about 1920s vintage. It looks like it will be really cool.

One downside to the new development is that many of the restaurants that were on the fronts (like porches) that came in back in the early 90s are now gone b/c their old buildings are gone.

[linclink]

Hey ATLBrain!!!

I'm trying to figure out what building you're talking about... There is SOOO much construction going on down here... its hard to know exactly which building you are talking about. Also, how many stories (about) is the old tower? Also... are you sure it was in fort lauderdale? Cause as you go down the A1A strip, it quickly becomes Lauderdale by the sea, then pompano, deerfield, etc... So, if you could give me some more info about the surrounding area... it'll be easier for me to figure out where the new tower is, then I can get info on the old tower. Also, if you go to http://www.andyweiser.com/newcon.htm they show all the new condo's that are going to be going up, if you see the new tower there, let me know which one it is!!

As for Las Olas, I love it. All the stores, and art galleries. Not to mention the great restaurants!! IF you had told me you'd be at Las Olas I would have recommended you get lunch at Chimas, (GREAT Brazilian steakhouse!!) Anyways, it is a GREAT place to walk and window shop... but other than that... forget it!! I went there before getting married and almost ended up with a 3,000 wedding dress!!! They even offered to make a payment plan for me... had to keep telling myself to breath and "walk away from the store".... hehehehe... my husband is SOOOOO lucky I'm a tightwad... hahahahahahah....

Anyways, Ft. Lauderdale is turning into quite a beautiful town. However, I agree 100% with you about the great old buildings and storefronts that have been lost. But the new plans that were unveiled by the design commision, (which the city commision and mayor fully back) is really great, and I think will make a big difference in preserving whats left. By the way, next time you're down in FTL take the Water Taxi (waterbus). Ride it all the way to downtown and you'll see alot of old houses and buildings with porchfront restaurants sitting next to 40 story buildings, all facing the river. It is a great juxtaposition of old and new Ft. Laud., and should not be missed!!

Anyways... as soon as I figure out what building you are refering to I'll get some info on it for you!!!

[smeagolsfree]

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cf...p;news_id=50592

I will be interested to see what the rendering updates from this morning's MDHA hearing on this issue will be. I guess the Westin will be adressing 2nd instead of Broadway since the developers are quoted as saying that they are not disrupting the historic buildings at all?

Just to let everyone know what happened at the MDHA meeting. It was deferred till I think July and to the Nashville Civic Design review for public debate. I agree with some things being sent to the NCDC but sometimes you have to ask when is too much. If everything gets sent there , why not go there to begin with. Seems as if a lot of projects get slowed down or scaled back. I dont know if this is a good thing or bad.

[Richard Lawson]

Just to let everyone know what happened at the MDHA meeting. It was deferred till I think July and to the Nashville Civic Design review for public debate. I agree with some things being sent to the NCDC but sometimes you have to ask when is too much. If everything gets sent there , why not go there to begin with. Seems as if a lot of projects get slowed down or scaled back. I dont know if this is a good thing or bad.

I provided a link to NashvillePost.com which explains things I think

[smeagolsfree]

I provided a link to NashvillePost.com which explains things I think

The only link I saw was the one earlier today and you had to be a subscriber to read it. I was trying to recall from memory what I saw on Channel 5. Hopefully you will be able to paraphrase better than me.

[ATLBrain]

Thanks Linclink for the link-link (ha ha). Pulled up the Andy Weiser page and there she was... the Las Olas Beach Club. It is a 29 story condo tower built around the old Lauderdale Beach Hotel built in 1936. The building is a gem, but I had never noticed it before. I'm sure the reason was that the front was covered by ticky-tacky souvenir shops and bars and the continuity of the original building was obscured. It's similar to the deco hotels built down at Miami Beach (BTW I saw a stunning old hotel that may be about to get renovated down there... it's the Ritz Plaza at the corner of Collins and Lincoln (?)).

Anyway, I was down there for a golfing excursion with my wife and two other couples. We stopped at that Crab House restaurant for drinks, but left when my wife saw a rat running out of the construction zone of this new condo. It's right across the street.

http://www.andyweiser.com/newcon/la_beachclub.htm

One more thing I'm wondering about. With the new design regs, will the Elbo Room be protected from demolition... it's so dumpy, but it's such a landmark.

[ATLBrain]

Oh, and one more thing. Are you familiar with the Westin at Hollywood? It's quite a striking building... 36 stories with the two wings at the top and the 5-story hole above the service levels. Plus, there's a new condo going up next door that looks like a cruise liner.

[Hankster]

Hey guys I posted a story yesterday on the tweaked design but we had some trouble getting an image on the site. I wish the image could run bigger. We are working on creating a link so all of the images can be viewed.

http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2006/6/2..._westin_tweaked

I really like what I see in the tweaked version. Let's build this thing!

[Skyscrapergeek]

Come on up Hankster. You and I will get started.

Btw, are you coming up this weekend?

[Hankster]

Come on up Hankster. You and I will get started.

Btw, are you coming up this weekend?

I'm still not sure. I may have to miss this one. If I do, I will make a concerted effort to make the August meeting. After all, that's the one where I will be telling everyone about the Chattanooga forum meet that will be held the following weekend on August 13th.

[doormanpoet]

A lot of people at my hotel are very nervous about this project as are they about all of the other large hotel projects.

I really hope this happens, but I wish it were next to my hotel on the empty parking lot behind Hume Fogg High School. No word in a while on the Hume Fogg Gymnasium to go up behind the school on 8th.

[Guest]

Metro Schools are having a hard time getting the funds. It is hard to justify such an expensive expenditure for athletics when the budgets for academics have been so tight.

[doormanpoet]

Plus with no athletic tradition, I wonder if it is really necessary. People do not go to Hume Foog for sports anyway.

[jcoop]

oh good this is something I can have a big say in being a Hume-Fogg alum...

The gym will happen, all plans have been finalized and they will get the funds, I really believe that. Now I do resent that about comment about no athletic tradition. First of all, the school is extremely competitive in sports and if anything, it is being held back because of the gym situation. Unfortunately, a gym being built would not help the track team, soccer team, tennis team, football team (oops, got carried away)...but, it will be nice to have a full size place for our basketball team to practice and play as well as serve as a future tournament site for Hume-Fogg's district.

Now as far as the construction goes, while speaking to Mr. Ward (the former principal as of this year due to health problems), the gym will sit where the D'Cache building used to sit (now temporary parking for teachers who used to have to park across from the hotel in the garage). It will extend over into the area along 8th Ave and block off the alley. The space that is already part of the school is just a covering over part of the basement that is not in use. It leaks and homeless people break in all the time and are found down there...Since it already goes underground, the plans call for this to be turned into underground parking. It will be just enough to provide parking for all faculty during school hours and probably just for those special people during events at the gym. All others will have to pay for the lot behind the school. The gym will be built to provide enough seating for tournaments to be held there.

Anyways, the school does need this and I think it would have possibly been started by now if it hadn't been for the delays caused by the owner of the D'Cache building. I'd be happy to help answer any other questions or comments about HFA...

[frankliner]

i think the fact that the Hume Fogg gym has gotten so far along is indicative of a much greater positive trend. The fact that the School Board seems to be committed to keeping a downtown high school in Nashville. There are alot of cities around the country where you cannot find that asset. I personally would like to see an elementary/middle school built in the DT area to further facilitate an urban community network there. I know the Nashville Downtown Partnership lists this as one of their goals and I think the Design Center is in favour of it too.

[doormanpoet]

No disrespect intended, but everyone I know knows Hume Fogg as an academic institution.

[doormanpoet]

Back on the topic at hand, I think the Westin will happen somewhere in Sobro. Nashville needs a new hotel in downtown.

The Double Tree opened in 1977

The Sheraton in 1975

The Renaissance in 1987

The Hilton early 2000's

We need another large hotel downtown just to make hotels more competitive and to get these big 4 out of complacency. My hotel is in no hurray to do much needed renovations on the lobby, front drive, and exterior. If the Westin is a go, believe me they will make the necessary improvements sooner than later.

The Federal Courthouse if ever built will bring an additional 2000 people a day in downtown as it will be a regional facility bringing more business to downtown. We need another lagre hotel. Small boutique hotels are fine, but the nicer the hotels, the more people we get downtown.

[jice]

^ Does the new Hampton not count? How will this affect the chances for Westin?

[bnaflyer]

The Federal Courthouse if ever built will bring an additional 2000 people a day in downtown as it will be a regional facility bringing more business to downtown. We need another lagre hotel. Small boutique hotels are fine, but the nicer the hotels, the more people we get downtown.

Are you sure about this? There is currently a federal courthouse on Broadway--won't this just relocate the same people to a new facility? (I know that the courts will be the same--I'm not sure exactly what other offices are relocating.)

(By the way, I agree that another downtown hotel would be a good thing, although the renovation of the Hermitage a few years ago was so extensive I think it amounted to an effectively "new" hotel--and a great one at that. But it's relatively small.)

^ Does the new Hampton not count? How will this affect the chances for Westin?

The Hampton isn't a full service hotel and so isn't in the same category as a Westin. While I'm sure there is some overlap in clientele, the market for each is very different.

[Hankster]

Although I have my doubts, I'd love to see the Westin project as envisioned get approved. If they fail to get approval at that site, does anyone on the forum think Westin would immediately begin looking for another site in downtown Nashville?